Hi - I just wanted to share that an advisor at GCCF told me a breeder does not have to test their cats for HCM if it is being sold as a pet only.

 

What is a GCCF advisor? Do you mean you spoke to one of the office staff? There are only some breeds of cats that would be routinely tested for HCM such as those who have been identified as having a breed disposition and/or with a DNA test available. I am afraid you would have to look at the individual breed's registration policy to find out the recommendations. Sadly HCM is fairly common in all cats, both pedigree and non-pedigree, and is more likely to affect males.

 

Good breeder will test cats to make sure they have healthy kittens, not because they have to, they will do it because it is important for them

 

The stud owner has put their price up, the vets fees have gone up. the food is costing more - so many things to factor in to the cost of raising a litter of kitten

Tali's breeder was apologetic when we first (and pretty much only time) discussed price as she had recently had to put her price up. Kind of amused me as the price was less than I feared and if she and her line lived in another part of the country Tali would have probably have cost twice as much.

Its a shame (but understandable I guess) that location can have such an impact aswell

 

Market forces are always at work in a capitalist society @Smuge.

 

I have found that the best breeders don't act like they want to sell too readily. I felt that I had to go through hoops to get my hands on my Burmese kitten - and rightly so. Who can't find a little blue bundle of fluff adorable? The breeder saw how I was with the adult cats first and when I saw the house 'matriarch' and said that she was just what I wanted in a cat, we were allowed to see the kittens. She has been with me 16 years now. All of our cats have been home visited with the mother (and once even the father) and there has been as much checking out of our lifestyle, where we live, what we understand about security and care, vets, insurance, etc as we have asked about the kitten. All have come with the extended kitten insurance for health and vet cover. All have come fully vaccinated and full of fun and bounce. We've not always been lucky: our Bengal had a few temperament issues, but they were his own nature as we discovered, rather than being an issue with the breeder or his early life and treatment (frankly he was bonkers and territorial but he grew to trust us completely). Our lovely Snowshoe boy (my avatar) developed a desperately aggressive cancer but was the sweetest natured cat ever. So you can never guarantee that even the most careful choice of a beautiful healthy cat is going to work out perfectly. On Maine Coons, three years ago we searched for a companion for our newly bereft Burmese who was destroying our house in frustration and we did not go in search of a Maine Coon. But one found us via a rehoming service and, being honest, we were selected for him rather than us doing the choosing! But so many people are told that they have Maine Coons when really it's a cross bred big cat, so much so that when we took him to the vet for his registration check-up and told the nurses that we had a Maine Coon there was a bit of scepticism. Then one of them looked in the carrier: "That's a REAL Maine Coon!" and everyone came to have a look.

 

But so many people are told that they have Maine Coons when really it's a cross bred big cat, so much so that when we took him to the vet for his registration check-up and told the nurses that we had a Maine Coon there was a bit of scepticism. Then one of them looked in the carrier: "That's a REAL Maine Coon!" and everyone came to have a look.

Unfortunately this is the trouble when you have natural looking pedigree breeds, some people immediately try to pass off their moggies as these breeds and ask more money for them accordingly. Maine Coon and bizarrely Persian (kittens were claimed to be dollfaced) were the automatically the 'go to' breed for people selling moggies but I've noticed that the Siberian has been dragged into the fray now, as they have become more popular.

 

We are presently going through getting two pedigreed kittens ( Cornish Rex), we first went to the breeder who bred our recently deceased 12-year-old Cornish Rex, all of her litters were already taken, we went through the Rex Cat Association breeders list. I have seen several kittens listed in an online pet for sale forums but I'm leery of taking one from breeders who aren't registered with a cat society ( do they know what they are doing genetically, do they have ethics or is it a scam). Due to the scarcity of the breed we paid a deposit of £100 to hold the two kittens, we chose two particular kittens. In the past, I normally went to the breeder and chose kittens based on which one seemed to want to be with me. This breeder is a good 3-hour drive away so everything was done online. I think we will go visit the breeder before picking up the kittens at 13 weeks.

