Good breeders breed aggressive traits out of their breed by only using dogs with good temperments- it's just the numpties that breed for aggression

 

I'm sorry but I can't agree at all, well socialised dogs of ANY breed are just that, badly socialised and trained dogs are just that, and can be any breed. My brother has a rescue staffie who hadn't had the best start in life, and has kept staffies for years, all of his have been incredibly friendly dogs. Ok so they're not as dog orientated as other breeds, but that doesn't mean they should be resigned to the scrap heap as a breed, they've made great family pets and have all had fabulous characters.

Bad breeders and owners need banning, there's no such thing as a bad breed overall, although you will get a dog that is 'wired' wrong from time to time, they're an exception, not a rule where good breeders are concerned.

 

So are you saying we should wipe out staffies and Akitas if so thats a bit ridiculous. Staffies and Akita's are perfectly fine with the correct training and socialisation like ANY dog.

What about show cockers that have that "cocker rage syndrome" should we wipe out all cockers? If so it that would mean wiping out your breed of dog...Doesn't feel to great to hear does it?

People like different breeds doe different reasons.
ALL dogs can be human and dog aggressive. German shepherds, Collies, Yorkies, JRT, cockers, Springers the list is endless. It's about the dog itself. Only good examples of each breed should be bred from. My English setter is a stunner of a dog perfect example of the working type and healthy but we wouldn't EVER breed from her as she is skittish.

I'm not sure whether you're talking about not breeding from certain dogs within the breed, which is obvious anyway or just stop breeding some breeds which tbh is ridiculous.

 

In this society, I do not believe that we should be breeding dogs that have breed traits which relate to aggression. Staffies for example are renowned for dog aggression. IMO dog aggressive dogs shouldn't be bred, only dogs with good temperaments should be bred. Akitas are renowned for stranger-aggression. IMO stranger-aggressive dogs shouldn't be bred.

In this modern society, the vast majority of dogs are kept as pets and as such need to fit into our lifestyle and our way of living. Most owners aren't experienced dog trainers and therefore trying to train a breed of dog which already has an aggressive trait, into a well rounded pet is very difficult and sometimes impossible, which is why many dogs end up in rescue centres.

Although breeders will say "its the way the breed is", I don't buy this. We live in a very different society than we did when these breeds were created. Many dogs do not have a job or purpose now, other than being a family pet. IMO there is no room for guard dogs, or dogs with aggressive traits when the vast majority of pups born from these breeds will be pets and need to live in a tight community, with many dogs and people around them.

Breeding these traits into dogs is a disaster. I admit that if you train any breed of dog correctly, none will be aggressive, however the vast majority of dog owners can not handle such breeds or traits and therefore there is far more likely chance of the dog attacking and being put to sleep if there is already an aggressive trait bred into it.

All breeding dogs MUST have a superb temperament, very friendly to people, strangers, children, other dogs, and other animals. Breeding from dogs with far from perfect temperament is just asking for trouble, whatever the breed standard says.

I just want to pick up on your point i've highlighted, alot of "guard" breeds r used in military and police environments to great affect, they r very easy breeds to train in the right hands, u must understand your chosen breed and traits,they r not for everyone granted, I have 2 Rotts and have owned htis breed for 15 years, neither r that guardy, more like couch potatoes, both do obedience, one I use for show, they do have a purpose, IMO a very valid one, my parents own staffs, again lovley dogs in the right hands, it's more down to educating the numpties and pet owners on their repsonsibilities to their chosen breed and dog onwership in general rather than down to specific breeds, some jus shouldn't own anything, let alone a dog

I had a few dogs in my time and can honestly say the ones we had some problems with were Labs and JRT's

 

Did I say that staffies and akitas should be banned? I said that aggressive traits shouldn't be bred into the breed, so well tempered akitas and staffies should be bred. Basically all good breeders who breed good temperaments into their breeds, carry on. But the bad breeders who breed dogs with questionable temperaments that are supposed to be breed traits, shouldn't be breeding.

 

I'm sorry if i have read your post incorrectly but i comes across like you are saying that there is no place in society for staffies as they can be dog agressive. That is a horrible generalisation. I have a 2 year old staffie bitch, we have done LOTS of socialisation with her and we have a happy dog friendly staffie, she loves to play with other dogs, loves people and loves life. Infact my staffie has been attacked three times in her life, twice by different boxers and once by a lab, on every occasion she hasn't really retaliated, she cowers and cries and tries to get away, she is very submissive. After every incident we have done lots of postive work eith other friendly dogs so she doesn't become upset by the attack and we still have a dog friendly staffie. Why should my dog have no place in society? Surely the boxers and the lab that attacked her have no place in society? (I am not saying that i think boxers and labs have no place in society, i don't for one minute blame the dogs that attacked her i blame the owners, as every time thay have made some comment, oh she can be funny with staffies, oh she can be funny with other bitches and oh he can be funny with littler dogs, well sorry it is obvious that my dog is a staffie, is a bitch (wears a bright pink harness) and is smaller than your dog so keep them away from her!!!)

 

I'm sorry if i have read your post incorrectly but i comes across like you are saying that there is no place in society for staffies as they can be dog agressive. That is a horrible generalisation. I have a 2 year old staffie bitch, we have done LOTS of socialisation with her and we have a happy dog friendly staffie, she loves to play with other dogs, loves people and loves life. Infact my staffie has been attacked three times in her life, twice by different boxers and once by a lab, on every occasion she hasn't really retaliated, she cowers and cries and tries to get away, she is very submissive. After every incident we have done lots of postive work eith other friendly dogs so she doesn't become upset by the attack and we still have a dog friendly staffie. Why should my dog have no place in society? Surely the boxers and the lab that attacked her have no place in society? (I am not saying that i think boxers and labs have no place in society, i don't for one minute blame the dogs that attacked her i blame the owners, as every time thay have made some comment, oh she can be funny with staffies, oh she can be funny with other bitches and oh he can be funny with littler dogs, well sorry it is obvious that my dog is a staffie, is a bitch (wears a bright pink harness) and is smaller than your dog so keep them away from her!!!)

no, you've read my post incorrectly. I didn't say that staffies shouldn't be bred, just dog aggressive ones. Well tempered staffies should be bred as they are a lovely breed.

 

Did I say that staffies and akitas should be banned? I said that aggressive traits shouldn't be bred into the breed, so well tempered akitas and staffies should be bred. Basically all good breeders who breed good temperaments into their breeds, carry on. But the bad breeders who breed dogs with questionable temperaments that are supposed to be breed traits, shouldn't be breeding.

It sounded like you didnt think the breeds in general shouldn't be bred. But in this case no of course breeders shouldn't be breeding bad temperaments and the good ones aren't.

 

Sorry read your second post, and I agree to a certain extent, I think it depends on the type of agression, surely fear agression is a socialisation problem, dogs that are agressive because they are fearful of something although not ideal surely can loose the fear agression if better socialised with whatever it is that they are fearful off? I may be wrong on that though.

 

In this society, I do not believe that we should be breeding dogs that have breed traits which relate to aggression. Staffies for example are renowned for dog aggression. IMO dog aggressive dogs shouldn't be bred, only dogs with good temperaments should be bred. Akitas are renowned for stranger-aggression. IMO stranger-aggressive dogs shouldn't be bred.

In this modern society, the vast majority of dogs are kept as pets and as such need to fit into our lifestyle and our way of living. Most owners aren't experienced dog trainers and therefore trying to train a breed of dog which already has an aggressive trait, into a well rounded pet is very difficult and sometimes impossible, which is why many dogs end up in rescue centres.

Although breeders will say "its the way the breed is", I don't buy this. We live in a very different society than we did when these breeds were created. Many dogs do not have a job or purpose now, other than being a family pet. IMO there is no room for guard dogs, or dogs with aggressive traits when the vast majority of pups born from these breeds will be pets and need to live in a tight community, with many dogs and people around them.

Breeding these traits into dogs is a disaster. I admit that if you train any breed of dog correctly, none will be aggressive, however the vast majority of dog owners can not handle such breeds or traits and therefore there is far more likely chance of the dog attacking and being put to sleep if there is already an aggressive trait bred into it.

All breeding dogs MUST have a superb temperament, very friendly to people, strangers, children, other dogs, and other animals. Breeding from dogs with far from perfect temperament is just asking for trouble, whatever the breed standard says.

Did I say that staffies and akitas should be banned? I said that aggressive traits shouldn't be bred into the breed, so well tempered akitas and staffies should be bred. Basically all good breeders who breed good temperaments into their breeds, carry on. But the bad breeders who breed dogs with questionable temperaments that are supposed to be breed traits, shouldn't be breeding.

That is exactly how it reads, and staffies and akitas are not renowned for these things, nowhere in their breed standard does it say they're aggressive or that the should be bred to be.

 

U can have the best behaved dog in the world whatever breed, like i had until she was attacked twice, she is now fear aggressive, this is learned behavior not a trait as such, and something as a responsible onwer have to deal with !

 

In an ideal world only responsible people would breed well natured dogs.

But we dont live in an ideal world. We live in a world where if you get your Stafforshire Bull Terrier pregnant you can sell the pups for £50 each in a pub / on gumtree and make some dosh, esp if you crossbreed and make them larger / bulkier / tougher looking.

In an ideal world all puppys are socialised, everyone has pet insurance and all our dogs have perfect recall off lead.

One point I would like to make is even the best meaning of 'professional' breeders have bred some breeds to match 'Breed Standards' which does not always result in the healthiest animals physically or mentally.

 

That is exactly how it reads, and staffies and akitas are not renowned for these things, nowhere in their breed standard does it say they're aggressive or that the should be bred to be.

I said "Staffies for example are renowned for dog aggression. IMO dog aggressive dogs shouldn't be bred, only dogs with good temperaments should be bred"

That suggests, surely, that good tempered staffies should be bred.

 

There is another interesting discussion in the Dog breeding section "As breeders" is the title.
Good breeders should never breed from stock (Sire and Dam) that exhibit aggression. I do agree with previous comments the most important thing you can do for a puppy is SOCIALISE it. I keep on and on about this to my puppy owners I have their first vaccine done at 8 weeks the second should be done at 10 weeks and then get them out there meet everyone and everything.
Socialisation helps many breeds overcome their "breed traits". I know it may be a cliche but I do thing there are no such things as bad dogs just bad owners.

 

I said "Staffies for example are renowned for dog aggression. IMO dog aggressive dogs shouldn't be bred, only dogs with good temperaments should be bred"

That suggests, surely, that good tempered staffies should be bred.

Read it again hun I can see where the misunderstanding came from

 

Read it again hun I can see where the misunderstanding came from

oh yes, I can see it now. sorry guys, should have worded it like "only staffies with good temperaments should be bred".

 

In this society, I do not believe that we should be breeding dogs that have breed traits which relate to aggression. Staffies for example are renowned for dog aggression. IMO dog aggressive dogs shouldn't be bred, only dogs with good temperaments should be bred. Akitas are renowned for stranger-aggression. IMO stranger-aggressive dogs shouldn't be bred.

In this modern society, the vast majority of dogs are kept as pets and as such need to fit into our lifestyle and our way of living. Most owners aren't experienced dog trainers and therefore trying to train a breed of dog which already has an aggressive trait, into a well rounded pet is very difficult and sometimes impossible, which is why many dogs end up in rescue centres.

Although breeders will say "its the way the breed is", I don't buy this. We live in a very different society than we did when these breeds were created. Many dogs do not have a job or purpose now, other than being a family pet. IMO there is no room for guard dogs, or dogs with aggressive traits when the vast majority of pups born from these breeds will be pets and need to live in a tight community, with many dogs and people around them.

Breeding these traits into dogs is a disaster. I admit that if you train any breed of dog correctly, none will be aggressive, however the vast majority of dog owners can not handle such breeds or traits and therefore there is far more likely chance of the dog attacking and being put to sleep if there is already an aggressive trait bred into it.

All breeding dogs MUST have a superb temperament, very friendly to people, strangers, children, other dogs, and other animals. Breeding from dogs with far from perfect temperament is just asking for trouble, whatever the breed standard says.

maybe in an ideal world you would need a licence to own these breeds, to stop them getting in to the wrong hands. Obviously this will never happen it would cost to much to police.

 

It read to me that Staffies and Akitas should not be bred, too.

 

Unfortunately we are back to the byb, puppy farm, bad owner debate. I would think that it is a universal wish amonst any and all decent breeders and dog owners to avoid any form of unwanted aggression these days.
I have a dog from a breed that is widely accepted not to have aggressive traits but because of a bad breeder and previous bad owners she does sometimes show fear-aggression.
I really don't know what anyone can possibly do to curtail activity of every bad breeder and every bad owner.

I do appreciate what you are trying to say and agree with the principle though. It is sort of up there with world peace in the 'things that SHOULD happen' list.

 

oh yes, I can see it now. sorry guys, should have worded it like "only staffies with good temperaments should be bred".

Haha thats okay hun You've made your point clear now

 

I would still like to understand your comment "IMO there is no room for guard breeds" ?

 

I have to add that from our experience with Dalmatian Welfare (sorry to bang on about Dalmatians) we have problems with Dalmatians that have not been socialised. The breed standard for Dalmatians says they should be "friendly and outgoing free from fear and aggression."
Well if you could see some of the cases we have had it would break your heart, one case we had a bitch (she was gorgeous) that had been kept in a crate for 4 years (never taken out of her crate the lounge or garden). She was so fear aggressive despite much input from behaviourists and lots of bites later we couldnt help her and sadly we had to have her PTS :cryin:
This is an extreme example but we need to tell everyone that using breeding stock with sound temperaments and early, comprehensive socialisation makes all the difference to a dog and he or she having a happy life.

 

I think it's a well-known fact that only dogs that are healthy and possess the very best of temperaments, should be bred; regardless of the breed. Perhaps I'm missing the point:blink:

 

There is another interesting discussion in the Dog breeding section "As breeders" is the title.
Good breeders should never breed from stock (Sire and Dam) that exhibit aggression. I do agree with previous comments the most important thing you can do for a puppy is SOCIALISE it. I keep on and on about this to my puppy owners I have their first vaccine done at 8 weeks the second should be done at 10 weeks and then get them out there meet everyone and everything.
Socialisation helps many breeds overcome their "breed traits". I know it may be a cliche but I do thing there are no such things as bad dogs just bad owners.

This is an interesting point - do you allow your pups to meet vaccinated dogs prior to the first vacc - there is no risk if they come to your home environment are are vaccinated themselves, presumably.....

 

I would still like to understand your comment "IMO there is no room for guard breeds" ?

Even if this were true, you have no worries, Rotti's are cattle herding dogs.