Here is the result of some humans who thought it would be a good idea to let 2 different breeds breed, Jack (little legs) was found in a box on the street aged about 6 wks old, dont know if the person who bred his mother left him there or if someone bought him then decided they didnt want him, i got him a wk after he was found, he will be 8 yrs old next month, my other dog Charlie is a whippet x poodle ,i got him via a rescue, he was aged 13 months old when i got him and are his 4th owner !!!!!! so i am really against people x breeding, the rescues are full to bursting,

 

I get so depressed at the number of people who think it's fine to just chuck two dogs together so they can then sell 'cute' puppies.

So yes, my posts probably are a bit harsh - but if dog lovers aren't going to speak up passionately for responsible breeding, who the hell will

 

it may not be against the law to breed but it should be. In my own opinion unless you are a licenced breeder they should be fined and fined heavily for having an unspayed female and breed any time you want. Hit them in the pocketbook thats all some people understand.

The laws have to change, dogs should no longer be considered property to do with what you will, they are living breathing creatures with feelings. They need to stop thinking of them as property like a stove or frige to be tossed aside and thrown out because their "owner' tires of them.

I know I can't save them all, much as I wish I could but I will keep trying to save as many as I can. BE it with trying to educate the ones that think they know it all to pulling one from a kill shelter and finding it a good home myself. I do what I can.

I once took a shepherd that the owner was going to shoot, poor thing had been kept caged for 18 months, I took her, fattened her up, had her groomed and vetted and spent hours and hours teaching her how to be just a dog. Unfortunately my time with her was short, she died of cancer a couple of years after I took her. But I don't regret it, If I never accomplish anything else in my lifetime I know I saved at least one.

 

I do think there is a place for breeding, I would hate to see our endangered breeds disappear or ethical breeders bullied to leave breeding and it be left only to the money makers and the idiots.
However if it is getting to the point where you are considering the best stud for a bitch surely it has to be a bit more consideration than a friend down the road.
If you are at that point very little of this info should be news, same with buying a dog, sadly I do think things need to change. People should have easy access to good information not the same old rubbish when they are thinking of getting a puppy and then the dangers and information when they come to the vets (if they do:rolleyes5 to check the bitch is ready to mate.
I wish I knew 13 reliable people who wanted a dog, sadly I know many more dogs I would love to help find homes for.

 

My son has been talking about getting a puppy so I suggested that he tried looking on some of the rescue sites in our part of the world "but they are all older dogs they don't have puppies" he said so I promptly showed him 3 sites in South Wales that had full litters of puppies from irresponsible people that had let their dogs mate and could not sell the pups so just shoved them in a shelter for it to be their responsibility to re-home them he was astounded and quite upset by the animals that he saw on these sites he was just not aware just how bad it was as is the same for many , many people, good news he is now going to get a young rescue dog not nesassarily a pup

 

I don't want to be licensed, if I choose to breed on from my youngsters, I want to be able to make the decisions about the health tests I feel are important, and relevant to the breed. I would however, like to see the law changed so that all dogs have to be sold under contract and the breeder remains responsible for the life of that animal, to ensure they stay in a good home, or they take them back themselves.

 

Another thread from a dog owner without a clue who's just after making a few quid from crossing two dogs, probably giving it a daft new breed name and charging twice the amount... clearly!

If I offend tough

 

Interesting the way the OP says "up to 13 puppies" as though they've already worked out how much they can sell them for. Nice little earner . OP doesn't say whether they're giving the puppies away or selling them but I imagine the answer is fairly obvious.

There are a couple of these "breeders" near me who have the mom and dad and are breeding them and a few have gone to local people. It's extremely doubtful whether they know exactly what they are doing or having them health tested. One person has two from the same "breeder" so has two sisters but from different litters, and from the ages of the dogs the second litter must have come from the mother's next season!

Another one decided it would be nice for her bitch to have a litter before she was spayed, and the guy up the road just happened to have an entire male of the same breed. Fortunately there were a very small number of puppies and they have gone to local homes.

