[hawksport]

Have you ever seen how a dog pathetically wags it's tail as it's about to be skinned alive? No, afraid I cannot compare a dog to a farm animals I don't believe a cow, goat, bull etc. will sit, fetch, find, stay, close, flat, leave or kiss you like a dog - the closest in intelligence is a pig and even that doesn't come close to the love/loyalty of a dog ............. not by a long shot!

In our local RSPCA shop there is a pic of a dog for meat in the Phillipines - it's jaw is so tighy bound that it's nose is like a balloon, it's front legs are dislocated and tied behind it's back - and that counts for nothing eh? Shame on those of you who think this acceptable. These animals are not killed quickly or even sort of humanely like in our abattoirs. Horizon did a tv prog on this once and the dog was screaming as it was being skinned!

Sleep well in your beds and don't let this torture bother you if you can't be bothered to try and halt it just by a simple request - some of us will!

Did anyone say it was acceptable?

 

[metaldog]

Have you ever seen how a dog pathetically wags it's tail as it's about to be skinned alive? No, afraid I cannot compare a dog to a farm animals I don't believe a cow, goat, bull etc. will sit, fetch, find, stay, close, flat, leave or kiss you like a dog - the closest in intelligence is a pig and even that doesn't come close to the love/loyalty of a dog ............. not by a long shot!

In our local RSPCA shop there is a pic of a dog for meat in the Phillipines - it's jaw is so tighy bound that it's nose is like a balloon, it's front legs are dislocated and tied behind it's back - and that counts for nothing eh? Shame on those of you who think this acceptable. These animals are not killed quickly or even sort of humanely like in our abattoirs. Horizon did a tv prog on this once and the dog was screaming as it was being skinned!

Sleep well in your beds and don't let this torture bother you if you can't be bothered to try and halt it just by a simple request - some of us will!

Who said torture didn't bother them? I've read and re-read the whole thread twice now and I cannot see any comments that said it was acceptable to torture dogs

I think we can all agree that dogs are far more intelligent & domesticated than a farm animal.

is the bit of the OP I disagree with. I cannot understand how people are against the torture and slaughter of one animal for food but not another?

For anyone who's interested in getting information on speciesism please watch Earthlings

 

[Malmum]

It is not acceptable to kill and eat any animal imo but if it's done in such a cruel way as it is in the Phillipines then it's even less acceptable. I would think the op thought as this is a dog forum we may actually care about the suffering of dogs where ever they are, I for one didn't realise that if it's for food it would be okay and we can just class it like any other animal people choose to eat!
Difference being these dogs are tortured before they are eaten and that don't sit well with me, as it doesn't ANY animal!

I cannot believe posters are so callous to say what's the difference between dogs and farm animals - there's no difference except the way these dogs are kept and killed. How you can look at your dogs and not feel enough empathy towards these less fortunate dogs is beyond me and frankly surprising after some of the posts regarding your own dogs, talk about double standards! Live and learn eh?

 

[OctodonDegus]

It is not acceptable to kill and eat any animal imo but if it's done in such a cruel way as it is in the Phillipines then it's even less acceptable. I would think the op thought as this is a dog forum we may actually care about the suffering of dogs where ever they are, I for one didn't realise that if it's for food it would be okay and we can just class it like any other animal people choose to eat!
Difference being these dogs are tortured before they are eaten and that don't sit well with me, as it doesn't ANY animal!

I cannot believe posters are so callous to say what's the difference between dogs and farm animals - there's no difference except the way these dogs are kept and killed. How you can look at your dogs and not feel enough empathy towards these less fortunate dogs is beyond me and frankly surprising after some of the posts regarding your own dogs. Live and learn eh?

I'm sorry but NOONE has said they like that these dogs are tortured and no one has said that they want that. Infact I've seen people on here say they want it to be done humanely.

And I'm sorry but I think its callous of people to regard dogs as somewhat more important than any farm animals, Nothing makes them better than any other animal.

The OP didn't say anything about they way these animals where being treated, the OP just said that they are more domesticated and intelligent, than any live stock, which to me is not a good enough reason to eat something.

 

[Lyceum]

It is not acceptable to kill and eat any animal imo but if it's done in such a cruel way as it is in the Phillipines then it's even less acceptable. I would think the op thought as this is a dog forum we may actually care about the suffering of dogs where ever they are, I for one didn't realise that if it's for food it would be okay and we can just class it like any other animal people choose to eat!
Difference being these dogs are tortured before they are eaten and that don't sit well with me, as it doesn't ANY animal!

I cannot believe posters are so callous to say what's the difference between dogs and farm animals - there's no difference except the way these dogs are kept and killed. How you can look at your dogs and not feel enough empathy towards these less fortunate dogs is beyond me and frankly surprising after some of the posts regarding your own dogs, talk about double standards! Live and learn eh?

I don't think there is a single poster here who isn't appalled by the treatment of these dogs, and yes, I look at my boys and wonder how anyone can even think of hurting a dog. Never mind torturing one and eating it. Nobody said that was acceptable.

The point people were making is, as you've said yourself, it's not acceptable to kill and eat any animal. So why should people be horrified by someone eating a dog (taking away the issues with how they are killed - nobody is arguing about the horrificness of that) and don't bat an eyelid when someone eats a pig. What they are saying is an animal life is an animal life, no matter what species that animal happens to be.

had the OP stated the issue was the way in which the dogs were kept and slaughtered then I feel confident saying everyone would have backed the OP up. But the OP said the issue was to ban dog meat, because dogs are after all, better than cows, sheep etc.

It's two entirely different issues.

 

[Cinnebar]

I think you will find that virtually all posters agreed that the conditions that these dogs are kept and slaughtered in are not right. But the same humane conditions need to be imposed for ALL animals not just dogs. Dogs are not a special case because some of us keep them as pets. Pigs, goats, cows and even sheep, when kept in a suitable environment (ie not large scale anonymous farming) can become really tame and loving and are equally deserving of a dignified life and death.
This is the part of the original post that has raised my hackles
I think we can all agree that dogs are far more intelligent & domesticated than a farm animal
Such a sweeping generalisation and so totally wrong

 

[Malmum]

This is what this thread is about - not British farm animals. If you lived there it could be your dog stolen and put in this truck, yet you feel it's not that bad eh? tut tut!

HSUS Video - Channels - International - The Philippines' Illegal Dog Meat Trade

 

[OctodonDegus]

This is what this thread is about - not British farm animals. If you lived there it could be your dog stolen and put in this truck, yet you feel it's not that bad eh? tut tut!

HSUS Video - Channels - International - The Philippines' Illegal Dog Meat Trade

But no one is saying they want peoples dogs to be stolen and eaten, and no one wants them to be tortured. We were only picking up on a sweeping statement the OP made.

 

[Malmum]

I find it incredible that people are saying dogs are no more special than any other animal - that may be true but this thread is about the suffering of dogs in the Philippines not animal welfare in general. It's like putting up a "Save Lennox" thread and people coming on saying "why should we save just Lennox when we could be saving other dogs?" because the thread is about Lennox and NOT other dogs, as this thread is about the suffering of dogs in the Philippines and NOT other animals! To make it worse they are peoples pets, imagine YOUR dog taken and treated this way. THIS is why the op put up the thread in the first place, not for a discussion on ethics in general but to try and help.

Done my bit for the dogs, don't spose it'll make any difference to the cruel b@stards but can only hope!

I don't think it's a sweeping statement, dogs are far more domesticated than farm animals the proof is here, no one on pf has a cow in their house that I know of and they detect drugs and illness, are hearing dogs for the deaf and sight dogs for the blind, herding dogs, guard dogs, gun dogs, bomb detecting dogs, so of course they are more intelligent than any farm animal, no conceivable comparrison! That is a fact and why are we even having discussions when all we needed to do was send a few e mails to try and help these dogs?

 

[OctodonDegus]

no they aren't pigs are the most intelligent domestic animal.

Besides which the link didn't work for me, and the OP didn't say anything about it other than that sweeping statement. And I'm sorry but I don't see dogs as more important than any other animal in any way shape or form, I'd have a pet cow, pig, chicken and sheep myself.

not arguing that they aren't popular pets, and of course the treatment of them should be better, and the illegal trade should be stopped.

 

[Malmum]

Pigs are intelligent as are rats, parrots and dolphins but their learning ability is far more limited than that of the dog, according to a David Attenborough programme a few years ago. Shall see if I can find it on I player, it should still be there. Primates are of course the most intelligent and I think the programme I am looking for has that primate who uses sign language, as well as a very clever border collie.

Still completely off topic though!

 

[OctodonDegus]

Pigs are intelligent as are rats, parrots and dolphins but their learning ability is far more limited than that of the dog, according to a David Attenborough programme a few years ago. Shall see if I can find it on I player, it should still be there. Primates are of course the most intelligent and I think the programme I am looking for has that primate who uses sign language, as well as a very clever border collie.

Still completely off topic though!

I'm sorry but I've read a ton of articles saying that pigs are more intelligent than dogs!

The Intelligent Pig: The Smartest Domestic Animal in The World | Suite101.com

Was Your Meat Smarter Than Your Pet? - ABC News

that is just 2 of the many articles I saw.

So I still stand by my comment that pigs are smarter than dogs sorry!

 

[hawksport]

I really don't see why the intelligence of a species should determine the standard of treatment it is given.

 

[OctodonDegus]

I really don't see why the intelligence of a species should determine the standard of treatment it is given.

It most certainly shouldn't!

 

[myshkin]

It most certainly shouldn't!

If it worked that way my collie would have more rights than some humans I see around

But seriously, for me how an animal is treated ought to be about the fact that it can feel fear and pain and we should avoid causing those things. Intelligence is irrelevant to me.

 

[Malmum]

I really don't see why the intelligence of a species should determine the standard of treatment it is given.

It shouldn't and I don't think that's a point being made, just how intelligent certain animals are that's all. All the discussions in this thread other than the treatment of the Philippino dogs are rather irrelevant as intelligence/farm animals/whether you decide to eat meat or not have nothing to do with the suffering of these poor creatures and suffer they certainly do.

I will put this on the Mal forum as I am interested to see if the wording of the original post will be picked up on more than the plight of these dogs. Will they be as picky or will they be more caring - I shall see!

A recent thread about whether you would holiday in a country that neglects it's dogs - Cyprus was one mentioned - did not generate such negativity and I am rather saddened that this has and purely because of the wording from the op. I thought as supposed dog lovers we could see past that!

 

[LeeM018]

It shouldn't and I don't think that's a point being made, just how intelligent certain animals are that's all. All the discussions in this thread other than the treatment of the Philippino dogs are rather irrelevant as intelligence/farm animals/whether you decide to eat meat or not have nothing to do with the suffering of these poor creatures and suffer they certainly do.

I will put this on the Mal forum as I am interested to see if the wording of the original post will be picked up on more than the plight of these dogs. Will they be as picky or will they be more caring - I shall see!

A recent thread about whether you would holiday in a country that neglects it's dogs - Cyprus was one mentioned - did not generate such negativity and I am rather saddened that this has and purely because of the wording from the op. I thought as supposed dog lovers we could see past that!

I am personally quite comforted by seeing such a reasonable and balanced response from the majority of posters in this thread.

This is a forum for pet lovers (not just dogs). People that come here will have mixed views, allegiences, motives and opinions - but all will share at least a partially common base of having an affinity for animals.

There is a clear distinction between the moral position of eating dog meat and being against the conditions that they (or any animal) are kept in the lead up to their death.

The former issue is a personal choice that can be effectively argued from either side and is completely aligned to and dependant on the individual. The later is an example of needless cruelty in the name of human convenience which should not be defended and is indeed morally indefensible.

Your posts appear to be merging the points into one and the same thing. Everybody has a view on whether they find eating dog meat acceptable...but everybody is unanimous that where it does happen it should be a humane process. Nobody has said they support cruelty to dogs or any animal and just as importantly nobody feels that they have unimpeachable right to impose their morals on other cultures. That would be like a vegetarian refusing to feed their dog a diet of meat.

 

[Sarah1983]

I would have no problem with people eating dogs as long as they were kept and killed humanely. Not everywhere sees dogs as pets and who are we to tell them what they are and are not allowed to eat?

The conditions the dogs are kept in and how they are killed is another matter entirely though.

 

[Linden_Tree]

If we're petitioning to ban the inhumane rearing and slaughtering of dogs within the Phillipines, then surely we should petition for ALL animals?

Why label dogs as being more deserving of a humane death than any other animal intended for human comsumption?

Who are we to judge when we allow the cruel, ritual slaughter of various species for religious purposes?

As i read it though, it is actually illegal to kill and eat dog within the Phillippines (although there appears to be a few exemptions), but it is a law that is not enforced and this it what the petition is about.

 

[Malmum]

As I said earlier this thread is about one specific group of animals, the clue is in the title. If you don't want to try and help then don't, there is no need for further discussion as anyone who wishes to help many different animals can join and donate to IFAW, it's what they are there for and they do a wonderful job! I suppprt them but wonder how many in this thread do!