Money, pure and simple :mad2:

 

My first thought WTF?!!! Nothing on the site about housing all these dogs and their puppies, nothing about the sires, nothing about health testing, how many staff etc. Would have thought if they're so proud of their 'establishment' they would have given more information.

 

What makes it worse is that its vet iffiliated which for people who dont know anything about health testing etc will be encouraged by. For the general public who want a puppy i can't see anything that would seem alarming to them. Which is probably why these type of places carry on!

 

I think for many years people have said and heard...."the dog was 8 when it died, which is good for a pedigree dog." which suggests that dogs bred from one breed only may not be as healthy as your average cross breed or mongrel.so that from angle I can see why some people may think they are getting healthier.

I cant for the life in me accept a "designer dog" which muppet thought that term up? Designer?????Yves St Laurent dogs now? what exactly does designer dog mean?lol

Makes you wonder why people have the breeds/types of dogs they do have.but designer?oh my.lol

Designer...like a handbag maybe? Its made of the same material, holds the same amount of stuff yet some people will always pay £500 for one with somebody else's name on it.

 

Only a few years ago nobody wanted crossbreeds......pedigree or nothing.

 

I was up at a company on business yesterday and was chatting a long to the sales lady about our dogs, like you do. She had a dashound and a dalmation which looked very cute together. She mentioned that her friend had just got a Cavapoo puppy. When i queried what the reasoning was she said well because its part poodle it doesnt shed so its hypoallegeric. I started to chuckle and said why didnt she just go for a poodle then thinking you would have more guarantee that it might be none shedding without the cav part messing it up and she said oh she wanted a designer dog and paid about £750 for it! Now that is crazy but typical of the sort of person who would buy a dog from this place. I mean to the general public how can a kennel be that bad if you get discount at your local vet for using them?

 

I was up at a company on business yesterday and was chatting a long to the sales lady about our dogs, like you do. She had a dashound and a dalmation which looked very cute together. She mentioned that her friend had just got a Cavapoo puppy. When i queried what the reasoning was she said well because its part poodle it doesnt shed so its hypoallegeric. I started to chuckle and said why didnt she just go for a poodle then thinking you would have more guarantee that it might be none shedding without the cav part messing it up and she said oh she wanted a designer dog and paid about £750 for it! Now that is crazy but typical of the sort of person who would buy a dog from this place. I mean to the general public how can a kennel be that bad if you get discount at your local vet for using them?

tut..thats why places like this thrive..dippy people.

 

Found anew name for a dog on pets4homes, I had to look it up to see what it actually was, A PUGGLE? apparently a cross between a pug and a beagle, WHAT? I thought beagles were big dogs and pugs were very small

 

Found anew name for a dog on pets4homes, I had to look it up to see what it actually was, A PUGGLE? apparently a cross between a pug and a beagle, WHAT? I thought beagles were big dogs and pugs were very small

i saw one other day was a cross between a pug and a dash hound iv for got the name now but it didnt make any sence.

 

Found anew name for a dog on pets4homes, I had to look it up to see what it actually was, A PUGGLE? apparently a cross between a pug and a beagle, WHAT? I thought beagles were big dogs and pugs were very small

They sell for a grand near me! Then someone created f2 mini puggles, 1.500 each! Didn't sell, last time I see them they were £650 each, only took him 1 generation to produce a 'miniature' one!

Sounds like the place In Norfolk? golden mountain dogs? golden cross bernese, just a made up name and £850 each! She also breeds a lot of other dogs!