I honestly don't know how it's possible to educate these people :nonod:

 

All pups should be microchipped before going to new homes, that way if something happens and the dog is lost or put in a shelter they will be scanned and the original breeder would have the opportunity to get them back

Selling with a contract is also a good idea only thing with that is how do you know if the contract is being honored. The person could move away and you'd loose contact with them and have no way of knowing whats happened to the pup.

 

All pups should be microchipped before going to new homes, that way if something happens and the dog is lost or put in a shelter they will be scanned and the original breeder would have the opportunity to get them back

Selling with a contract is also a good idea only thing with that is how do you know if the contract is being honored. The person could move away and you'd loose contact with them and have no way of knowing whats happened to the pup.

I don't understand exactly what you mean by this? My puppy is micro chipped, and that chip is registered to me, not his breeder. If he was lost or stolen then I'd want him returning to me, not to the breeder. Or did you mean that both the owner and the breeders details would be registered, so the breeder would only be contracted if the owner couldn't be traced?

 

I don't understand exactly what you by this. My puppy is micro chipped, and that chip is registered to me, not his breeder. If he was lost or stolen then I'd want him returning to me, not to the breeder. Or did you mean that both the owner and the breeders details would be registered, so the breeder would only be contracted if the owner couldn't be traced?

The latter - I think every breeder should also be registered along with owner details, so that if the dog is ever lost, or homeless, rather than go into rescue, they should become the responsibility of the person who bred them.

 

Register the chip to the owner but have the breeder as a contact person in case the owner can't be found

 

Register the chip to the owner but have the breeder as a contact person in case the owner can't be found

Thank you for clarifying. I think that would be a very sensible idea, especially when combined with the compulsory micro chipping that way are getting soon anyway.

 

Yes we got them checked by the vet in the view to breed them.
My dog is a spaniel her dog is a poodle.

The up to 13 puppies will go to family and friends and we both want to keep a puppy. We both would love another dog and as our dogs are getting on so well and we do believe the puppies would be of lovely temperament and character and we have so many family and friends who would love to have a dog from the union we decided to try and breed them.
This is not just a quick decision as she had two seasons since we/the dogs are friends and did not go ahead at her last season as we have not had it properly planned out (vet checks, enough homes lined up etc.)

And no neither of our dogs have been bread before as we are dog owners and lovers not "breeders" as in trying to get out as many dogs as possible of our dogs.

Since both of the dogs are "virgins" it may take them longer to figure out how to do "the deed" successfully.

Generally, there is the notion that a dog "performs" better on his own home turf instead of being sent away. Which is why usually the bitch visits, or goes to stay with, the sire instead of the other way around.

Please be sure that you & your friend have an iron clad agreement and contingency plan in terms of expenses and care for resulting puppies. Starting from how and who will hand-rear the pups should something happen to the dam, to who has how much input when it comes to select the most suitable future owners....and who has the most suitable environment to home any remaining pups. Strong and longlasting friendships have dissolved over MUCH lesser issues than the aforementiined.

Be sure to have discussed, in detail, the mundane and practical yet vital, and often non-considered, aspects of rearing a litter. Just one example: it is hard to fathom how noisy a bunch of puppies are. In the house and later outside. As adorable as 4 - 8 week old pups are....they are an EXCEPTIONALLY vocal bunch. Not an issue if one lives surrounded by nature, has a farm or acres of private land. DEFINITELY an issue when flanked by close neighbours.

In essence - do you, and more importantly your friend whose litter it will be as she owns the female, have the space, the money, the time AND the commitment?

If the answer to ANY of it is " actually no", fetch your boy back. If it is a resounding "yes" to all, see whether bringing both back to his home will make a difference to e mating success.

All the best...whatever you decide

 

the obvious [not-so obvious, to some]:

* the OP & the opp-sex owner each want ONE pup.
That leaves however-many others in the litter, unclaimed.

