Hello and welcome.

What breed are these two. I know you say your vet has checked them, but have they had the relevant tests for their breed?

I just wonder why you want to produce a litter of pups?

Has this dog ever sired a litter before?

 

I'm sure someone experienced in breeding will be along soon to advise you on mating times etc.

What breed of dog is it, if you don't mind me asking? Have they both had all the relevant health tests for their breed?

 

Cross-posted Sweety, soz.

 

Please bear in mind that you might have 13 people interested now, but many may back out.

What are your reasons for wanting to breed?

 

Cross-posted Sweety, soz.

Shoshannah,

I've dug deep into my heart and ............ I forgive you. x

 

Yes we got them checked by the vet in the view to breed them.
My dog is a spaniel her dog is a poodle.

The up to 13 puppies will go to family and friends and we both want to keep a puppy. We both would love another dog and as our dogs are getting on so well and we do believe the puppies would be of lovely temperament and character and we have so many family and friends who would love to have a dog from the union we decided to try and breed them.
This is not just a quick decision as she had two seasons since we/the dogs are friends and did not go ahead at her last season as we have not had it properly planned out (vet checks, enough homes lined up etc.)

And no neither of our dogs have been bread before as we are dog owners and lovers not "breeders" as in trying to get out as many dogs as possible of our dogs.

 

Please have the spaniel DNA tested for PRA (this might be recommended for the poodle too) as it would be devastating for any pups to have this horrible condition

Health tests are not the same as vet checks - a vet check is a quick once-over to see if your dog is currently healthy. A health test finds out if your dog is a carrier of any genetic conditions that could be passed down to a pup. Just because your dogs are healthy doesn't mean they aren't carriers, and in the case of PRA, you could end up with puppies who go blind

 

Yes we got them checked by the vet in the view to breed them.My dog is a spaniel her dog is a poodle.

The up to 13 puppies will go to family and friends and we both want to keep a puppy. We both would love another dog and as our dogs are getting on so well and we do believe the puppies would be of lovely temperament and character and we have so many family and friends who would love to have a dog from the union we decided to try and breed them.
This is not just a quick decision as she had two seasons since we/the dogs are friends and did not go ahead at her last season as we have not had it properly planned out (vet checks, enough homes lined up etc.)

And no neither of our dogs have been bread before as we are dog owners and lovers not "breeders" as in trying to get out as many dogs as possible of our dogs.

A vet check is meaningless in terms of breeding. Both dogs should have eye tests and hip scores as a minimum and at least one should be dna tested for pra (the eye test does have check pra but it only tests that the dog does not suffer from it at that time - a dna test will tell you whether the dog is clear, a carrier or affected.)

Oh, even if you have one litter you are a breeder.

 

Please please get full health checks done on both dogs not just a vet saying they are healthy dogs, there could be so many health problems along the way with the puppies, and vet bills are not cheap, xx

 

Anyone who allows a bitch to have pups, or a dog to sire them is a BREEDER! You will have responsibility for any pups produced for the whole of their lives.

You will also be responsible for bringing into the world pups who have shortened lifespan filled with suffering due to the fact YOU HAVE NOT checked for hereditary health issues carried by either breed.

Vets can only tell you if the dogs are fit enough to breed, not what hereditary issues they might carry.

Please separate these dogs and enjoy them as pets, or be prepared to fork out the money for health tests like a responsible breeder would.

Breeding carries far more responsibility than bunging two dogs together.

 

Yes we got them checked by the vet in the view to breed them.
My dog is a spaniel her dog is a poodle.

The up to 13 puppies will go to family and friends and we both want to keep a puppy. We both would love another dog and as our dogs are getting on so well and we do believe the puppies would be of lovely temperament and character and we have so many family and friends who would love to have a dog from the union we decided to try and breed them.
This is not just a quick decision as she had two seasons since we/the dogs are friends and did not go ahead at her last season as we have not had it properly planned out (vet checks, enough homes lined up etc.)

And no neither of our dogs have been bread before as we are dog owners and lovers not "breeders" as in trying to get out as many dogs as possible of our dogs.

Health checks are not indictative of anything, other than the parents *appear* healthy. Health tests are actual recognised ways of recording the parents do not suffer from *a* condition, or recording the extent of something like dysplasia.

Can I ask why you are breeding? And can I also warn you, if you are inexperienced, mating can carry risks in itself, bitches can have strictures or other problems that are not outwardly obvious, and they can injure themselves in the process of mating. Do you have an experienced mentor that can help you with all these things?

 

What size Poodle and is the Spaniel the potential Sire or the Dam?

I mean if you're considering mating a Toy Poodle bitch to a Springer Spaniel, you could be in for a World of trouble.

Do please be aware that much as you might love the idea of this, these pups would be Crossbreeds, and whilst I have nothing against that personally, the Pounds and Shelters are bursting at the seams with them. Unwanted and homeless.

Please think carefully about what you're planning to do.

As an ex-breeder, I took responsibility for my pups to the point of insisting on having them back at any point in their lives if necessary, and it does happen!

I took a dog back at four years old when his Owners separated.

 

Why is it that when asked if the dogs have been health tested posters reply that they have been checked by the vet.

Just for reference....

Eye tests. These cannot be done by your vet (unless your vet is one of the 30ish ophthalmic specialists that are on the BVA eye testing panel). They can only be done by an appointed ophthalmic specialist.

http://www.bva.co.uk/public/documents/EP_list_Jan_2012.pdf

Hip scores involve taking an xray of your dog's hips (and while your vet can do this I would recommend a vet who is experienced in placing a dog for hip scoring), which are then sent to the BVA to be assessed by a specialist panel. Your vet cannot hip score.

There are several laboratories that do DNA PRA tests, I use Optigen in the US. Your vet will need to take bloods which you send to the US to be tested and the results are sent back to you.

I think you will find it is a little different to the 'vet check' that your vet has done.

 

The up to 13 puppies will go to family and friends and we both want to keep a puppy. We both would love another dog and as our dogs are getting on so well and we do believe the puppies would be of lovely temperament and character and we have so many family and friends who would love to have a dog from the union we decided to try and breed them.

Don't be surprised if some of those people saying how much they would love a pup disappear when the pups are actually on the ground.

My most recent pup is from a very well bred litter, bred by an experienced breeder with plenty of interest beforehand and yet several people still backed out once the litter was born as they were all a "boring" common colour. Do none of the people who want a pup have any preference as to gender, colour, coat type, pattern etc.? However unlikely the statistics say it is all the pups could turn out the same gender, or the same colour and looking exactly like a spaniel with no indication there's any poodle there at all. Bear in mind that if people do back out and you're left with pups unsold at 8 weeks there's going to be nothing to distinguish them from the countless (and I really do mean countless) litters of poodle crosses on Pets4Homes and similar sites.

Regardless of the size of poodle and whether the spaniel is a springer or cocker (I'm presuming it's one or the other) both parents should be hip scored and eye tested. There are also several breed specific DNA tests that should be done as well. You can see a list of which tests should be done on these pages;

English springer spaniel

Cocker spaniel

Miniature poodle

Standard poodle

 

Hi guest2014,
Maybe it’s a good thing they haven’t bred yet.

Unfortunately there is a pet dog overpopulation crisis pretty much everywhere, including the UK. Rescues are full of lovely crosses who need homes - including spanielXpoodle with just as lovely temperaments as your two.

What purpose do you have in adding dogs to the pet population? What will the dogs you produce have to offer that isn’t already available in shelters and free pet advertisements all over the place?
If you’re not doing the suggested genetic health testing, temperament testing, early neurostimulation, early socialization and handling, anything to set your pups apart from the bazillion other poodle/spaniel crosses out there, all you’re really doing is throwing more dogs in to an overpopulated environment, to the detriment of those individual dogs. Is that something you really want to do?

Additionally, have you thought about a contract or agreement from your puppy buyers? What kind of checks will you have in place to make sure those dogs stay in a good home for the life of the dog? What if one of the pups you sell ends up in an abusive home? What legal recourse will you have in place to ensure you can take that pup back? How are you going to make sure that the pups you produce don’t end up in rescue? What if one (or several) of the pups have health or temperament issues? What kind of responsibility will you, as the producer of these dogs take? What will you do to make sure the pup is properly taken care of?

Are you going to require that these future homes spay/neuter their dogs? How are you going to ensure that the dogs you produce don’t go on to produce 13 more pups of their own? I’m not the best at maths, but even if only 5 of your potential 13 pups go on to breed, purposely or accidentally, you’re now looking at 50 to 60 more dogs added in to a population where dogs are PTS daily for lack of homes. Is that really something you want to contribute to?

I know you’ve said you’ve thought about this, but I would urge you to consider the full ramifications of indiscriminate breeding. Not just it’s effect on you personally, but the bigger picture.

 

go to a shelter on "kill" day and watch a helpless animal die just because of overcrowding conditions and there are not enough home for all of them. It all comes down to irresponsible "breeders" that intentionally breed mixed breed pups or people that let their dogs run loose to breed at will.

I have nothing against mixed breed dogs, they all need a home and they don't know or care what they are. Its up to you to make sure you don't add to the problem by deliberately making more.

Stop and think what you are doing, you are letting pups be born that you have no idea what their future will be. There are sick twisted people that take "free" pets and abuse them, sell them to laboratories, use them as bait animals and who knows what else these sick minds think of.

Have your dogs spayed and neutered, end this cycle of needless suffering just because you want to breed. Enjoy them as the pets they were made to be. You aren't creating a new breed, you are creating more mutts with an unknown future. Think of the dogs and the pups already here that need home. Stop thinking of what you want and think of the dogs.

 

So it wouldn't upset you to end up with pups who go blind?

Because that can happen IF you don't get the parents screened for PRA. And sorry to be so blunt but if you don't know what PRA is, you have no right to try and breed these dogs.

We ALL have fab dogs, but that is not a reason to breed from them - not when the rescues and shelters are crammed full of unwanted, unloved dogs.

 

should be mandatory jail time for the crime of being stupid!

Leave breeding to the experts (which I am not) You want a mutt go to a shelter, there are plenty there to choose from and they are just as deserving as a purebred of having a good loving home.

Save a life, don't create more!

75% of pups wind up in shelters or other homes, very few actually stay in their original home.

People get dogs on a whim, then they tire of it when it doesn't self train or has behavior issues that they themselves cause. Then they are passed on to be someone else's problem. Bounced from home to home until they wind up dumped or put in a shelter to be put down.

If this OP thinks her situation is different she's delusional. Happens all the time.

 

Oh gosh you lot are depressing.... BUT I do totally agree with every single comment

 

Oh gosh you lot are depressing.... BUT I do totally agree with every single comment

Some of the comments are a bit harsh, but even harsher, today, when I was doing my shopping, I was approached by the Dogs Trust. I already donate to the Dogs Trust, but they were asking for any extra I could offer, so I doubled my donations. They are building two new rehoming centres, because they are having a dog handed in every six hours at the moment. They don't put their dogs down, but some *rescue* places do, and it's depressing to think of how many dogs are simply being bred, to be passed from pillar to post, and then die before their time because no-one wants them any longer. I've even seen adverts for people rehoming older dogs, to make space for a new puppy.

So when people post about simply chucking a couple of dogs together, or allowing their pet dogs to procreate, that's why threads like this receive some less than tolerant posts I'm afraid. Sometimes people listen, but more often than not, they don't, it's not against the law to breed dogs, and lots of people do it for extra cash.

 

Oh gosh you lot are depressing.... BUT I do totally agree with every single comment

It's true, it is depressing and I don't think anyone particularly enjoys threads such as these.

The whole business of the thousands of unwanted dogs is depressing though, especially when there are people only too willing to keep churning them out through casual breeding.

 

And they read all the advice give, went away, ignored it because it was not what they wanted to hear, and by now i expect the deed is done!!

 

...we got them checked by the vet [with a] view to breed them.
...

Please see the sticky, Necessary Health Tests before breeding , on this sub-forum,
& specifically starting with this single post:

http://www.petforums.co.uk/1061204822-post68.html

Heritable conditions in some SPANIEL breeds:

American Cocker Spaniel:
1, 2, 10, 12, 18, 26, 27, 38, 38a, 42, 43, 54, 55, 64, 65, 69,
72, 73, 88, 94, 94a, 95, 103, 107, 109, 121, 123, 135, 146,
147, 148, 149, 150, 152, 154, 166, 171, 173, 179, 181, 186,
188, 192, 193a, 197, 220, 221, 221a, 226, 228, 235, 236,
242, 245, 250, 254, 256, 266, 270, 275, 276, 286, 307,
311a, 312, 318, 319, 320, 330

American Water Spaniel:
42, 150, 270

Cavalier King Charles Spaniel:
37b, 42, 65, 85, 88, 103, 114a,124d, 166, 179, 199, 201,
235, 249, 256, 270, 305, 311a

Clumber Spaniel:
94, 103, 152, 309, 319, 324

English Cocker Spaniel:
42, 70, 88, 94, 103, 119, 135, 146, 147, 149b, 150, 166, 177,
186, 214, 221, 221a, 226, 236, 245, 256, 259, 270, 304, 330

