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What to look for when getting a Pedigree Cat

118K views 230 replies 29 participants last post by  asper 
#1 · (Edited)
There have been a number of threads lately, both here and on other social media sites from people buying their first pedigree and the difficulties they have faced.

We are all capable of making a mistake, but unlike when you buy a TV that breaks after a week (which is very annoying but you can usually get a replacement and no emotion is spent) when you involve a living being, which you fall in love with very quickly, it can result in utter devastation, and a huge financial and emotional cost. I should know, its happened to me twice, once when I was seeking my first pedigree and fell into the clutches of a BYB and once when I really should have known better ....

So I've started this thread because I'd like breeders and people who have bought pedigree cats to discuss the best way to find a reputable breeder, things to keep you eyes peeled for, and what specific questions you should ask.

The first thing that becomes obvious with a lot of people is they don't do enough research. However where do you start? If you are totally outside of 'The Cat Fancy' it can be impossible to know where to begin.
Breeders and those-in-the-know will tell you to approach the breed clubs or the registry. But when I started looking I'd never even heard of the GCCF, even though I'd read a number of books about cats. At the time I didn't have access to the internet, so I did what most people do, I looked in a paper and went to a breeder who was advertising in there. This was a mistake (see above).

In the UK there are four registries:
GCCF (Governing Council of the Cat Fancy) http://www.gccfcats.org/
TICA (The International Cat Association) http://www.tica-ew.org/
FIFE (Fédération Internationale Féline) http://www.felisbritannica.com/
CFA (Cat Fancy Association) http://cfaeurope.org/en

The GCCF is the only one based solely in the UK and is the most commonly used by UK breeders, the others are international registries, with TICA being the most commonly used of the three behind GCCF in the UK.
(NB Breeders: Please could you comment and put links to registries within your own countries please)

These registries will have links to help you find a breeder, a club for the breed you are interested in and have guidelines to help you select a breeder and chose a kitten.

Make sure you understand which health tests your chosen breed should have and ask your breeder for details of their cats status. Make sure you see proof, no reputable breeder will be offended if asked to show clearance certificates. In the UK Langfords are the most commonly used genetic testing service, this link shows you the breeds they have genetic tests for, just click on the breeds name and the tests available are listed.
http://www.langfordvets.co.uk/diagn...eneral-info-breeders/genetic-diseases-and-cat
Some UK breeders will use other Labs, the other most often used is UC Davis, in the USA. https://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/cat/

Other tests such as heart scans to check for HCM are done in a number of breeds. HCM is a complex disease, and the DNA test will not guarantee the cat is free from HCM, so beware of a breeder who claims it does. Note that heart scans must be performed by a specialist cardiologist not the local practice vet.

Make sure you understand what paperwork you should receive when you buy your kitten. As a minimum you should get a pedigree sheet (the family tree), and the vaccination card showing what vaccines were given and when. You should also receive the registration document. This is printed by the registration body and lists the kittens pedigree name, its parents, its date of birth and its registration number. While some breeders retain these until proof of neutering most will give these to you on collection of the kitten. This link will show you what the paperwork should look like https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/pedigree-papers.454267/

Lots of breeders also get their kittens microchipped so you should receive the paperwork for that too. Most breeders will give you a pack with details of worming, fleaing and feeding. It may be a little booklet or just a sheet of paper but it is important. Show it to your vet so they can put a note of the dates and products used on your kittens record. The kitten may or may not be neutered prior to you collecting him/her depending on the breeders practice.

Things to watch for when viewing kittens:
Dirty bottoms/eyes/noses/ears
Nervous kittens who don't relax and start to play after a few minutes of your arrival.
Nervous adult cats.
Dirty litter trays / feeding areas.
Excessively bad smells when a kitten/cat uses the litter tray.
Kittens/adults that don't want to be handled.
Breeders who are reluctant to show off their cats.
Kittens that are brought into the room from elsewhere (that you don't get to see)
Breeders that are keen to get a purchase that day.
Breeders who claim they health test but can't or won't show you the paperwork.
Breeders who avoid answering the question.
 
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#193 ·
A very helpful list @Tigermoon thank you for posting

I am now at the very end of the process and am over the moon with my breeder, but the thing I found most difficult about finding a breeder was verifying anything they said, this was especially difficult as I am not part of the "local cat community." There is very little to stop a BYB saying they are tested, registered etc so I was keen to look into it more beyond simply being told everything was in order. I did eventually verify everything and in time got rave reviews, but it certainly took a fair bit of digging - im not sure that's something all buyers do. One thing that made me feel comfortable early on was that money was never an issue, she told me the price during the first phone call and money was never mentioned again until I emailed to double check the figure a few weeks ago - she wasn't even interested in a deposit, if she is just in it for a quick buck? she isn't very good at it lol

Another thing that I loved seeing but had never previously considered? The Breeder had cats from her line that were very clearly not used for breeding due to age/health (injury) etc, they were just loved pets - this is one thing I will definitely look for in the future as I think a breeder having cats that have nothing to do with breeding is a hugely positive sign

My kittens mum is a bit skittish around strangers and the kitten itself just pretty much just sat in our hands purring for the entire visit (around 8 weeks) so not a lot of playing etc but after a little while her sister spent the next hour exploring every corner of the room. I think ours (who we are already madly in love with - we slightly worry it borders on obsession :p ) was just a bit shell shocked by being picked up and cuddled by giant strangers. I know this may fall under a couple of your flags (come to think of it the kittens were brought in from another room - she had 2 litters and rather a lot of kittens) but the stud, and other pets in the household were all super friendly and I absolutely believe the breeder when she says that the mum is just a lap cat who doesn't like strange humans much at first - I got the impression she was very much a favourite though.