* Saying, "oh, we'd LOVE one of those pups!..." isn't signing a contract & paying a deposit.
Such a claim is a piecrust promise - easily made, but even easier broken.

* Even if every prospective puppy-buyer actually follows thru, a dog's average lifespan is 10 to 12-yrs.
In that time, many things can happen, & those pups, now grown & no longer adorable infants, may be
homeless; is the breeder willing to take them in, even if only whilst looking for another good home?

Here are the things we haven't mentioned:

- cost:
if things go pear-shaped, an emergency C-section starts at $1200-USA & goes up.
That doesn't include antibiotics, pain control, blood tests prior to surgery, oxytocin
[often given in an attempt to stimulate uterine contractions], IV-fluids, or any complications.

Food:
Bitches in the final trimester consume 1/3 more food than they do outside of pregnancy,
& because of the need for caloric density, by day-30 they should be transitioned onto
a good-quality PUPPY food, which has more protein, fat, & calories per ounce than adult-dog food.

By weeks 4 & 5, the bitch is eating HALF AGAIN her usual calories - of a good quality puppy-food.
Such foods are not cheap, but poor-quality adult-food requires her to eat so much, she couldn't
consume enuf to meet her own needs, plus the growing pup's demands on her for milk.

Vet care for the pups:
Every pup should go to the vet's for an exam within 48-hours of birth, along with Mum-dog.
They are checked for umbilical or other hernias, palate issues, any fading symptoms,
normal wt-gain, neural signs, eye or other congenital issues, etc. Mum-dog is checked for
any retained placentae, vital signs, milk flow, any symptoms of mastitis, etc.

By 6 to 8-WO, pups should be vaxed against distemper & Parvo - anything else can wait.

Stuff to buy:
- 1st Aid Kit; make up a basic one, average totals around $50.
One must: A TEMP PROBE for taking rectals! - plus sandwich-bags, as disposable covers.

- Whelping kit: dental floss to tie-off umbilicals,
S/S scissors that can be sanitized,
absorbent rags the dam can rip while nesting,
inexpensive washable vet-fleece pads for the litter's bedding,
a whelping box or kiddy wading pool for litter & mum,
a RAIL for larger breeds to prevent Mum-dog lying on & smothering a neonate
[the pups can roll or crawl under it, where Mum won't squush them];
a heat-lamp of the radiant kind for the 1st week, to prevent chilling;
scented housetraining-pads for the pups after week-4, indoors.

TIME COMMITMENTS:
- early neuro-stimulation: Simple & quick, about 30-seconds per puppy every day,
from day-14 to day-35; it has brain, body, & behavior benefits for life.

- enrichment:
Stuff to explore - substrates, obstacles, textures, odors, sights, sounds, challenges, etc.
Fetch & tug games, apropos to the pup's age & co-ordination. Agility obstacles.

- Habituation:
Household sounds & sights - microwave beeps, vacuum cleaner, garbage disposal, dishwasher,
clothes washer, doorbell, door knocks, ceiling fans, TV, computer, mobile phone...
Outdoor sounds & sights - traffic, pedestrians, bikes, diesel engines, trains, planes, wildlife,
livestock, other dogs, roaming cats, umbrellas, running kids, noisy recess yards, joggers...

- Socialization:
A well-socialized pup should meet a minimum of 100 friendly strangers before they
are 12-WO, who should be widely varied - NOT all like the breeder & their family. Ethnic, color,
language, diet, able / disabled, old / young, short / tall, fasttalking & noisy, slow & quiet, etc.
They should also meet other dogs than Mum, at least a few other pet-species [a cat who's not
afraid of dogs while the pup is HELD for safety; a sturdy pocket-pet, if the pups aren't terriers
or other varmint specialists - Schnauzers, etc], & so on.
Children are very different from grown-ups, & should be on the list; a crying infant, a shrieking
toddler, shouting 9-YOs, & so on.

