Nothing in the video shows any aggression from the dog, so how can one reach any valid conclusion?

 

So what would you classify as aggressive behaviour then?

 

You have one stunning dog there, awesome job with your video editing. And i get what you are saying about the dog, but surely anyone that spent time, love, attention, oh and food, would get similar results. If all humans just tried a little harder to love all animals, the world would be a better place.

 

Hi Frenchie007

You're right that if people spent more time really learning about dogs that they could get the results, that is what I teach people. That anyone can do it with the right understanding.

I didn't use any food, didn't speak, didn't touch, didn't make eye contact, didn't do anything that he might see as being threatening. I didn;t use any of the traditional methods of "training" a dog. As the video says he was at the SPCA and they had given up on him, he would go for anyone that came near him and even chipped two teeth when he launched and hit the bars. The important thing I am trying to show is that even aggressive dogs on Death Row can be reformed.

You obviously have a lot of sense and can see that love goes a long way, it is sad that more people don't put some love and patience into dogs like Cerberus, they could have very loving pets.

 

The video would have been better if it showed some of the aggressive behaviour the dog had before you worked with him to give us a starting point. All there is is 10 seconds of a dog barking in a kennel not looking particularly aggressive and no different to what any dog might do

 

I am sure you did a wonderful job and saved this poor dog's life, but I am afraid I see no aggression in him at all. All I see is the usual frustration of any dog which is locked up in a kennel 24/7. As to dangerous breeds, there is no such thing in my opinion. If people took the time to learn about the traits of the breed they chose to own and to work with those traits, there would be no dog attacks, a lot less rehoming and a happier atmosphere all round.

 

I do understand what you are saying.

The problem here is I didn't film any of this with the intention of making it into a video.

I walked round the SPCA and chose the worse dog I could find to help. When he was at his worst I didn't move for 3 hours, I was literally a statue. The tiniest movement would set him off. I wasn't thinking about filming him at that point, I was thinking about keeping still so that he could learn that I was no threat. He had been beaten with a hose, sticks, had doors shoved into his face and hands, especially moving hands were seen as a major threat. So the footage you see at the beginning of this film is the second time I went to stand by him, he's obviously better, although was still being aggressive.

At this point he still tried to bite a man who got to close.

no different to what any dog might do...
And that's the point, any dog in the wrong situation could behave like this. So if your dog felt threatened enough you would see similar behaviour to Cerberus.

The message I'm trying to send is that dogs behaving aggressively are like that because of feeling threatened. If you take the threat away they will behave normally. Similarly, people are generally not aggressive, but if someone broke into their house and threatened them I'm sure a lot would revert to using force or trying to look scary in order to get the threat away from them.

So what I'm saying is aggression should not equal death, it should be understood as a dog that is very scared. They need to be treated in the right way to change the dogs mind about what is a threat.

If you don't see that Cerberus is theatened in the film then trust me that he was, the point isn't about what footage I got of Cerberus, it's about how you can get very loving dogs out of seemingly aggressive dogs.

And please keep questioning me if you don't believe me. I don't mind that at all. I can't help any owner or dog if you don't understand what I'm trying to say.

 

Newfiesmum.

You are great! I agree with what you said about the dangerous dogs, that is exactly what I wanted to hear! I am very pleased that people have the same opinion as me. People need to understand that it is not a breed that makes a dog aggressive but that it is bad up bringing and the dog feeling threatened. A cuddly labradore pup could be turned into an aggressive dog should the wrong people get hold of them. And pitbulls with the right owners are loving pets.

Thank you so much for that post!

With seeing no aggression in Cerb please read the previous reply from me.

 

I don't think anyone is saying they don't believe you. Just that it would of been nice to see a starting point with the dog to show that there is always hope for an improvement

 

Nobody here is saying they don't believe you. Please don't think that. I think it is wonderful what you have done, but I think it is an established fact that, barring health issues, dogs are usually aggressive out of fear.

Keep up the good work. I am sure you will find lots of other poor canines to rescue.

 

Yeah thanks guys for making it clearer about what you're saying, I do understand that the footage is missing the first step... my family never saw Cerb at the beginning as I went to S.Africa alone, even they have questioned whether or not Cerb was aggressive as he is so calm now. And if I had known that I was going to make a video of course I would have got someone to film him the way he was before.

I really appreciate you replying.

 

Not sure about him been dangerous as he locked up behind bars and lots of dogs behave like that, but he certainly was frightened of people, and you have done a wonderful job with him. Trust has to be earned and you certainly earned his.

 

My mum took on a farm guard dog.. No one could get near him.. he was in a yard with a tow rope round his neck 24/7 you went near you risked been eaten...

She used to go to the yard and chuck him carrots.. it was agreed they could take him and her OH went over to the yard walked up to him with a carrot and popped a lead on him, first time anyone had took that tow rope off him....My mum OH was dragged off.. they took him home which was across the road and took him in the house.. He had never been in a house. Not house trained not had any socialisation with other dogs or people.. My mum had our GSD x Collie and they seemed to bond straight away.. She soon house trained him he soon trusted her and he lived a very happy life till he was pts... Its amazing what letting a wild looking dog of a tether or out of a cage can do... He was a huge dog heading for the size of a wolfhound but GSD looking.. He also had extreme long hair and dred locks.. She had several stone of hair clipped of him whilst sedated and you wouldn't of thought Alaska was the same dog.. x

 

The point of this thread is not to proove that Cerberus was dangerous or aggressive, although I saw him when he was.

The point is to get the message out to people that dogs that seem aggressive are actually just scared. And that they can be reformed and taught that the things they think are threats are actually not.

Everyone so far obviously understands that dogs can behave like that and actually be very loving pets. So I am very happy that there are already understanding people out there. It makes the job of educating people about dogs much easier if we are all sending the same message. Which to me is, learn to respect your dog for being a dog and love them for it. With that understanding the sky is the limit, even for dogs like Cerberus who were going to be put to sleep.

 

There are some very special people out there, that give dogs others have given up on a chance and my mum is one of them special people.. She is willing to give every dog she meets a chance and give them the love and care they need to help them through their life..

 

I am not quite sure of the point of this. Anyone can take a dog that is showing aggression and turn it round - but it still might not be safe in some situations. I dont think that rescue centres should rehome a dog like that though except under special circumstances, as it could too easily be put in a situation where it bites someone - and there are vast numbers of nice dogs having to be pts every day so why not save one of them instead.

I worked in a kennels one summer and there was a dog in the boarding section I was put in charge of that had not been out of the kennel. It had attacked every kennel maid and had to be held off with a broom while being cleaned out. I thought this ridiculous and spent a lot of time watching it and trying to decide what its problem was. Its own lead was clipped on the door and I distractedly picked it up and fiddled with it. Dog totally changed and became excited and waggy so I let it out of the kennel, clipped the lead on and put it out in a run. When it was time to come in I called it and waved the lead around and it came to me.
When I had a day off the relief kennel maid did not follow my instructions an the dog became aggressive and impossible to handle again.

 

Well done and it is fantastic that you had faith in a damaged dog to be able to show him love, kindness and that not all humands are horribe! :thumbup:

 

Welcome to the Forum Sam Browne looking forward to getting to know you
DT

 

1st off well done for helping this dog, but as others have said unfortunately the videos dont show the full story, we have MANY dogs in the kennels where I work that behave like he did in the first video, that once outside the kennel are fine, I also notice that on the first video it stated he was in an open prison? for attaking dogs, yet he was kennelled with another dog and seemed perfectly fine in its company? many dogs do not show their true colours til they are outside a kennel environment. some that appear fine while in kennels become nightmares once in a home and settled, others appear aggressive and mistrusting while in kennels, but once placed into a good loving sensible home become dream dogs.

Mo

 

Well done you for giving him a 2nd chance I agree that it would've been a bonus to see him when you first met him, but anyway, good job!

I am not quite sure of the point of this. Anyone can take a dog that is showing aggression and turn it round

Really? Anyone? If anyone could do it there'd be no aggressive dogs on death row.

I worked in a kennels one summer and there was a dog in the boarding section I was put in charge of that had not been out of the kennel. It had attacked every kennel maid and had to be held off with a broom while being cleaned out. I thought this ridiculous and spent a lot of time watching it and trying to decide what its problem was. Its own lead was clipped on the door and I distractedly picked it up and fiddled with it. Dog totally changed and became excited and waggy so I let it out of the kennel, clipped the lead on and put it out in a run. When it was time to come in I called it and waved the lead around and it came to me.
When I had a day off the relief kennel maid did not follow my instructions an the dog became aggressive and impossible to handle again.

This dog sounds exactly like a Boxer that comes into the kennels i've been working at. On his first stay he bit the manager when she was walking him, leaving the younger staff members too scared to take him out. He'd throw himself at the bars of his kennel, barking and snarling with his hackles right up whenever anyone walked past. On his 3rd day in without a walk i decided enough was enough, walked up to the kennel, showed him the lead and went in. As soon as i lifted the catch he backed away, tail wagging and let me take him out
He was fine after that, but doesn't like people hanging around outside his kennel.

 

To Blitz

Firstly what was your job at the kennel?

No not anyone can turn a dog around, in fact you prooved that yourself by saying that some people were getting bitten by the dog. But anyone can learn to behave in the right way. He didn't have enough time and care to realise that people are not a threat.

In reply to "as it could too easily be put in a situation where it bites someone"... Yes it is true, this is my other point. Responsible ownership is so important to save these dogs. In some situations dogs might bite in defence, just the same as any creature on the planet has the right to defend them selves against a threat. I haven't taken away his nautral flee, freeze and fight responces which is what all living creatures resort to in times of percieved danger, even humans.

If I left him at home on his own and some one broke in and was threatening towards him, he would first try to get away and if he was trapped he would fight. It is my responsibility to protect him from situations like that, and guide him when he needs my leadership. If he ever bites I am the one responsible not him. This is what people need to understand. A lot of people don't take responsibility for their dogs or take precautions to make sure the dog doesn't feel threatened.

So by saying "I dont think that rescue centres should rehome a dog like that" is shutting the door on a lot of very good dogs who are just scared. Many loving, friendly and happy dogs would behave aggressively if they had been in the same situation as Cerberus and the dog that you were talking about.

You need to proove to dogs like these that you are not a threat, it takes time and understanding but if you say "the dog became aggressive and impossible to handle again" that dog is absolutely terrified of humans and needs a lot more time and someone who respects it for being a dog and being scared.

Most importantly you can not rush them, they must learn at their own speed and then they can be fantastic pets.

 

Thanks for the back up there Thorne! We are on the same wave length

 

To Blitz

Firstly what was your job at the kennel?

No not anyone can turn a dog around, in fact you prooved that yourself by saying that some people were getting bitten by the dog. But anyone can learn to behave in the right way. He didn't have enough time and care to realise that people are not a threat.

In reply to "as it could too easily be put in a situation where it bites someone"... Yes it is true, this is my other point. Responsible ownership is so important to save these dogs. In some situations dogs might bite in defence, just the same as any creature on the planet has the right to defend them selves against a threat. I haven't taken away his nautral flee, freeze and fight responces which is what all living creatures resort to in times of percieved danger, even humans.

If I left him at home on his own and some one broke in and was threatening towards him, he would first try to get away and if he was trapped he would fight. It is my responsibility to protect him from situations like that, and guide him when he needs my leadership. If he ever bites I am the one responsible not him. This is what people need to understand. A lot of people don't take responsibility for their dogs or take precautions to make sure the dog doesn't feel threatened.

So by saying "I dont think that rescue centres should rehome a dog like that" is shutting the door on a lot of very good dogs who are just scared. Many loving, friendly and happy dogs would behave aggressively if they had been in the same situation as Cerberus and the dog that you were talking about.

You need to proove to dogs like these that you are not a threat, it takes time and understanding but if you say "the dog became aggressive and impossible to handle again" that dog is absolutely terrified of humans and needs a lot more time and someone who respects it for being a dog and being scared.

Most importantly you can not rush them, they must learn at their own speed and then they can be fantastic pets.

Fantastic what you have done, but i would hate to think that anyone thought that all aggresive dogs are aggresive because they are scared of humans, some are just plain aggressive through bad breeding wrong breeds for some owners both those applied to us, there are so many factors that has to be taken into consideration before it decided the dog is pts or training is taken on.

 

To Moboyd

He was in the same kennel as his Mother. So yes he was fine with her. And absolutely brilliant with his pups and the pups mum. They were a pack living on the same property in the prison. He was the Alpha male defending them from any street dogs that came too close. As a result he had become a nuisance on the prison and was reported to the SPCA.

And another good point that you made about dogs not showing their true colours when they are in kennels. Exactly what I'm trying to say, dogs are judged too fast and too easily. Kennels are stressful environments and the dogs are PTS for being aggressive. Take them away from the stress and take away the threats and you will see much differnet behaviour.

Thanks for your input, it's really great for people who are inexperienced with dogs to read your message.

 

To haeveymolly

For dogs to behave aggresively there has to be a threat, it doesn't have to be humans they are scared of. Many are scared of other dogs, cats, horses, bikes the list goes on and on.

I disagree completely with your statement "some are just plain aggressive through bad breeding" You give anyone who really understands dogs a puppy from an aggressive line of fighting pitbulls, and they would bring that dog up perfectly. Even coming from a fighting family of dogs.

It is the owner not the breed.

Who here knows they could take a pup from a fighting line of dogs and bring it up to be a lovely well behaved dog???