 

A deposit isn't unusual. I paid £150 for my Snowshoe and £100 for my Burmese (deposits only) some years ago.

 

We have a pedigree Norwegian Forest cat. She has just turned three years old and we haven't had her spayed yet as we were/are keen to breed her before doing so.
We're keen to do this as officially and responsibly as possible. I have just applied to join the Norwegian Forest Cat club (NFCC) (I've had an application form since we got Annikka as a kitten but haven't thought of applying until now).
However, I was lead to believe that we won't be able to list any kittens from Annikka as pedigree as she isn't listed as a breeding cat. I never understood this, and wondered how it would be possible to register her as a breeding pedigree cat?
This is a question I plan to put to the NFCC also but I'm awaiting confirmation of my membership so thought I'd ask on here for now

Thanks,
Rob

 

We have a pedigree Norwegian Forest cat. She has just turned three years old and we haven't had her spayed yet as we were/are keen to breed her before doing so.
We're keen to do this as officially and responsibly as possible. I have just applied to join the Norwegian Forest Cat club (NFCC) (I've had an application form since we got Annikka as a kitten but haven't thought of applying until now).
However, I was lead to believe that we won't be able to list any kittens from Annikka as pedigree as she isn't listed as a breeding cat. I never understood this, and wondered how it would be possible to register her as a breeding pedigree cat?
This is a question I plan to put to the NFCC also but I'm awaiting confirmation of my membership so thought I'd ask on here for now

Thanks,
Rob

You would need to have asked her breeder at the time for her to be registered for breeding. If you want to breed it really is best to be upfront with the person you are looking at getting a kitten from and if it wasn't mentioned when you got Annikka I doubt that her breeder would be very receptive about changing her registration now. To breed from her without that permission would make you a back yard breeder and it would be unlikely that you would find anyone who would allow you to use their stud.
My best advice would be to have Annikka spayed and if you are serious about breeding start talking to other breeders within the NFCC or at cat shows. They will want to see your dedication to the breed not just having a girl to have one litter

 

She is a little mature now for her first litter, but I don't want to discourage you long term as everyone has to start somewhere. Cats don't feel any great maternal instinct until they have a bundle of fluff suddenly appear and then they - mostly - have an urge to care for it. It's not a given that a cat will look after her kittens well, or even be able to. The noises that you are hearing aren't an urge to have kittens and it's probably driving unneutered males mad for miles around! My sister had a pedigree pet cat and was in the same situation as you. Firstly, check on your purchase agreement because it is possible you signed it to say that you would not breed from her. My sister contacted the breeder of her cat and said that she wanted to let her cat have some kittens but understood that they would not be registered kittens. As it was, the breeder had a very inexperienced (and unrelated) boy that wasn't getting it on with the ladies and she wondered if he would respond to my sister's cat. He did, the two kittens were unregistered and had no pedigree certificates, rehomed to friends in caring homes, the boy went on to provide services to registered pedigree ladies and everyone was happy. My best advice would be to get to know a bit more about breeding and work with a breeder, maybe someone with a stud boy, who can advise you. A kitten for breeding is generally more expensive and she will need a couple of additional vaccinations generally, as well as potentially a few more tests for some specific breeds to show that she is free of breed-related conditions. It might also help to show her a few times to get some feedback on how she looks and her good points: a kitten with a 'certificated' mother can be an attractive option for new owners. Lastly, you need to be comfortable with the idea that you will be out of pocket after visits to the vet, registrations, micro-chipping, food, vaccinations, showing and everything else included...

 

I'm going to presume that nobody here would advise we became a "backyard breeder," and I imagine finding a decent, well cared for male stud cat would be no easy feat. So perhaps getting her spayed will be the best option.

Yes getting her spayed is the right thing to do in this case. I would suggest that if you are keen to go into breeding that you approach Annikka's breeder and explain that you would like to start breeding and would they be prepared to help and mentor you. You absolutely must have a mentor when you start out. I personally think that all breeders should show, particularly when starting out, otherwise you will never understand type. Breeding isn't about fluffy kittens, it's about breeding kittens to meet a strict standard of points. Research which tests your breed is subject to. Setting aside an £1000 emergency fund is also a good idea. Breeding pedigree cats properly, ethically and responsibly is expensive and not for the faint hearted.