- Early introduction to handling -
trimming baby-claws with human nail-clippers or cat-claw scissors;
examine ears, eyes, mouth / teeth, skin [parting hair], butt [for diarrhea or irritation],
take pulse at femoral artery, pick up & hold paw [each in turn], roll gently onto back
& examine tummy, comb & / or brush, BATHE, make scissoring noises without cutting hair
but with the scissors' vibrations felt by the dog, run clippers over the body WITHOUT
actually clipping hair [vibration & noise], etc, etc.

- Early "training" -
teaching all pups to 'come' with a simple, happy, "Puppy, come!",
and NO, repeat NO bad consequences or associations, is a fantastic, easy foundation.
'Sit' by luring a pup's head up & back with a treat overhead, & 'Down' by moving a lure
straight down between forepaws, then directly away along the floor, is also easy.

Cleaning up:
Not one person mentioned that rearing a litter means clearing away the mess of birth
[soggy old towels & other rags, proper towels used to dry newborns], & then 2-months
of laundry & house-cleaning: washable bedding of vet-fleece that lines the bitch's nest
for the litter, the bitch's bowls, possible diarrhea after she eats 1 to 2 placentae -
good for contracting her uterus & stopping bleeding, plus kick-starting her milk-flow,
but often tripping a bowel-cleansing for a day or so;
PUPPY WASTE starting as soon as the litter begins to sample solid-food as more than
a 'taste' - when they switch from breast-milk-only to over 1/4th solid-food, Mum-dog
will quit EATING pups' urine & feces, which puts clean-up squarely on the owner for
the next THREE WEEKS, from approx 5-WO to 8-WO when the pups are ready to leave -
Between 5-WO & 8-WO, pups have only 21-days to actively play with their sibs & dam,
& learn all their dog social-skills which are crucial, as well as BITE INHIBITION.
Dumping a 5 to 6-WO pup in a buyer's arms because 's/he's already weaned' is pure
unmitigated b*llsh!t, as Mum isn't just a milk-bar, she's a role-model & a teacher,
& Active Play can only begin when pups are off their bellies & no longer crawling.

Novice & back-yard breeders are notorious for sending pups away too soon, because
cleaning up pee & poop from 3 to 14 puppies is a pain in their a$$es & they don't
enjoy this part of rearing pups. That's too bl**dy bad -grow up & deal. The pups need
TIME to become normal dogs, & those 21-days of precious interaction are the basis
for the rest of their LIVES, in their relations with other dogs, & their ability to inhibit
their BITE - a skill that literally means life or death.

Still want to breed that litter?...
Spend all the money to test both parents before breeding,
more money to provide high-quality concentrated puppy-food to the dam BEFORE whelping,
& for 3 to 4 weeks [weeks ~5 to 8] to the whole litter, buy a flying-saucer or 2 to serve meals
for the 1st week, then buy INDIVIDUAL BOWLS for every pup to be used & washed for each
meal, for weeks 6 thru 8, so they don't learn to quarrel & fight over food, or guard it?

Still want to spend 3 to 4 weeks cleaning-up after pee & poop from however-many pups?
Carting them to the vet for their 24- to 48-hr exam with the mum, & again around 6 to 8-WO
for their initial vax [distemper & Parvo]?

Carrying them around to see, hear, smell things, meet ppl, get used to traffic?...

be awakened irregularly by a mum-dog with a massive belly, who's gotta go NOW, cuz her
pregnancy takes up most of her abdomen, & she has no room for her own urine & BM?

Spend 8 weeks, caring for, cleaning-up puppy bodies & faces, rolling up poopy pup-pads,
stuffing the trash with stinky pee-pads, pick up poop from the horde [mum & all] in Ur garden
from week 5 or so thru week-8 & day 56?...

And on day-56 or soon thereafter, say good-bye to those babies, knowing that they may
come back to haunt U at any time over the next 10-years or so, if some disaster occurs?