 

depressing -

just something to bear in mind - when you post a live link to another site on the web - it helps push it up the search engines - and the site owner will be able to track where it came from (often down to the thread)

It might be worth writing the link in a way that isn't live so people have to type it in themselves if they want to see what it is all about (it also makes it harder for the site owner to know how the visitors have come by their site )

 

My goodness. Can honestly say these things amaze me. Why oh why? After a bottle of red one night and a lengthy discussion regarding cross breeding and dog politics decided we would test the water and see actually how many brain dead people where out there! We advertised my dogue to non kc bitches. The amount of enquiries was unbelivable! We also advertised a litter of dogue x pugs. Again had 13 emails in 24 hours! Advertised her purebred show Akita to any small breed to make mini Akitas! I know it was very naughty and childish but we left the ads on 24 hours and we would have been loaded. I personally have nothing against xbreeds but would not in anyway cross purely be because I show my dogues and crossing would be no benefit to me or the breed, which is the reason I have bred. The amount of puppy farms and breeding for profit is sickening and I can only cringe at wht conditions these poor dogs are been kept in x

 

In my 20 years of dog ownership (I have never bred, a walk round a rescue centre would change my mind if I ever did feel the need) I have learned to notice the signs of a puppy farmer. Multiple breeds or crossbreeds all available at the same time is a big red flag. Everyone who has bred healthy, happy puppies knows how time consuming and expensive it is to bring the litter up in the right way. So imagine having 12+ litters to bring up at the same time. That website is one of a puppy farmer if I ever saw one! I hear all too often stories of people inadvertantly buying from puppy farmers because they're new to dogs and didn't know the signs, we all got our first dog at one point, but seeing the signs is mostly down to common sense. "We decided to get the dog on friday and had him by the sunday", "the pups were living in the shed", "he has champions in his line so we HAVE to breed from him!!!" All things I've heard from people and the last one really gets to me. Unless you're an established breeder who breeds ocassionally and is continuing a healthy line, breeding from your dog should not be first and foremost on your mind when getting a pup. And those who feel they have to... like it would be some kind of waste if they didn't???? Waste of what???? Plus if the pup was from a reputable breeder it should have endorsements or a contract to say you can't breed from the dog. Endorsements are obviously lifted for those who have discussed breeding beforehand. That's a different story.

The hypoallergenic comments from Poodle cross owners makes me laugh too. PinkEars makes an excellent point earlier in this thread. If you want a hypoallergenic dog why not get a pure pred Poodle. A cross does not guarantee non-shedding. I'm a dog groomer and hear all about this ridiculous excuse for cross breeding. Soon the Poodle crosses will take over the world. I have owned lovely cross breeds in the past, it used to be that cross breeds were usually an accident. Another of the breeds mentioned before that people are going nuts for is the Pug crosses. This I understand even less than the Poodle crosses. The reasoning behind it that I have heard from the owners of these Pug crosses is beyond understanding. They take a breed which is sometimes riddled with health problems, the Pug. Their flat muzzles and elongated pallet can make breathing difficult, because of the 'desireable' curly tail their spines are sometimes curved and their bulky bodies and short legs teamed with the breathing problems can sometimes make mobility difficult. Having eyes so big they are prone to injury and where there are many occasions where they pop out of their skulls! And team that with a breed who has very few know typical health problems, the Jack Russell Terrier. Their aim? To create a Pug-like appearence with the health of the JRT. Why?? Has no thought gone into possibly creating dogs with JRT looks with the horrible health of a Pug??

I HATE the term 'designer dog' and I dislike the amalgamation of the two breed names to make cross-breeds sound like Pedigrees. The lines between the two are fading fast. To be clear though I love cross-breeds but I don't like the way humans are dressing them up to be something they're not and charging unbelieveable prices. All this talk of 'rare' colours and whatever else to get more money out of inexperienced dog owners is criminal but if people stopped falling for it, it would stop happening. That's something that doesn't just happen in the dog world. I also keep Rats, all my Rats are rescues who people have discarded or no longer had the time for. People get these animals for their children and 9 times ot of 10 the kid is sick of their pet when it is no longer a baby. Sound familiar? The use of the word 'rare' to bump up the price of Rats is also used but instead of it making someone like me think 'ooo I'll pay more for that rat because it's a rare colour' it shows the advertiser to be an idiot. I hope others agree. One person tried to sell a single Rat for £40 because it was a black-eyed hairless and in her missguided opinion all hairless Rats have red eyes. This is not true.

The world of animal breeding is a funny one isn't it?

 

As far as I'm concerned, all pedigree dogs are 'designer' dogs - they were all selectively bred to fulfil a specific purpose - whether it was killing rats, herding sheep, retrieving game or whatever - surely that's what 'designer' means!

I agree that the stupid names that these poor dogs are landed with are both ridiculous and dangerous, because it implies a careful breeding programme, whereas they are cross breeds, pure and simple - and some of them are downright mongrels! There is nowt wrong with mongrels, but the traditional 'tough enough to pass on his genes in spite of having three buckets of water thrown over him' mongrel stud no longer exists - they are now badly bred and badly raised pedigrees with more health problems than most of us can imagine.

 

As far as I'm concerned, all pedigree dogs are 'designer' dogs - they were all selectively bred to fulfil a specific purpose - whether it was killing rats, herding sheep, retrieving game or whatever - surely that's what 'designer' means!

I quite agree with the above. The thing is that time moves on, and the world changes. We now live in different times, with different things expected from our dogs. The tasks described above are now irrelevant to most people, and so the idea to come up with something new, and more fitting to today's world, is quite understandable. The very fact that crosses are now so popular goes to illustrate this point. It causes a lot of friction, granted, but there is a certain logic to the process.

 

I have a dog and have seen his x advertised a Whoodles !!!!!!!! and the price £400,,, and the advert said as it is a poodle x the puppies wont shed their fur,,, well Charlie does ,,,, i got him from a Lurcher rescue age 13 months old and am his 4th owner , he is a Whippet x Poodle, i bet he was the result of someone jumping on the "lets breed poodles with any breed" wagon and get lots of money,

 

As far as I'm concerned, all pedigree dogs are 'designer' dogs - they were all selectively bred to fulfil a specific purpose - whether it was killing rats, herding sheep, retrieving game or whatever - surely that's what 'designer' means!

I agree that the stupid names that these poor dogs are landed with are both ridiculous and dangerous, because it implies a careful breeding programme, whereas they are cross breeds, pure and simple - and some of them are downright mongrels! There is nowt wrong with mongrels, but the traditional 'tough enough to pass on his genes in spite of having three buckets of water thrown over him' mongrel stud no longer exists - they are now badly bred and badly raised pedigrees with more health problems than most of us can imagine.

Read the bit in bold again, they were bred to do a job, look at the crosses today and random names, they are NOT bred for a purpose, that's the big difference, they are bred for £.

I quite agree with the above. The thing is that time moves on, and the world changes. We now live in different times, with different things expected from our dogs. The tasks described above are now irrelevant to most people, and so the idea to come up with something new, and more fitting to today's world, is quite understandable. The very fact that crosses are now so popular goes to illustrate this point. It causes a lot of friction, granted, but there is a certain logic to the process.

I cant see that myself!

I have a dog and have seen his x advertised a Whoodles !!!!!!!! and the price £400,,, and the advert said as it is a poodle x the puppies wont shed their fur,,, well Charlie does ,,,, i got him from a Lurcher rescue age 13 months old and am his 4th owner , he is a Whippet x Poodle, i bet he was the result of someone jumping on the "lets breed poodles with any breed" wagon and get lots of money,

some springer x poodles as Sproodles near me, £850 each

 

Read the bit in bold again, they were bred to do a job, look at the crosses today and random names, they are NOT bred for a purpose, that's the big difference, they are bred for £.

The point I was trying to make is that pedigree dogs, the ORIGINAL designer dogs, may have been bred with a purpose in mind but, for most of them, that purpose has now disappeared. The majority of dogs are now pets, not workers, and so any abilities bred into them, over the years, are largely redundant anyway. If you are not going to use a dogs "special" abilities then I don't see why one dog should be classed as any better than another. To me it would come down to the dog itself, not the breed, or non-breed, that the dog is from. Far more important considerations are time, space and lifestyle. Then someone should pick a dog, any dog, that fits in with them best. If that turns out to be a cross then what does it matter?

 

The point I was trying to make is that pedigree dogs, the ORIGINAL designer dogs, may have been bred with a purpose in mind but, for most of them, that purpose has now disappeared. The majority of dogs are now pets, not workers, and so any abilities bred into them, over the years, are largely redundant anyway. If you are not going to use a dogs "special" abilities then I don't see why one dog should be classed as any better than another. To me it would come down to the dog itself, not the breed, or non-breed, that the dog is from. Far more important considerations are time, space and lifestyle. Then someone should pick a dog, any dog, that fits in with them best. If that turns out to be a cross then what does it matter?

I think there are enough breeds out there to suit someones needs, with a cross you don't know what you are getting so how do you know If that suits your need?

That's what I mean bred with a purpose, now its bred for money.

 

The point I was trying to make is that pedigree dogs, the ORIGINAL designer dogs, may have been bred with a purpose in mind but, for most of them, that purpose has now disappeared. The majority of dogs are now pets, not workers, and so any abilities bred into them, over the years, are largely redundant anyway.

Maybe, maybe not. But many people still make use of the breed characteristics even if not in the way that the original breeders would have done. West highland terriers, for instance, were bred to kill rats and rabbits, but are perfectly suited to someone who wants a small, energetic and independent little dog who will happily chase after a ball all day; labs are not used solely for retrieving now, but are suited to people who want a dog with stamina and a soft mouth, which is biddable and gentle. So to a degree we do continue to use the dogs' "special abilities"

If you are not going to use a dogs "special" abilities then I don't see why one dog should be classed as any better than another. To me it would come down to the dog itself, not the breed, or non-breed, that the dog is from. Far more important considerations are time, space and lifestyle. Then someone should pick a dog, any dog, that fits in with them best.

Absolutely! And there is a breed of dog for every combination of time, space and lifestyle that you could conjure up. TBH, if the same care an attention went into the breeding of "sproodles" and "frugs" and "cresty-la-las" as went into our original pedigrees, I would have no difficulty in welcoming them to the world of dog ownership - but the only thing they are designed for are four-legged cash machines for unscrupulous breeders. Most of these crosses are not well-thought out. They come about because somebody wants a bit of cash, can't be bothered to find a health-tested dog of the same breed as their bitch (or to get their bitch tested, either), and so sticks her with any male dog (if she's lucky, he's of a similar size) and gives the resultant litter a stupid name to imply that they are a "breed". It seems to me that as the more '"common" crosses lose their rarity value, dafter and dafter combinations are being produced, so that they can be advertised with that most seductive of all descriptions - "RARE". Many crosses are actively producing a high proportio of unhealthy pups (puggles, for instance; and frugs), many are being produced because it is mistakenly thought that they will have certain characteristics just because one of the parents has them (someone has already mentioned that EVERY poodle cross is advertised as hypoallergenic - and they aren't! And many are being produced through sheer ignorance of what is involved - it's a puppy, it will make them a few bob, and that's all they want.

If that turns out to be a cross then what does it matter?

If that turns out to be a healthy well-bred cross, doesn't matter at all (except they aren't necessary because there are lots of breeds already available), but many, if not most, are not. The 'designer dogs' label has been and continues to be a licence to print money for BYBs and puppy farmers. Dogs are in general becoming more and more prone to avoidable conditions, and our pedigree dogs, as pure breeds, are in great danger of being lost for good, because the gene pool for many breeds eg poodles, is shrinking so rapidly. When they are gone, we won't get them back.

I agree that a lot of crosses are very attractive - labradoodles (the ones that started the rot - and even the original breeder wishes he hadn't done it now), and cavachons are favourites with me for their appearance and personalities, but I wouldn't buy one just because it encourages wanton breeding.

I think that we should be looking to get our existing breeds as healthy as possible while still retaining they characters, not adding to the misery in rescues and vets' surgeries by breeding haphazardly.

 

They sell for a grand near me! Then someone created f2 mini puggles, 1.500 each! Didn't sell, last time I see them they were £650 each, only took him 1 generation to produce a 'miniature' one!

Sounds like the place In Norfolk? golden mountain dogs? golden cross bernese, just a made up name and £850 each! She also breeds a lot of other dogs!

