If your dog is chasing the kids and the kids re running around then the kids running around will be exciting the dog and the nipping comes form the excitement.

If the kids are calm the dog will be calm.

Is your wife doing any training with him during the day?

A good solid "Stop!" or "Leave!" would help combat this as not all kids and not all puppies can behave all of the time.

 

Children and dogs should never be left unsupervised. My cocker spaniel was a bit mad with my nephews (aged around 4 and 3) when he was a pup and we kept him in the kitchen and only allowed him access to them on a lead and under strict supervision to stop any bad interaction. Now, he is still a little crazy but he's much better than he was and he loves playing with them in the garden and in the house, he usually just sits next to them. With babies though, he adores them and tries to lick their faces, but we try to stop this as we don't want to encourage it. We don't let him play with any children when he's off lead either as if they fall over, he tries to "rescue" them by licking etc, which could be seen by the child's parent as him trying to be aggressive, biting etc (which it never EVER is) so it's just best not to go there.

I would suggest separating the children and him when you can't have him on a lead. And use clicker training to encourage sitting and calm behaviour around the children. If children run around, he's obviously going to run after them and give chase, so if at all possible, don't allow the children to run when he's in the area. Puppies will be puppies, and we have to teach them the correct way to interact with children. Is he going to training classes?

You could also teach the children how they can teach the dog. For example, you could get them to give the dog a treat when he's sitting etc. So eventually, the dog will sit in front of the children waiting for the treat. I think if children are involved with teaching, it makes them more confident around the dog and be confident enough to stand their ground against the dog if he got too excited, and the dog respects them more too.

 

My cocker was a bit rough with the play biting i went to see a dog trainer to see what she could suggest . Luckly it didnt last long. Cockers are mad as puppies but they do become gorg family pets and generally adore children. Ours use to get to over excited so we use to put in in a crate if he got to much just until hed calmed down a bit. He then learnt if he got to rough he would be removed. I use to just say no gently and remove him just for a min or two. Repeat until he realises what hes done wrong. This worked for mine but other peoplke may have there own methods.

 

Hi

Sorry to hear about the problems you have with Max, to be honest, nipping and chasing and nipping is normal puppy behaviour, but you obviously need to teach the dog that this isn't acceptable. It is essential you get on top of all this behaviour now and that includes the kids!!

Firstly, you must and this is really important, create an area that your puppy can go to and the children are not and I repeat NOT allowed to access, a safe haven where he can go if stressed, or tired. A crate is ideal - with the door open at first, or an area that is out of bounds to the children.

Secondly, get yourself the book 'Pefect Puppy' by Gwen Bailey. You kids are old enough to read some of it too and do some of the charts at the back.

Thirdly, find a puppy class in your area - contact your vets for names or look on the apdt website and get your puppy there, - with your wife and children, so they can all see progress and what is involved. I must admit that the fact your wife is 'fed up and regretting having him now', is of concern, because it is mainly her responsbility during the day, I am presuming particularly the time from 3.30 until you come home, when she is coping with two children - being children and a puppy, doing what puppies do and believe me, it isn't easy!

I think you need to sit down together and make a plan of action, on how it is going to work out.

I would suggest that if the dog has been walked or played with in the garden, a little bit prior to the children coming home - along with a little bit of training ie. basic sits downs, heelwork etc., he should be in a calmer frame of mind when the children come in. To keep the dog calm when the kids come in, they shouldn't take any notice of the dog - as the dog may be excited to see them and they will be excited to see the dog which just makes for a mad moment for everyone. Once the children have come in and settled down (it will be hard for them to understand they can't just run in and mess about with him), Max can have access, but the children are to ignore him.

Without seeing it, I would think the nipping at them is excitment and unfortunatley the more the kids push and run, or scream, the more it will wind him up. The growling is a little more worrying and without seeing it, it is difficult to say what is happening here, but it could be Max's way of saying 'enough' and giving him the space to go away to, where the kids don't go, may help with this, if you think it is more sinister, please seek the advice of a behaviourist.

If he jumps up at all, they must stand still (play statues), not shriek or scream, but turn away, or walk out of the room. I know you have tried ignoring, but if you have interspersed this with pushing away and shouting, it wouldn't have had an effect, because radomly you will have been acknowledging the behaviour by doing this, which makes Max try harder next time!

The children must not run, scream or wind Max up, but be calm when around him. You can, if playing with him and he puts his teeth on you, say 'ouch' very loudly and move away immediately. But the children shouldn't be doing this. When friends come to play, Max is put in his safe place, with a stuffed Kong or something to keep him happy and he is left alone. The children however, can join in with the care, get them to help prepare his food and put it down for him - in his safe place. They can help with brushing - with supervision and do little bits of training - only when you are there!

Generally in the home, have restrictions on Max, a stairgate to stop him going upstairs to the childrens rooms and on their beds. Not being allowed on the furniture atall, only give food when he has done something.

This also means restrictions on the children too and they are old enough to participate in this. I think you need to sit down as a family and explain to them that it is serious and everyone has to change from now on, and tell them how near you are to giving Max up.

The children, MUST NOT, pick up Max atall. They can only play games with him when an adult is present. They must not chase him, or run with him. If he gets excited, they must stand still, walk away, into another room - Max will soon realise that this sort of behaviour means game stops. The children must not give Max any food from their plates, or when they have sweets or crisps. Their friends are not allowed to play with Max either unless you are around. You must really stress and I am sure you have already done this, that Max is not a toy, he is a live animal and they must respect that.

For your wife, a crate or area will help her also have a break from worrying about the dog and the children. It will also help with toilet training, as most puppies will ask to toilet away from where they sleep, however, this is not a place for discipline, it is a safety place. There are some threads on here about crate training, have a read, it will also be in Gwens book.

It is early days for your puppy and everyone settling into a new routine. Having a puppy around with children is pretty nightmarish for a few months, but it will get easier and the novelty factor with the children will wear off!

You just must ensure that you have structure in place for everyone involved and that Max is not comprimised, or put in a position that everyone is going to regret.

Having said all of the above, I just want to make one proviso. If Max's behaviour is in anyway unpredictable, or comes out of the blue, please seek professional bevhaviour advice, speak to your vet for a referral.

Best of luck and please reassure your wife, it does get easier!!! I had a two and a half year old with an elderly collie, a tricky terrier and a 5 month old rescue - we got through it.

 

I have a year old Golden Cocker and i remember this phase all too well I also have children, bit youger than yours though.

If he gets overexcited we found timing him out in a quieter place (not the crate) worked quite well but it took persistence and time for him to get that if he was too excitable he lost all attention.

They are bouncy things though Cockers but it should improve. Be very clear with the children about the rules (my 6 year old was rubbish and would do ALL the things i told him not to do). I had to sit him down in the end and explain in no uncertain terms exactly what would happen to Oscar if he kept revving him up and he bit him, that helped him understand :thumbup1:

K8t has given fabulous advice :thumbup1:

With Oscar we found it all calmed down a bit at about 5/6 months

 

Thanks for the helpful comments.

Have stuck with the moving him to a separate place / ignoring routine, and that seems to be working better.

Both my wife and I have noticed that Max is a lot better when there's just the two of us, when the kids have gone to bed. Need to work on getting the kids to leave him alone and not get him so excited (I think it's harder to trrain the kids than the dog !)

One other thing Max has started doing is humping my t-shirt / leg (and my son). He doesn't do it to my wife / daughter, so I'm wondering if this is a dominance thing ?

 

Thanks for the helpful comments.

Have stuck with the moving him to a separate place / ignoring routine, and that seems to be working better.

Both my wife and I have noticed that Max is a lot better when there's just the two of us, when the kids have gone to bed. Need to work on getting the kids to leave him alone and not get him so excited (I think it's harder to trrain the kids than the dog !)

One other thing Max has started doing is humping my t-shirt / leg (and my son). He doesn't do it to my wife / daughter, so I'm wondering if this is a dominance thing ?

yeah you need to stop that - tell him No in a stern voice every time he does it. Mika used to do that to us at a very early age of 11 weeks and we'd stop him with a gentle tap on the bum and say no. He'll soon learn humping on you is not a good thing.

 

re post #7 - claw

One other thing Max has started... humping my t-shirt / leg
(and my son). He doesn't do it to my wife / daughter, ...(I wonder)
if this is a dominance thing ?

hey, claw! :--)
short answer?
nope, not *dominance*, LOL.

longer answer?
he probably came from an androgenized litter - lotsa brothers, few bitches.
if there is a vet near U who does juvie-neuters, i would simply desex ASAP.
M-pups can be safely snipped anytime they have passed 2# weight.
juvie-desex is less bleeding, less scarring, and heals faster, with fewer complications.

if no one does juvie-neuters, simply interrupt him by using a LEASH or a
DRAG-cord, Not! grabbing his collar or scruff, to remove him,
and lead him off to one side. offer him a chew-toy or fling a fetch-toy to
get him engaged in something besides humping.
if he re-offends, announce *Whoops!* cheerfully, or some such casual
indicator, and take him off to his crate for maybe 30-seconds (Yes, i mean
that literally).
the reason for giving him an immediate-opp to Sin Again is because dogs
+ pups learn via REPETITIONS + Consequences - many opps to make
the same error, and get the same un-emotional, simple, SHORT time-out,
means that the pup will not have time to get wound-up and frustrated
in the crate, and bark, whine, dig at the door, chew the sill, etc.
instead, he does A, U sequester him, he does A, U sequester him, and
he FINALLY gets the hint - Do Not Hump, or life gets *** boring ***.

both adults need to do this consistently, so if he begins humping when
Ur wife is home solo, she may need to set-up a gated area or tether
him in an area where he is visible, but separated from the kids.
U have to out-persist the pup / dog... so just be fixed in Ur intention;
he humps, he Goes Away... only for a short time, to avoid CREATING
other mis-behaviors, and also make the connection clear to the pup.

cheers, and happy training!
--- terry

 

if he re-offends, announce *Whoops!* cheerfully, or some such casual
indicator, and take him off to his crate for maybe 30-seconds (Yes, i mean
that literally).

I wouldn't put him in his crate - why would you do that, the crate is supposed to be used as a positive thing not negative so it sounds to me as if you're saying that put him in his crate as a punishment thing. If you do that the pup isn't going to want to go near his crate at all!

 

Hi

One thing improved, another one surfaces!

Humping is him starting to grow up sexually and maybe coincides with the getting overexcited, it is not really a sign of 'dominence', just sexual play - all young animal indulge themselves a little! Some dogs do more than others, even bitches.

The theory is that puppies in the womb absorb the Testosterone or Oestrogen of the other puppies in the litter. More males, the more likely to be testosterone led, even the females (I had a very strong bitch who would hump occassionally). If you are choosing a puppy it is an interesting exercise to find out the make up of the litter - but I digress...

I don't think there are many vets in the UK who will castrate physically until your dog is matured ie. around 7 months old (testicles fully descended) - sorry to be so graphic, I have known them to do 'chemical' castration, but to be honest this isn't your problem.

Your puppy, like your children, has to learn this is not acceptable behaviour in public so , interupt the behaviour - don't drag off - but try and distract him, you could use a firm 'no', and then as he comes away, praise and give him something else to do that is more constructive i.e. a Kong or do some training just sit and down, or watch etc. etc. Channel his 'enthusiasim' elsewhere!

If he won't distract, then you could put a short trailing lead on him, so you can give this a tug, but don't grab collars etc., as he is excitable enough anyway and this won't help. Better still try and pre-empt situations that start it and NEVER laugh or encourage it. Remove what he is humping as soon as he is called off, so he can't go back to it. Ask chid to stay still and not screech, or laugh or run, as this adds to the wind up.

If you do use 'timeout' that is good, but not in the crate/puppy area, as you have been told, crates are positive places, not for naughty puppies, you could though put the puppy in the crate/area after you have done your distraction and another action - i.e. sit or down, so he doesn't associate the discipline with the crate, but gives him time to calm down.

Interesting it isn't the wife and daughter, I expect they are giving off different vibes to you and your son, females naturally move differently and sound differently, also play differently with dogs and dogs will pick up on this. That is why when you have a puppy you want them to meet different genders as much as possible and why some dogs are fearful of men or women, although it tends to be more the latter, because women are more likely to do the caring.

Don't worry too much about it, these are all 'typical' behaviours you would expect to see in a growing puppy, finding out about his environment and what goes and what doesn't! Not in front of the vicar though!!

Kate

P.S If you are still having aggression problems, or any unpredictable behaviour that worries you, please, please consult a behaviourist. Unfortunately some Cocker Spaniels have been bred for their looks and not their temperment, although good breeders are improving things with only breeding from good tempered dogs, there are still some breeders who are not and these are not the easiest of dogs in a family home.

 

re post #10 - ad-1980


hey, ad! :--)

i have used crates for time-outs for decades, literally - none of the pups or dogs have learnt to see their crate as a terrible place, to be dreaded or unhappy in; rather, they have all entered open-doored crates on their own, to nap in peace, chew a toy, escape noisy visitors, etc.

it has simply never been an issue, not once - and a time-out is SHORT.
specifically, for such a young pup, 30-secs or even less; it only *marks* the undesired behavior clearly, with a short, pointed consequence.

the pup is NOT supposed to be languishing in the crate for 30-MINUTES after a 30-second attempt to hump, that would be ridiculous and is entirely not the intention of my post; time-outs are interruptions, not long-term banishment!

i hope this clarifies, Cheers!
--- terry

 

Hi

Sorry to hear about the problems you have with Max, to be honest, nipping and chasing and nipping is normal puppy behaviour, but you obviously need to teach the dog that this isn't acceptable. It is essential you get on top of all this behaviour now and that includes the kids!!

Firstly, you must and this is really important, create an area that your puppy can go to and the children are not and I repeat NOT allowed to access, a safe haven where he can go if stressed, or tired. A crate is ideal - with the door open at first, or an area that is out of bounds to the children.

Secondly, get yourself the book 'Pefect Puppy' by Gwen Bailey. You kids are old enough to read some of it too and do some of the charts at the back.

Thirdly, find a puppy class in your area - contact your vets for names or look on the apdt website and get your puppy there, - with your wife and children, so they can all see progress and what is involved. I must admit that the fact your wife is 'fed up and regretting having him now', is of concern, because it is mainly her responsbility during the day, I am presuming particularly the time from 3.30 until you come home, when she is coping with two children - being children and a puppy, doing what puppies do and believe me, it isn't easy!

I think you need to sit down together and make a plan of action, on how it is going to work out.

I would suggest that if the dog has been walked or played with in the garden, a little bit prior to the children coming home - along with a little bit of training ie. basic sits downs, heelwork etc., he should be in a calmer frame of mind when the children come in. To keep the dog calm when the kids come in, they shouldn't take any notice of the dog - as the dog may be excited to see them and they will be excited to see the dog which just makes for a mad moment for everyone. Once the children have come in and settled down (it will be hard for them to understand they can't just run in and mess about with him), Max can have access, but the children are to ignore him.

Without seeing it, I would think the nipping at them is excitment and unfortunatley the more the kids push and run, or scream, the more it will wind him up. The growling is a little more worrying and without seeing it, it is difficult to say what is happening here, but it could be Max's way of saying 'enough' and giving him the space to go away to, where the kids don't go, may help with this, if you think it is more sinister, please seek the advice of a behaviourist.

If he jumps up at all, they must stand still (play statues), not shriek or scream, but turn away, or walk out of the room. I know you have tried ignoring, but if you have interspersed this with pushing away and shouting, it wouldn't have had an effect, because radomly you will have been acknowledging the behaviour by doing this, which makes Max try harder next time!

The children must not run, scream or wind Max up, but be calm when around him. You can, if playing with him and he puts his teeth on you, say 'ouch' very loudly and move away immediately. But the children shouldn't be doing this. When friends come to play, Max is put in his safe place, with a stuffed Kong or something to keep him happy and he is left alone. The children however, can join in with the care, get them to help prepare his food and put it down for him - in his safe place. They can help with brushing - with supervision and do little bits of training - only when you are there!

Generally in the home, have restrictions on Max, a stairgate to stop him going upstairs to the childrens rooms and on their beds. Not being allowed on the furniture atall, only give food when he has done something.

This also means restrictions on the children too and they are old enough to participate in this. I think you need to sit down as a family and explain to them that it is serious and everyone has to change from now on, and tell them how near you are to giving Max up.

The children, MUST NOT, pick up Max atall. They can only play games with him when an adult is present. They must not chase him, or run with him. If he gets excited, they must stand still, walk away, into another room - Max will soon realise that this sort of behaviour means game stops. The children must not give Max any food from their plates, or when they have sweets or crisps. Their friends are not allowed to play with Max either unless you are around. You must really stress and I am sure you have already done this, that Max is not a toy, he is a live animal and they must respect that.

For your wife, a crate or area will help her also have a break from worrying about the dog and the children. It will also help with toilet training, as most puppies will ask to toilet away from where they sleep, however, this is not a place for discipline, it is a safety place. There are some threads on here about crate training, have a read, it will also be in Gwens book.

It is early days for your puppy and everyone settling into a new routine. Having a puppy around with children is pretty nightmarish for a few months, but it will get easier and the novelty factor with the children will wear off!

You just must ensure that you have structure in place for everyone involved and that Max is not comprimised, or put in a position that everyone is going to regret.

Having said all of the above, I just want to make one proviso. If Max's behaviour is in anyway unpredictable, or comes out of the blue, please seek professional bevhaviour advice, speak to your vet for a referral.

Best of luck and please reassure your wife, it does get easier!!! I had a two and a half year old with an elderly collie, a tricky terrier and a 5 month old rescue - we got through it.

Can I just say what an amazing post...and so much helpful information, must have taken you ages!! When our pup arrives I will have that on my kitchen wall to remind us all what we should be doing!!