Are U going to be proud of the job U did, & welcome home any pup of Ur breeding,
or sorry U wasted the time & effort for so little payback, & tell owners who can't keep
their pup later in life, "Too bad, that's what shelters are for..." ?

Rearing a litter is a serious thing; there's joy, yes, but it's not simple or easy.
Bunging 2 dogs together when the bitch is in heat is the very least of it!
.
.

 

I don't want to be licensed, if I choose to breed on from my youngsters, I want to be able to make the decisions about the health tests I feel are important, and relevant to the breed. I would however, like to see the law changed so that all dogs have to be sold under contract and the breeder remains responsible for the life of that animal, to ensure they stay in a good home, or they take them back themselves.

It's probably sadly unworkable, but wouldn't it be wonderful if more people had to by law take responsibility for their breeding, it would stamp out a lot of the BYBs straight away!

 

All pups should be microchipped before going to new homes,
that way if something happens and the dog is lost or put in a shelter they will be scanned
and the original breeder would have the opportunity to get them back.

only if that breeder REGISTERS the chip, & puts themselves down as primary contact,
then adds the buyer as SECONDARY contact.

If the chip is registered only to the owner, or worse yet, NEVER registered, it does nothing
to notify the breeder, or the owner - an unregistered chip can only be traced as far as the vet
who buys it, & not to the dog that it was inserted into.

If the buyer is the primary contact, U'll never hear a thing if the dog is lost, stolen, or surrendered.

I did that with the '$300 stray-cat' that i gave to Va Beach Cat Rescue to be homed:
put my contact-info on the chip, so that if she was allowed to roam & picked-up, i'd be notified.

Selling with a contract is also a good idea, only... how do you know if the contract is being honored.
The person could move away & you'd loose contact... & have no way of knowing what's happened
to the pup.

Electronic media are better than physical addresses for long-term connection -
e-mail, cell-phone, Facebook, etc, as well as land-line if any, & street address.

For long-term contact, it has to be cordial - U can't be an adversary
or rude & critical, & expect to be treated like an auntie to the dog!

Offer help, not just criticism. Make suggestions ahead of need - such as puppy classes that U know
are well-run & local to the buyer, or a good pet-sitter who can pop in & take the pup out to potty when
the owners are at work before the pup is 5 to 6-MO, & dry for the day / can wait to toilet.

Make play-dates for Ur dam & her pups, or Ur sire & his pups - keep them alive to each other,
so that if DoG forbid they must come back, the parent-dog is on friendly terms with the kids.

Offer to help with socialization, or vet-visits for each pup solo, or short happy groomer visits, etc.

Have the name & contact-info for a good in-house sitter, or an equally good boarding kennel,
so that if the dog needs to stay somewhere, it's not a random grab in an emergency.
Offer to pup-sit overnite or for the weekend, if U can - keep the pups familair with U & the household.

Be ready to field possibly 'dumb' questions, but any question deserves an answer, & be grateful
that the buyer trusts U enuf to ask!, rather than whine about silly questions - it's a compliment to be
seen as a genuine resource, & the only really dumb questions are the ones that are never asked,
sadly.

 

It's probably sadly unworkable, but wouldn't it be wonderful if more people had to by law take responsibility for their breeding, it would stamp out a lot of the BYBs straight away!

It would be difficult to enforce, but if part of registering pups (and yes, I'd like to see all cross breeds registered as well) was to also file a contract with the *company* who registers dogs, whether that stays with the KC or not. And yes, that would stop people simply churning out litters, and put an end to puppy farmers and pet supermarkets selling puppies.

 

I have loved to keep in contact with any puppies I have bred and mainly it has happened - but I would not buy a puppy with a contract or if I did I would have no intention of honouring it. Once I have bought it or taken it on it is my dog to do what I like with. I will keep in contact with the breeder because I enjoy the contact but that is as far as it goes.

I am sure I cannot be alone in this.