English Springer Spaniel:
9a, 10, 12, 18, 26, 27, 42, 43, 54, 55, 59, 65, 69, 72, 88, 94,
94a, 95, 103, 107, 109, 121, 123, 124, 129b, 135, 140, 146,
147, 148, 149, 150, 152, 154, 159a, 160a, 166, 171, 173, 188,
193a, 197, 206, 206a, 213, 220, 221, 221a, 226, 228, 235, 236,
242, 245, 245a, 254, 256, 264a, 266, 270, 273a, 275, 276, 286,
307, 318, 319, 320, 330

English Toy Spaniel
(King Charles and Ruby Blenheim Spaniels):
42, 55, 65, 85, 103, 143, 235, 249, 270, 311a, 318

Field Spaniel:
14, 42, 166, 256, 270

Irish Water Spaniel:
42, 152, 166, 167, 195, 245, 256, 330

Japanese Spaniel / Japanese Chin:
42, 57, 70, 88, 103, 110, 137, 235, 256, 313

Welsh Springer Spaniel:
42, 135, 152, 245, 256

Heritable conditions in POODLES:

Miniature Poodle:
5, 10, 22, 26, 27, 42, 49, 57, 70, 78, 81, 85, 88, 92,
93, 103, 109, 110, 111, 121, 135, 136, 140, 144, 146,
147, 156, 165, 166, 173, 175, 184, 186, 192, 193a,
199, 206, 206a, 220, 221, 221a, 223, 226, 230, 235,
236, 250, 256, 269, 273a, 275, 294, 311a, 312, 313,
322a, 327, 330

Standard Poodle:
9a, 10, 21, 22, 27, 31, 42, 61, 81, 88, 103, 109, 110,
121, 124a, 135, 140, 144, 146, 147, 152, 159a, 166,
175, 184, 186, 192, 199, 220, 221, 221a, 223, 230,
245, 256, 269, 273a, 311a, 312, 330

Toy Poodle:
5, 10, 22, 26, 27, 42, 49, 57, 70, 78, 81, 85, 88, 92,
93, 103, 109, 110, 111, 121, 124a, 135, 136, 140, 144,
146, 147, 149, 156, 165, 166, 173, 175, 184, 186, 193a,
199, 220, 221, 221a, 223, 226, 230, 235, 236, 256, 269,
273a, 275, 294, 311a, 313, 322a, 327, 330

For the names of the heritable conditions, SEE the thread -
the prospective breeder, ANY prospective breeder, needs to know the potential risks,
AND whether there are tests to assess carrier / affected, or recessives.

Some tests are cheap, but the majority are not; that's why ethically-bred pups aren't cheap.
However, there are also pet-shops who will flog a pup who comes from un-tested parents for MORE
than an ethically-bred pup bought directly from the breeder. Profit is what inflates the price -
not quality, nor the COSTS they've incurred in raising, shipping, etc.

Additionally, no dog should be bred before 24-MO; that's 2-years age.
There are 2 reasons:
* 85% of all heritable conditions will show symptoms by age-2, in dogs who will be affected; thus,
even an un-testable potential problem can be seen, before the dog produces pups.

* Breeding for the first time at age-2 adds an average of 2-years to the lifespan of the pups.
It's the cheapest & simplest method of extending any dog's potential lifespan: delaying breeding.

I mention this as the OP has not said the age of either dog, but i suspect neither has reached 2-YO.
The bitch has only had 2 heats, previously, so she'd be about 18-MO. Another 6-mos will allow those pesky tests
to be done [eye certificates from a vet-opthalmologist, PennHIP radiographs on hips & elbows, SKIN PUNCH
samples from the Poodle, etc, etc].
.
.

 

And they read all the advice give, went away, ignored it because it was not what they wanted to hear, and by now i expect the deed is done!!

Unfortunately, I think you're right, although there are those on here who think we've 'frightened them away'

 

I cannot understand why anyone would consider breeding a litter of puppies in this day and age. Absolutely no thought has gone into this decision other than the same old ' I want to keep a puppy'. Are you prepared to be responsible for the pups for the rest of their lives. You should be prepared to do this as this is what resposible breeders offer prospective buyers of their pups. Why the hell breed potentially 10 to 12 puppies just to keep a couple. Search your concience and go to a rescue centre for another dog-don't just add to the problem just because you think you can. Watching a dog die just because it isn't wanted anymore (as hundreds are every day) is heartbreaking and people like you are responsible:incazzato: