[SLB]

Until Louie ripped his off, his tags had a silencer around them, haven't gotten round to buying another one yet.

I used to have a bell on Sadie when I was riding so I could hear her and knew which side she was on (bike) so that if she was on my left I wouldn't turn into her by accident.. I needn't have bothered because she was always in front of me.. also because she is black, it was so I could hear where she was in the dark (before all these flashing things).

I think having one on a dog that hunts would be worse because the noise would make the animals run away.. surely? It's great so you can hear where they are but I'm not sure of it really...

 

[smokeybear]

In regard to being 'allowed' to chase I don't really understand where to draw the line. He loves chase even with our other dog, and as part of the recall process I've done the running away and getting him to chase me. I don't know if either of those fuel his desire to chase more, but I don't feel I can stop the first part at least, its a massive part of their play.

Wish I had more money to play with at the minute then I'd get some 1:2:1 with a decent trainer but at £50 a pop I just can't afford it as often as we'd need it. The objectivity of someone else really helps, but on my own its so hard to know what to do when. I know not to set him up to fail and this is partly why he is only semi whistle trained still, I don't want to overuse it and have him not return to it so its only lightly used. But in the same breath there are times I call him thinking he actually will come, that he doesn't and so we do fail anyway. Some days are so much worse than others

For a while I worked on getting him to stop and sit when he saw movement which was OK, but then if I didn't get in first I lost him. Once he begins chase I can't see how I can stop him until he decides to come back so I know its that bit I need to target. Making the chase less appealing to him...

Is your recall 100% in the house as per my article? If it is not it is THERE you need to work, not outside. And when I say 100% I mean 100% ie

1 Signal = 2 Behaviour = 3 Consequence

There MUST be consequences for behaviour and they must be crystal clear to the dog.

My criteria for a recall are:

1 Signal = verbal/or whistle

2 Behaviour = come right back to me immediately without stopping, sniffing, cocking a leg, eating, drinking, playing

3 Consequence = access to me, food, toy, smell, dog (depending on various things)

If I give 1 and the behaviour does not match (2) then the consequence (3) will be a loss of access to me, food, toy, dog, sniff etc.

It has to be THIS black and white.

Dogs do what works.

At the moment, ignoring you "works".

When I give a signal, it is not a request, it is not a nice to have (in a domestic situation).

It could save my dog's life, so failure is not an option.

If your dog is on a line, he cannot actually fail, as of course you can ensure that he DOES come back.

It is simple.

 

[L/C]

I have a bell on Gypsy's harness so I can hear her in the dark and when she's off in the undergrowth in woods. It doesn't seem to bother her at all and gives me a bit of extra peace of mind - not sure if it warns the squirrels or not!

 

[smokeybear]

I think having one on a dog that hunts would be worse because the noise would make the animals run away.. surely? It's great so you can hear where they are but I'm not sure of it really...

Er that is the idea I think!

Of course if you were out on a shoot or a FT, the issue becomes irrelevant as your dog would not be wearing a collar to begin with.

 

[Nonnie]

I always used to have bells on Oscar, to allow wildlife to know he was there well before he got into their general vicinity, giving them a chance to move on, to alert other people and livestock, but mainly so i knew his location and was able to recall him if he started to stray too far. He loved rooting around in the undergrowth and being a red dog, often blended in beautifully.

The noise isnt loud enough to cause irritation or discomfort to a dog.

 

[SLB]

Er that is the idea I think!

Of course if you were out on a shoot or a FT, the issue becomes irrelevant as your dog would not be wearing a collar to begin with.

It may be the idea but in the case of rabbits you can be over the top of them not making a sound and they will lie still - I know because I and the dogs have gone over the top of them and only realised they were there when they ran the other way after we were past them.. But make a sound and they will run - causing a chase which is the exact opposite of what it is supposed to do..

Either that or I've come across some defective rabbits..

 

[smokeybear]

Yeah, rabbits hearing is really bad, they cannot hear us breathing, talking, singing or the sound of our boots pounding the earth.

If a rabbit needed a bell to make itself aware of approaching predators, then they would be extinct by now........

No rabbits lie still when I have been walking my dogs, hares, occasionally, but that is the latter's nature as they have forms rather than burrows.

 

[Cleo38]

Thanks Smokeybear.

Probably sounds like I'm splitting hairs now, but this is where I struggle a bit.

In regard to being 'allowed' to chase I don't really understand where to draw the line. He loves chase even with our other dog, and as part of the recall process I've done the running away and getting him to chase me. I don't know if either of those fuel his desire to chase more, but I don't feel I can stop the first part at least, its a massive part of their play.

Wish I had more money to play with at the minute then I'd get some 1:2:1 with a decent trainer but at £50 a pop I just can't afford it as often as we'd need it. The objectivity of someone else really helps, but on my own its so hard to know what to do when. I know not to set him up to fail and this is partly why he is only semi whistle trained still, I don't want to overuse it and have him not return to it so its only lightly used. But in the same breath there are times I call him thinking he actually will come, that he doesn't and so we do fail anyway. Some days are so much worse than others

For a while I worked on getting him to stop and sit when he saw movement which was OK, but then if I didn't get in first I lost him. Once he begins chase I can't see how I can stop him until he decides to come back so I know its that bit I need to target. Making the chase less appealing to him...

I've highlihted this as I've often read about people saying they don't 'allow' their dog to chase & really don't understand what this means, does it mean they keep them leashed all the time then?

I know how much you've said you struggle with Ruperst chasing & I am in a similar situation with Roxy (Toby will chase but he gives up quite easily ). Roxy would run for miles gievn half a chance.

If she's on a long line then she doesn't chase - she's not stupid & knows that she hasn't got a chance of catching when leashed. I am also very vigilant when out (so much that I start imagining I'm seeing deer!) & any hint of an animal then she's back on her lead.

We practise recall using various methods, I've had several 1-2-1's with trainers, read books, etc & yet she would still chase. She has got better, I can recall her from chasing birds when we do out river walks but if there are too many she starts getting hyped up so goes back on her lead until she has calmed down & we then try again.

Tbh I really don;t think we will ever stop this. I can understand why she does this (or more accurately, will do it - she hasn't had an opportunity to chase anything for ages now as I've always managed to spot things). It's fun & I can understand that there is NOTHING more fun than chasing an animal, no amount of food or fave toy can compete. Maybe I'm cr@p at managing this or maye this rot of training can take years but after a year of working on this I really don't believe I could recall her successfully from a chase

 

[catz4m8z]

I keep meaning to get a bell for Hannahs harness. Being part Daschund the minute she is off the lead she heads straight for the nearest undergrowth or hedge and I end up tracking her progress by watching for birds being flushed.
Also a bell would stop me looking a complete prat when Im standing and calling her from one direction and she comes pottering up behind me!!LOL

 

[Sarah1983]

Cleo38,it's been close to 8 years here and I know damn well I couldn't call Rupert off a chase. He's sentenced to life on a long line unless we're in a fully fenced, secure area. I've just accepted it now to be honest, he no longer lunges and screams and whirls and bucks and rears when he sees cats, birds, horses etc while on leash (still does for sheep though!) but it is obviously still an effort for him to not go after them. And if they get close enough...well lets just say he's had pigeon for dinner a few times despite being leashed.

 

[Manoy Moneelil]

If the dog is hunting cats - the prey might think it's an approaching cat coming through the bushes when hearing a gentle tinkle :thumbup1:

 

[TabithaJ]

I think a bell is a great idea and am going to order one for the collar Dex wears when we go to parks etc.

GOLDENSHADOW:

If it's any help, my dog is a chaser too

SMOKEY BEAR's advice is spot on and will help you - it's helped me

I find that the only way to really get a solid recall is to practise it - relentlessly

I have also found that rewarding with a VERY high value treat helps, as does turning the recall into a quick game, it can be something really simple, but anything where I get to yell praise and sound excited seems to really work with Dexter....

 

[Cleo38]

But if th dog does not retunr immediately then what sort of 'consequence' is there? No treat? No toy? No atttention? Tbh in an environment with no distractions (or running animal) then I have found this works but I have found that there is no reward that comes close to chasing for Roxy.

In an example then, you call your dog; s/he fails to respond - what do you do? Do they get put back on their lead? If so then how do they make the distinction between the failure to respond & the consequence?

The only time a food reward is any lure is if she hasn't been fed & even then it would not be considered if she had an option to chase. I have had relative success with using squeaky ball but I know full well that if she caught sight of something,unless I was so quick to distract her she would be off.

The only effective 'consequence' that Roxy has truly encountered when chasing was to be attacked by a swan. She dived in to the river, the swan turned round, swam towards her & went for her. It continued until she was out of the water. She no longer chases swans Now I just need a rabbit, a deer, a hare. a pheasant, etc to do the same!!

Maybe I am expecting too much or maybe, for some dogs, chasing can never be curbed

 

[smokeybear]

But if th dog does not retunr immediately then what sort of 'consequence' is there? No treat? No toy? No atttention? Tbh in an environment with no distractions (or running animal) then I have found this works but I have found that there is no reward that comes close to chasing for Roxy.

In an example then, you call your dog; s/he fails to respond - what do you do? Do they get put back on their lead? If so then how do they make the distinction between the failure to respond & the consequence?

The only time a food reward is any lure is if she hasn't been fed & even then it would not be considered if she had an option to chase. I have had relative success with using squeaky ball but I know full well that if she caught sight of something,unless I was so quick to distract her she would be off.

The only effective 'consequence' that Roxy has truly encountered when chasing was to be attacked by a swan. She dived in to the river, the swan turned round, swam towards her & went for her. It continued until she was out of the water. She no longer chases swans Now I just need a rabbit, a deer, a hare. a pheasant, etc to do the same!!

Maybe I am expecting too much or maybe, for some dogs, chasing can never be curbed

If you believe that chasing can never be curbed, then your belief will no doubt become a self fulfilling prophecy.

Nature abhors a vacuum and if your dog likes chasing you can transfer this prey drive onto a ball.

I have two dogs with a high prey drive, one has an extremely high prey drive, but they do not chase animals because they have never been allowed to develop the habit.

Have you read David Ryan's book? Have you ever attended a specialist recall workshop?

 

[Sarah1983]

Nature abhors a vacuum and if your dog likes chasing you can transfer this prey drive onto a ball.

I'd love to know how. Rupert knows the difference between a toy and live prey and a toy just doesn't cut it no matter how hard I work on getting him obsessed with it.

 

[happysaz133]

I think I would probably try it, but have the bell detachable, so you only put it on when the dog is offlead.

 

[arlow]

We put one of these on our Lab whenever we go backpacking:

Hunting Bell, Dog Training, Dog Supplies, Hunting : Cabela's

He doesn't seem to mind at all and it helps us keep track of him.

 

[Cleo38]

If you believe that chasing can never be curbed, then your belief will no doubt become a self fulfilling prophecy.

Nature abhors a vacuum and if your dog likes chasing you can transfer this prey drive onto a ball.

I have two dogs with a high prey drive, one has an extremely high prey drive, but they do not chase animals because they have never been allowed to develop the habit.

Have you read David Ryan's book? Have you ever attended a specialist recall workshop?

Sorry, but I just don't belive that my opinion will transfer on to my dog.

Yes, I have read the David Ryan book (& many others) several times now & attended specialist workshops. All were very interesting & gave good advice which has helped (to a degree). I am still not convinced though.David Ryan also advises using citronella collars for some dogs who still chase despite the training recommended. alot of people here disgaree with these - what do you think? Tbh I have always been against things like this but ......

Hopw can a ball EVER be as exciting as chasing a live animal? From my dogs point of view I completely understand why she chases. Again you use the phrasee 'never been allowed to chase' - what does that mean exactly? Were they always leashed? As I said previously idf Roxy is leashed then she rarely tries to chase as she knows she won't be able to, offlead then she will. Hopw can I not 'let' her chase when off lead short or preventing the chase in the first place which is incredibly difficult in some cases as I have to constantly be aware of every single movement or noise.

 

[dorrit]

I used to have a dog that would sneak along the borders in the garden and then pounce on pidgeons and starlings.. We put a bell on her collar which she only wore outside and it cured the killing spree..

I know a woman with a bloodhoud and it does wear a big cow/goat bell round its neck just so she can hear it when he stops baying!
She doesnt want to confine him to a lead all his life but needs to keep him within safe limits..

All tools are subject to the users skill and expectation.. A bell wont cure chasing but it might take the fun out of it and so lessen the dogs enthusiasum..It wont stop a dog running off but might at least give an indication of direction..

Training is best to stop unwanted behaviour but everyone can use a little help now and then and if a bell helps then why not.

 

[smokeybear]

Sorry, but I just don't belive that my opinion will transfer on to my dog.

Ah well we will have to agree to disagree here.

Yes, I have read the David Ryan book (& many others) several times now & attended specialist workshops. All were very interesting & gave good advice which has helped (to a degree). I am still not convinced though.David Ryan also advises using citronella collars for some dogs who still chase despite the training recommended. alot of people here disgaree with these - what do you think? Tbh I have always been against things like this but ......

As I said before, if you wish to remain unconvinced, you will remain unconvinced. I remain equally convinced that you can train dogs to recall reliably and stop them chasing (Although I am willing to concede that for those breeds whose clubs advise never letting them off a lead eg sled dogs, they know best, which is why I would never have one).

the definition of madness is always doing what you have always done and expecting anything to change.

If your training is not working, then your training is not efficient or effective is it?

So you have two choices, change your training or keep your dog on a line.

Hopw can a ball EVER be as exciting as chasing a live animal? From my dogs point of view I completely understand why she chases. Again you use the phrasee 'never been allowed to chase' - what does that mean exactly? Were they always leashed? As I said previously idf Roxy is leashed then she rarely tries to chase as she knows she won't be able to, offlead then she will. Hopw can I not 'let' her chase when off lead short or preventing the chase in the first place which is incredibly difficult in some cases as I have to constantly be aware of every single movement or noise.

No my dogs are not always leashed, they are on the floor, off the lead from 7 weeks old and I start training the recall then, I get them either food or toy obsessed before they start to think about chasing.

If you have no idea of how a ball can be as exciting as live animals I suggest you go and watch people train who have ball obsessed dogs and whose dogs will ignore any sort of livestock.