 

I have loved to keep in contact with any puppies I have bred and mainly it has happened - but I would not buy a puppy with a contract or if I did I would have no intention of honouring it. Once I have bought it or taken it on it is my dog to do what I like with. I will keep in contact with the breeder because I enjoy the contact but that is as far as it goes.

I am sure I cannot be alone in this.

Who says you have to stay in touch? The contract of sale could be as basic as needs be, but the point is that if the dog was handed in, the contract would show the breeder details, and the dog then becomes their responsibility.

 

Who says you have to stay in touch? The contract of sale could be as basic as needs be, but the point is that if the dog was handed in, the contract would show the breeder details, and the dog then becomes their responsibility.

I said that I liked staying in touch. But I do not like a contract.

I am confused. Where would a dog be handed in and why would anyone still even have the contract or be bothered by it. I think there would only be a small number of breeders that would take the dog back anyway. Even if the intention was there at the time of breeding things change.

 

Some of the comments are a bit harsh, but even harsher, today, when I was doing my shopping, I was approached by the Dogs Trust. I already donate to the Dogs Trust, but they were asking for any extra I could offer, so I doubled my donations. They are building two new rehoming centres, because they are having a dog handed in every six hours at the moment. They don't put their dogs down, but some *rescue* places do, and it's depressing to think of how many dogs are simply being bred, to be passed from pillar to post, and then die before their time because no-one wants them any longer. I've even seen adverts for people rehoming older dogs, to make space for a new puppy.

So when people post about simply chucking a couple of dogs together, or allowing their pet dogs to procreate, that's why threads like this receive some less than tolerant posts I'm afraid. Sometimes people listen, but more often than not, they don't, it's not against the law to breed dogs, and lots of people do it for extra cash.

I totally AGREE, we give to dogs trust also it's not a lot but it's something and in return we hear on the progress on little staff which is always nice

 

Yes we got them checked by the vet in the view to breed them.
My dog is a spaniel her dog is a poodle.

The up to 13 puppies will go to family and friends and we both want to keep a puppy. We both would love another dog and as our dogs are getting on so well and we do believe the puppies would be of lovely temperament and character and we have so many family and friends who would love to have a dog from the union we decided to try and breed them.
This is not just a quick decision as she had two seasons since we/the dogs are friends and did not go ahead at her last season as we have not had it properly planned out (vet checks, enough homes lined up etc.)

And no neither of our dogs have been bread before as we are dog owners and lovers not "breeders" as in trying to get out as many dogs as possible of our dogs.

Oh, God. Not again . . .

 

I said that I liked staying in touch. But I do not like a contract.

I am confused. Where would a dog be handed in and why would anyone still even have the contract or be bothered by it. I think there would only be a small number of breeders that would take the dog back anyway. Even if the intention was there at the time of breeding things change.

I thought all decent breeders stipulate that if the dog has to be rehomed for any reason, the dog must be returned to them

Oh just realised that you mean of the people like the OP?

 

I think the OP is bonkers. Firstly, they don't think they're "breeders" How does that work then, if you give birth, you are a mum, whether you have one or six children, so they are breeders, it's just a matter of what type of breeder they OP is. No-one refers to themselves as backyard breeders, but that is exactly what the OP wants to become.

Secondly, they have homes for 13 puppies ...... oh yeah, right, what ever....so 13 puppies are sent out into this world, not health-tested, nothing except a vet saying they're "healthy", that's good innit!

Thirdly, what makes the OP think that they should chuck their dogs together? ££££££££££££££££££££££££ - pure and simple. I hope to God this mating doesn't happen. Poor poor dogs. Being bred by stupid people.


Yes, I am sick and tired of these ignorant and stupid people putting two dogs together and wanting puppies. Makes me absolutely sick. And, I really couldn't give a toss if anyone thinks I'm harsh, get themselves around the rescue centres and have a look at all the puppies that have been born and abandoned, weeks months or years later by people just like this OP. Ig but, it's OK because they're all going to family and friends though......:nonod: