Hi Guys,

We have a 2yr old rescue lab x springer that pulls like a train. Once outside she loves to sniff and chase and play. She's a great little dog apart from this, inside she's fantastically obedient, very intelligent and quick to learn, but once she has a sniff she's getting an outing she's a nightmare.

We have struggled for about 3-4 months with pulling, we have tried harnesses halti's etc and its not really worked too well but we've decided to now sort ourselves out and to have more discipline outside of the house.

We've developed our method of using a clicker and the start/stop/change direction method and treat and click her when she's walking at heel. After three days she's shown some improvement and even actively came to my heel when i said it once or twice.

The problem we have with doing this is how to burn up her energy as we're doing short 10-15 min bursts of this 3-4 times a day but its not enough for her, she;s still a bit hyper.

My partner thinks that we should put her on the harness and extendable and let her run around like a loon but i'm worried that by allowing her to do this it'll just undo all the work we've been doing by letting her pull again.

Any ideas?

Many Thanks

Dan

1st, What food are you feeding her? If its high protien, full of additives she'll be as hyper as a two year old toddler.
2nd, You won't be ablle to train anthing if she is hyper, you need to calm her down before starting the training. Best to tain her at home in the garden first and then take her out to the big wide world. When you do take her out, let her calm down before moving on. Let her take in the smells and sounds of the new environment and when she is calm start training. If she goes into hyper mode, stop immediately.
3rd, To drain her of energy, give her brain exercises. 20 minutes with a kong if as good as a long walk. People tend to do longer and longer walks with high enrgy dogs, but all they are doing is training an athlete, Unless you are an athlete as well, then go for brain exercises.

 

Agree with Grandad about the food and the mental exercise And about letting an area become less exciting for her before trying to train there. Starting the training somewhere dull is the best bet.

With my Lab who we're working on walking nicely with I use a regular collar and leash to work on it and when I can't work on it or have to let him wander a bit to have a pee and poo (I have no garden so have to take him out for a walk to toilet) I have him on a harness. We go for longish walks, I use a collar and insist on a loose leash going to the woods then switch to a harness and long line then back to a collar and leash on the way back. I did the same sort of thing with my last dog on the advice of a behaviourist we had out for another issue. Dogs are generally very quick to learn that one piece of equipment means this and another piece of equipment means different rules.

 

Agree with all that's been said above. In addition, have you considered chanelling some of that energy into something like Agility? Get her brain working as well as giving her something physical to do.

 

Yeah we are waiting for her to calm down before taking her out and currently just training her up and down the street so she's pretty well used to it now. If she starts to pull to go and sniff something then i move away and treat her when she's at heel.

Regarding food its just regular dry dog food and the treats are Waggs Training Treats... Is there a better type of dog food and treats we could get?

We're trying to do some sit and stays with the tennis ball in the house too.

Is there anything else other than a kong or hide and seek that we could try and do to stimulate her mentally. Our house isn't too big and she knows all the hiding spots now!

We're trying to do some sit and stays with the tennis ball in the house too but we don't have a big garden so its not much of a run for her.

If she can associate the harness with play and the leash with heel walking that would be good....

 

Agree with all that's been said above. In addition, have you considered chanelling some of that energy into something like Agility? Get her brain working as well as giving her something physical to do.

No never thought about agility. she'd probably love that! How would i get started doing that?

 

Just general training will stimulate her brain. Whether it's the normal obedience commands or useless tricks, makes no difference to the dog really.

If you're buying dog food from the supermarket or somewhere like that then I can pretty much guarantee you can find a better food The better foods seem pricey compared to what you see in most shops but you usually end up feeding less of them as there's less filler in them. And less coming out the other end too. This thread might be worth a look.
http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-health-nutrition/189896-dry-dog-food-index.html

I tend to use high value treats for training outside of the house. Things like chicken, cheese, garlic sausage, hot dogs etc. Most shop bought dog treats are pretty boring things and even my canine dustbin doesn't find them that attractive outside.

There's no reason she shouldn't be able to associate the harness with one thing and a regular collar with another thing, mine have never seemed to have a problem distinguishing between two things. You just have to be consistent with the rules for each.

 

She does poop a lot, so less poop would definitely be a bonus!

Funny you should say about the treats she was ignoring some of the gravy biscuits i was giving her yesterday so i think using real food would probably be a good idea! Thanks a lot for the tips.

Hmm i guess we could try and walk her properly to the park and then put on the harness and let her go mad on the extendable while working on her recall. The high value treat idea would be great for this as well i think!

Thank you so much for the help guys!

 

Scent games will wear a dog out quicker than anything. Hide something then let her use her nose to find it.

 

No never thought about agility. she'd probably love that! How would i get started doing that?

You'll get some great advice if you start a new thread about starting agility . There are lots of folk on here who do it and will be in a much better position than me to advise! It'll also help if you mention what part of the country you're in so they could recommend clubs for you to join.

Good luck with her - it sounds like you're on the right track .

 

Agree with all that's been said above. In addition, have you considered chanelling some of that energy into something like Agility? Get her brain working as well as giving her something physical to do.

Or gundog training..............she is a springerador.

 

Thanks for all the tips guys,

I cut up some chorizo, cheese and sausage we had in the fridge and i think we're her new best friend! Never seen her so attentive to us when we've been out on a walk

 

Well after a week of stop/starting and click/treating to heel, I'm getting frustrated.

I've been treating her at my side, saying heel and then stopping when the lead goes taut, pulling her back to my side when she looks at me and then starting again saying heel.

This worked for a few days but I'm now no longer interesting it would seem and my sausage and cheese treats aren't enough to convince her to stop pulling and walk to my heel.

She's made some improvement in that now, when i stop and she gets bored of whatever made her pull she now quickly bounces back to my heel but as soon as I start again she's out in front pulling and wanting to run into every driveway she see's, sniff every piece of rubbish, dirt and whatever thats on the floor.

She seems to be OK in the areas around our house but if we go to a new area or somewhere thats less visited she's a nightmare. On the odd occasion she manages to walk to heel for any amount of time and I treat her, she then just runs ahead.

I'm wondering if it will eventually sink in!? Can I do something different or am i doing something wrong with my method?

 

That's the problem I've had every time with the stop/start method. I find the dog comes back when I stop then just races off ahead again. I find turning every time the dog gets out of position works for me. So if his shoulder passes my knee I turn and walk in the opposite direction. Every single time. You don't get anywhere at all at first, possibly not even out of your front garden if you have one, so instead of setting a destination I set a time limit. Say 5 minutes of practising loose leash walking and then either back inside or switch to my management equipment and go for a proper walk.

Been reading The Other End of the Leash lately and the author describes walking to heel from the dogs point of view as "walk next to the human at the pace of death while ignoring everything interesting" or something along those lines :lol:

If it makes you feel any better I'm convinced I was sent Spencer due to karma. I used to think to myself "why the hell don't people teach their dogs to walk nicely, it's so easy!" and now I have Spen and people probably think that about me

 

It is frustrating but you'll get there!

Here are a few things I picked up I trained Elsie from 18 months and her lead pulling was terrrible it isn't perfect now but it isn't as frustrating.
First we went to dog training classes this relieves a lot of the stress because they had a lot of faith in your ability to do it and they are learning in a very stimulating enviroment with and instructor who can pick up little things that might be going wrong.
Then we developed the following technique which has helped.

• Dogs on a shorter lead.
• Start the walk as you mean to go on, so before we leave the house the dogs have to sit a distance from the door and stay while we open the door.
• Then the minute we leave the house if the dash forward.
• "AH!" "Back"
• Guide not pull the dog slightly to your side refusing to take any steps until it is next to you. You can use a treat to guide back but we found the treat created a big distraction so our reward for the dog is moving forward.
• Good dog *high pitched excited* or treat/clicker
• Take a step.
• The minute they are back on the end of the lead.
• "AH" "Back"
• Guide.
• Good dog *high pitched excited*
• If they still pull (if they desperatly want to greet another dog) take one step back.
• Eventually (and it has taken us about 6 months) they will spend longer trotting by your side. But a lot of the walk is still correcting.

I do let mine on a long lead to wear out some energy or in an enclosed space .
On long lead I use the same techique.. now they have learnt if they stay with the lead slack they can move forward happily if they make it taught then they are asked to come back.
Elsie is a slower learner, Doris learns quickly but likes to push the boundaries by being just near the end.

Classes are worth every penny and help keep you sane. I never realised one of the trickiest things is walking.
I manages to train both dogs to walk to very close on heel in short bursts but was told to do this as part of the walk not the whole walk.
One trainer who specialised in beagles said the best way is to train up recall first. Get them tired off lead, then on the way back or end of the walk do 10 mins of lead training. I have also seen people use this as a way of weaning from halti collar.
Much of the excitable behaviour is at it's worst when the dog is young but the training is still useful.
Very best of luck, Join classes and don't give up

Another good technique is Victoria Stilwell, If the dog pulls turn around and do a few steps in the wrong direction and return to face forward.
Everytime it pulls forward walk in the other direction (best seen on video).

Things I did not find useful were:
Half check collars being used as correction with a short tug. Doris didn't respond and was just at the end of the lead a lot chocking herself.
The short sharp correction pull.
Anything involving loud noises to scare the dog into behaving.
Shouting and getting angry believing the dog is being bad, deliberately disobedient or willfull/stubborn is not useful. I like to think the dog wants to please you and eventually you will both get there but in the meantime the dog has hundreds of exciting sounds/smells/hormones/noises that it wants to investigate and trying to concentrate is hard.

I do know the clicker techniques have been shown to work well with gun dogs we had a flat coated retriever in class who came on so quickly once the clicker technique was in place. Again look into classes.

 

Thanks for the reply Howl,

Your method is very similar to mine. I also get her to sit and wait before we leave the house and also when we get on we make her sit outside till we take our coats and shoes off etc.

I will look into classes and persevere I guess.

 

Two of my dogs naturally heel. They are not excitable and are happy to walk at my side. I've never trained them.

My third dog is a large staffy x and is very excitable. If I can't walk him on a flexi then I have him on a waist harness. He can pull away then.

If I did want him to start walking nicely then I would buy a halti.

It's not a big deal to me. I couldn't have him pulling whilst holding the leads, but attached to my waist, it's not a problem.

It's not the text book answer, but it works for me

 

Do you have access toa safely enclosed area, like a basketball pitch, where you could let her play off lead to use up some of her natural exuberance? It's a fine line, though, between getting her tired but not firing her up even more.

I would strongly suggest training classes too. A good class will give you the skills to walk her with a variety of distractions--inside and out--and you can practice on your own between classes.

Good luck! I'm sure you'll get there

 

picking up on an earlier point - I found that going to agility classes helped my over-excitable collie to focus more and to pay more attention to me to the extent that while he still has his moments when he's just too hyped up to do anything other than zoom round at top speed, they are getting much shorter lived and much much less often (growing up has also helped I think).
If you are interested in agility then the easiest way is to check out www.agilitynet.com and chosse the A-Z of clubs tab - it has a bit where you can put your postcode in and it comes up with a map showing local clubs. Or just google clubs near you (that's what I did as I hadn't heard of agilitynet at the time). I would advise treating them like any other training class and check it out for yourself before committing to taking your dog as, although most clubs use positive reward based training, there are still a few I wouldn't let anywhere near any dog of mine. Alternatively if you tell us roughly what part of the uk you live in, people might be able to recommend clubs they know about.

 

Thanks for the tips Sarah, we do try changing direction, usually when she's totally distracted by something. We're trying walking backwards as well. I do see other dogs that just nicely trot with their owners. I wonder how they managed to make them walk so dignified. I then look at mine charging about or pulling till she chokes herself, literally foaming at the mouth with her tongue out like rabid dog.

@Old Shep
There are few footy pitches but they aren't fully enclosed, they have open entrances behind both goals. We went to one last weekend to try her but she found the exits and ran off to freedom. I think we need to find some tennis courts...

@Speug
We live in Manchester, I'll have a look at the website, thanks for the link!

 

Is she toy motivated?

I find with my GSD that treats have little impact when we are in the big wide world. I use a tug toy when we are out on walks and have seen a huge improvement. I tuck it under my armpit and she focuses on that. After a few min I give her the toy, we play a bit then I take it back and walk on for another while. Rio is very energetic so the lure of a tug game is far greater then hotdogs or cheese.

I am struggling to wear her out with walks now that she is getting older as well so I'm going to invest in a bike and a dog attachment to see if trotting beside the bike will help. I'll let you know how it goes

 

Thanks for the tips Sarah, we do try changing direction, usually when she's totally distracted by something. We're trying walking backwards as well. I do see other dogs that just nicely trot with their owners. I wonder how they managed to make them walk so dignified. I then look at mine charging about or pulling till she chokes herself, literally foaming at the mouth with her tongue out like rabid dog.

A lot of it is age too. It's hard but try not to compare, bet if you talked to those owners many of those dogs wouldn't wait while you get you coats off etc. You sound as though most of your training is really working don't be too hard on yourself. You'll both get there I am sure given how much you have trained her so far.
Toys can work well too I am working on charging up a ball as a training aid for my two, squeakies can also sometimes work but they can also be over stimulating.
I don't know if it's been said but walking on a harness can also make things easier while she is learning and less pull on her neck and your arm.

 

I haven't read all the replies.. but I do agree with Grandad

Or gundog training..............she is a springerador.

When I got Louie - My first Springer x Lab, I was pretty up on training etc, taught him most things, but then started struggling. So I joined an obedience class, Louie won "Most improved hopeless case" and was in the higher class within months. But whilst doing obedience I decided to have a go at gundog stuff, both his parents were working gundogs - might as well give him a go at what he was bred to do.

It has improved his focus, our relationship and he is so much more manageable. He is clever so why not use it. I even taught him how to open my drawers and fetch me things - then go back and close those drawers, helps me and keeps him entertained.

And now I have another Lab x Springer

I'd love to see some photos of her (I'll show you mine if you show me yours )

 

This might seem a little counter-intuitive, but often when a dog has a strong urge to do something the best way to control it is to put it on command. That way, you're not denying your dog a thing that he enjoys but you're choosing when he gets to do it. We've found the approach works very well with our Beagles. Our dogs will defy us if we try and prevent them from having fun but they'll happily offer good behaviour in return for fun stuff.

So that said, how about canicross? Running (or hiking) with your dog in harness. The idea is that your dog wears a comfy pulling harness and is attached to you by bungee and belt. You teach him commands for pulling, faster, easy, left, right and so on and you run around the countryside together having a blast. You decide when you want the dog to keep the line loose and when you want him to help you go faster by pulling. Generally speaking, the dog will be only too happy to run on a loose line and follow all of your commands because the reward it to get to pull like crazy and drag you a long at high speed!!!!

 

in this rain we are having the field i usuallu go to is boggy so i dont go there as i have no wellies either lol
we have a bit of a grassy area its like a big square it has unused roads around it and its just as i walk out of my close
but it isnt enough for her
but i play games with her like i hide behind trees and things when she isnt looking and make a big fuss when she finds me
and i run one way and she runs with me and when she goes off to sniff i unexpectedly start running the opposite way
and do this with her
its doesnt tire her out as much as the field but its the best i can do some days

my girl is ball mad and i could throw a ball forever for her and shed still chase it and bring it back so that usually works
but she is BALL MAD!!! lol

 

If she likes to pull then harness that desire and give her a job where she has to pull!
How about bikejouring(cycling) with her or cannicross(running). Both of them involve her running and,depending on how fast she goes,pulling you too. I do cycling with my beagle and it tires him out so much! You will have to teach directional commands of course but its great to get in to!
Then after you have been cycling or running then you can do a short training session on pulling!
See these videos for loose leash walking,
No Pulling!: Clicker Dog Training - YouTube
How to train your dog not to pull- Loose Leash Walking - YouTube

Look here under loose leash walking,
ClickerSolutions Training Articles Contents
and some more articles here,
http://www.deesdogs.com/documents/letsgoforawalktogether.pdf
http://www.deesdogs.com/documents/strolling_on_lead.doc
http://www.deesdogs.com/documents/loose_leash_diagramed.doc

My own tip would be to reward your dog anytime your dog is next to you.
Most people,don't actually focus on the good behaviours that out dogs offer,i bet there are so many times during the day when our dogs walk next to us and focus on us but we ignore it and then when our dogs dont offer the behaviour when we want it,we give out to them.
So reward him anytime during the day,on or off leash,when he chooses to come and stand next to you,or lure him into that position before dinner and stuff so he learns that next to you is good. Practice in your house on the leash and then take it outside.

but i really think an activity that harnesses your dogs pulling power will help! Agility is good too,i also do that with my beagle and he is always tired when we come home because not only is agility physically demanding its also mentally demanding because the dog has to think about what to do.
I built my own equipment to practice at home,heres where i got my plans,
Agility Bits

Good luck!