You mean Clay Hall? Yeah, fully licensed by the local council but churning out sick, poorly socialised dogs :nonod: these disgusting places are sprouting up everywhere.

I contacted Puppylove about the kennels Sara posted in the OP, in case they weren't aware of them, but they said their hands are tied as it's fully licensed.

I think we all need to start harassing our local MPs & MEPs to get these places shut down for good.

 

oops, double post, sorry!

 

There is no need it's people greed taking over, we just seem to want to destroy everything we lay our hands on. Plenty of diverse breeds out there with so many traits , coats, sizes, colours etc just greedy humans, "I want what I want and I'll do anything to get it" with little thought of the outcome.

Sure designer babies are not that far off, some people have no morals and ethics.

 

It appears that I have been quoted a couple of times here, and it seems that my posts may have been taken as being anti-pedigree in some way. This is not the case, although the following may not seem that way.

On the OP, is there a need? then I would have to say no, but there is, most definitely, a want. I cannot think of a single instance, in human history, when it has been decided that we have enough and will go no further. We are just not built that way, and it is what has got us to where we are today - wherever that is. It is always bigger, better, faster, more with us. The lure of the new is very strong.
The times in which we live, with the internet and travel etc, make it a lot smaller world, and adverts for crosses etc are now as available as for pedigrees. It used to be only local papers for mongrels, whilst pedigrees had the KC and breed societies to spread the word. It is now a far more even playing field.
I do not "do" anything with my dogs (show or work) and so, to me, a dog is just a dog. Why would I pay for a bit of paper that I am never going to need? It may as well be a page torn from a phone directory to me.
I do not care what a persons motive for breeding is - not that I could ever be truly sure anyway as I have only their word to go on. If they have the dog that I want, at a price that I am willing to pay, then it is fine by me. Myself, the dog (I hope) and the breeder will all come out happy. Money has been much criticised as a reason to breed, but at least it is honest. Our entire lives revolve around money, or the lack of it, and so I have no problem with it being a reason. It is why I get up, at silly-o-clock, in the morning.
I do take issue with the "pedigree breeders good, other breeders bad" generalisation. I am no expert, but some of the pedigree dogs seem to be pretty mucked-up and there is no direct link, that I am aware of, that proves the breeding crossbreeds for money/mistreats dogs assumption. If it were true, and could be proved, then it would be a simple matter to get the breeders closed down, wouldn't it?
Despite the above, I am not anti-pedigree - I am just pro-choice. It is up to people to make up their own minds as to what they want, and they should have the ability to go and get it. People will set the market, and will only pay what they are either able or willing to afford. Someone can ask anything they like for a puppy, but if no one thinks it worth that much to them the price will drop until it reaches it's true level. It is how the world works.

 

I do not care what a persons motive for breeding is - not that I could ever be truly sure anyway as I have only their word to go on. If they have the dog that I want, at a price that I am willing to pay, then it is fine by me. Myself, the dog (I hope) and the breeder will all come out happy. Money has been much criticised as a reason to breed, but at least it is honest. Our entire lives revolve around money, or the lack of it, and so I have no problem with it being a reason. It is why I get up, at silly-o-clock, in the morning.
I do take issue with the "pedigree breeders good, other breeders bad" generalisation. .

See this annoys the hell out of me, and it's nothing to do with anti pedigree it's this kind of attitude that stinks, this kind of attitude is why there are puppy farmers and BYB's, this is the attitude that puts so many dogs in rescue.

I don't care about anything as long as I get what I want..

You see dogs as a commodity you don't care where they come from, how the bitches are kept what hereditary conditions or illnesses your lack of morals and ethics may contribute to, they are not a fashion accessory, they are not not a designer label, they not there to make you look and feel good. You should be concerned about the welfare of these dogs, you should be concerned about the etchics of the breeder not just you've got money and you can buy it.

I really do worry about the future of dogs with attitudes like this.... It's not a bloody good outlook for them if this is the thoughts of some.........