 

Information provided by @OrientalSlave
Why buy a Registered Pedigree Kitten?

A registered kitten will be bred from two parents who are on the active register, and the female will be registered as owned by the breeder. It should be at least 13 weeks old, fully vaccinated, and ready to leave its breeder. Additionally the GCCF will not register kittens where the parents are from very close matings, and if there are required health tests for the breed the parents must have had them. Note that there are additional health tests for some breeds which whilst advisable are not required by the GCCF.

In contrast BYBs are often breeding from at least one unregistered cat, or cat registered non-active. Most kittens are placed on the non-active register in the expectation that they will be neutered, and have been brought as pets only. Obviously people breeding from these kittens have fibbed when they brought them.

BYBs may well offer a fake pedigree, and they love selling 8-week old kittens as most of the cost of rearing a kitten is after that age. At 8 weeks the kitten has not been vaccinated, may well not have been wormed, and is only just weaning. Between 8 & 13 weeks old most kittens are eating as much as an adult, use as much cat litter as an adult, and the female can be mated again PDQ.

If you add up all these costs, an unregistered 8-week old kitten for £350 will end up costing as much as a registered 13-week old kitten, more if it becomes unwell.

So how do I know my kitten is a registered pedigree?

As mentioned many times on Pet Forums, a registered pedigree kitten will come with 'papers'. However, what do those papers look like? What should you receive with a registered kitten?

GCCF

The GCCF is the main registry in the UK, and the bare minimum you should receive with a GCCF registered kitten are:

• A signed pedigree showing at least three generations of cats with their registration and breed numbers, and the breeders name and address. Commonly the fourth generation has the breed numbers only due to space constraints when printing on A4;
• The kitten's registration card, which contains the information you need to transfer the cat or kitten into your name;
• The kitten's vaccination record - the second vaccination should have been given at least a week before you collect your kitten.

If the kitten is already microchipped one of the bar-code labels should be stuck to the vaccination card.

Hopefully you will also receive:

• A receipt;
• Details of worming and any flea treatment (not all kittens get flea treatment);
• Details of a few weeks free insurance;
• Care instructions;
• A toy or two;
• Some food the kitten is used to eating;
• A comfort blanket.

Whilst the GCCF rules do allow for kittens younger than 13 weeks and/or unvaccinated kittens to be sold there is never a good reason for the average pet buyer to buy such a kitten.

Red Flags

• Charging extra to register a kitten;
• Allowing any kitten to be registered active for a bigger price;
• Saying kittens sold as pets don't need to be registered;
• Bringing the kitten from somewhere else in the house for you to see;
• Not allowing you to visit;
• Not allowing you to see the kitten with mother and litter mates;
• Any sign of illness in any of the kittens;
• Litter trays and food dishes should be clean;
• Handing an unseen kitten over in a car park or similar.

What if I can't afford a registered kitten?

There is no denying a registered kitten will cost several hundred pounds. However, as pointed out above, a young BYB kitten can easily cost just as much (or more) after the expenses of a few weeks ownership, and remember that vet bills can easily exceed the cost of a registered kitten.

Additionally buying a pet shouldn't be a spur of the moment thing, giving you time to save up both for the kitten and for a vet fund.

However if you don't want to spend £500 or more but want a cat of a specific breed, consider the breed rescues. Most GCCF breed clubs run rescues which rehome a variety of cats, including those whose owners have passed on and former breeding cats who will be much happier in a home on their own, or with a companion instead of lots of companions. These cats will not be free but where they go from home to home rather than via a rescue pen you may only have to pay the cost of neutering, possibly vaccinations, and a donation to the rescue.

More Information

Some other sources of information are:

• The PetForums 'finding a pedigree cat' thread at https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/finding-a-pedigree-cat.447723/;
• The GCCF Registration policy for the breed. These vary from very simple to very complicated but the important bit is any required health testing. You will find a link if you click on the photo of the breed from their Cat Breeds page, https://www.gccfcats.org/Cat-Breeds;
• GCCF Affiliated Breed Clubs, found in the same way as the Registration Policy. These an help with finding breeders and with finding breed rescues;
• The GCCF Suspension list at https://www.gccfcats.org/About-GCCF/Suspension-List.

 

If someone would like to provide the same sort of information for a TICA registered kitten I will add that too.

 

A link, provided by@lillytheunicorn for kittens registered with Felis Brittanica. Hopefully she will be able to provide an example of the paperwork too
This is the link to information provided by Felis Brittanica (FIFe UK) on buying Kittens. http://www.felis-britannica.org.uk/...4/Pedigree-Kitten-Buyers-Guide-April-2017.pdf

 

Out of interest what do breeders think about potential new owners who (for want of a better word) shop around?

I'm possibly in a situation where we want to visit two different kittens... And I'm feeling guilty about talking to two different (lovely!) breeders!

 

I visited 5 different breeders in different parts of the country when I was looking for my two BSH kittens 20 years ago. It never occurred to me any of the breeders would mind. I did mention to some breeders I had been looking at other kittens.

However once I'd decided on which breeder I liked I asked to be put on her waiting list for a male and female silver. When her silver spotted queen had her litter I visited twice to see the kittens and chose the two I liked, before bringing them home at age of 13 weeks. I suppose I could have looked at another breeder's kittens during that period (I had not at that stage paid any deposit) but it didn't arise because I'd decided I wanted kittens from that specific breeder. None of the other breeders I visited were anywhere near a match for her in terms of how the kittens were being raised and her kittens were bonny, healthy, and super confident.

 

Thanks @chillminx that's put my mind at rest a bit. I've spoken to the two breeders, seen one at a show but so far not visited - and I'm trying to arrange a visit to both. Maybe I am just the anxious type but I was worried about wasting people's time if I decide on one of the kittens and not the other.

When we got our tonks we only visited one breeder, they were local and generally just brilliant. So this is a new experience for us - and we contacted a few breeders in our search and have been talking to all of them on and off for a few months!

 

If you are at the stage where you have only spoken to the two breeders and not yet visited either, I think it is perfectly fine to go and visit both breeders. I found that seeing the set up in the home was a hugely influencing factor for me.

If you really like the whole set-up when you visit the first breeder and you fall in love with her kittens, you may decide it's not necessary to visit the 2nd breeder, and instead decide there and then you'd like a kitten from the first breeder.

I suppose there is always the risk if you like the first breeder and love her kittens, and you walk away that you may lose the chance of having a kitten from the first breeder. Because some one else might come along right after you, and say "yes" straight away. But if everything doesn't feel completely right to you, then I imagine you wouldn't want to say "yes" anyway.

 

Again @chillminx thank you!!!

I want to visit both breeders as this will be a huge factor for me and my OH. We've spoken about it a little after visiting a kitten earlier this year that we walked away from.

So thank you again.. making me more confident we are doing it right!

 

Most breeders will ask that you don't visit more than one on the same day but would perhaps expect a potential kitten buyer to be looking in more than one place.

 

Back with another question... kittens that are healthy, happy, running about and causing havoc - but who have diarrhoea (and third eyelid showing - as did a couple of the adults). Should we be concerned or not?

 

short answer is yes

 

My head was telling me that... but I was hoping I was being overly cautious...

 

The breeder should not have invited you to visit if there was illness in the house.

 

I did wonder, but she said that it initially started after the elder cats got jabs. But some of the adults definitely had a third eyelid showing... which made me think they were under the weather too. She was totally honest and said they'd been unwell...

In all other respects they were seemingly healthy and happy. The little-est kittens were going mad jumping on each other etc..

 

Alarm bells would ring for me. I agree with the others.....walk away@Psygon.

 

I suppose was expecting this response. The cats and the breeder are lovely, I was hoping I was being/feeling overly cautious