I hope this thread helps other future cat parents find a great breeder :) I found the process extremely stressful
 
#3 ·
If you are after a popular breed, be extra wary. Breed such as British Shorthair, Maine Coon, Persian, Bengal (not an exhaustive list) for example. These are the breeds that backyard breeders are likely to breed as they know there is a huge market out there for people who want these breeds and they also know that a large proportion of these potential buyers are after pets (as opposed to show cats), often first time buyers, and not always bothered, or educated about, what paperwork a breeder should provide, or what is the appropriate age for a kitten to go to his new home.

I'd advise anyone interested in a pedigree to go to a cat show, preferably a large cat show. That way you get to say multiple examples of the breed you're interested in and also get to chat to breeders.

Look at breed clubs. Most have kitten lists. Doesn't guarantee everything will be fine but it's a good starting point.

Don't pay a deposit to reserve a kitten until you have visited and viewed. You should see mum and kittens, and dad if the breeder owns the sire. Trust your gut instinct and if you're uncomfortable with anything, walk away.
 
#8 ·
Breed such as British Shorthair, Maine Coon, Persian, Bengal (not an exhaustive list) for example
There are a huge number of ersatz 'ragdolls' around, but there are BYBs for any breed you care to mention.

Queen can have no more then 3 litters in 2 years - it is important for her wellbeing.
Some queens have no problem at all with 3 litters in 2 years, and there certainly isn't a GCCF rule about it.
 
#5 ·
Thank you Lynn as you say. Some people may well have already bought a kitten before coming on here. This is what happened with me and my Bailey. But at the time I didn't know about this lovely forum. It was only because I was pouring my heart out on a Ragdoll site that the lovely chinablue introduced me to this forum after Bailey passed away. If it wasn't for her sending me lots of lovely photos of the litter of Ragdolls she had at the time I wouldn't of ever got a pedigree cat again. I also have to give great credit to catcoonz she was a great help when looking for my Maine Coon. Unfortunately poor Yogi got sick within a week of us getting him. But he is still here with us thank goodness.
Thank you @Tigermoon for this brilliant thread. It will help people not make the mistake I made with Bailey.

Viv xx
 
#7 ·
I seen a lot of adverts of 'full pedigree' kittens but not registered - for numbers of reasons. Whatever 'breeder' tells you - most common reason why they not register kittens is because they can't - mum or dad is non active, they are close related, or simply not registered. The other reason could be to many litters. Queen can have no more then 3 litters in 2 years - it is important for her wellbeing.
 
#14 · (Edited)
A very helpful list @Tigermoon thank you for posting

I am now at the very end of the process and am over the moon with my breeder, but the thing I found most difficult about finding a breeder was verifying anything they said, this was especially difficult as I am not part of the "local cat community." There is very little to stop a BYB saying they are tested, registered etc so I was keen to look into it more beyond simply being told everything was in order. I did eventually verify everything and in time got rave reviews, but it certainly took a fair bit of digging - im not sure that's something all buyers do. One thing that made me feel comfortable early on was that money was never an issue, she told me the price during the first phone call and money was never mentioned again until I emailed to double check the figure a few weeks ago - she wasn't even interested in a deposit, if she is just in it for a quick buck? she isn't very good at it lol

Another thing that I loved seeing but had never previously considered? The Breeder had cats from her line that were very clearly not used for breeding due to age/health (injury) etc, they were just loved pets - this is one thing I will definitely look for in the future as I think a breeder having cats that have nothing to do with breeding is a hugely positive sign

My kittens mum is a bit skittish around strangers and the kitten itself just pretty much just sat in our hands purring for the entire visit (around 8 weeks) so not a lot of playing etc but after a little while her sister spent the next hour exploring every corner of the room. I think ours (who we are already madly in love with - we slightly worry it borders on obsession :p ) was just a bit shell shocked by being picked up and cuddled by giant strangers. I know this may fall under a couple of your flags (come to think of it the kittens were brought in from another room - she had 2 litters and rather a lot of kittens) but the stud, and other pets in the household were all super friendly and I absolutely believe the breeder when she says that the mum is just a lap cat who doesn't like strange humans much at first - I got the impression she was very much a favourite though.

I hope this thread helps other future cat parents find a great breeder :) I found the process extremely stressful
 
#16 ·
Another thing that I loved seeing but had never previously considered? The Breeder had cats from her line that were very clearly not used for breeding due to age/health (injury) etc, they were just loved pets - this is one thing I will definitely look for in the future as I think a breeder having cats that have nothing to do with breeding is a hugely positive sign
Yes and no. I, like many other breeders will seek pet homes for my retirees as they are far happier in a home without calling queens, playful kittens and less feline crowding. Whereas some breeders do keep their retirees. I have noticed that the age of retirement can influence the way a breeder manages their feline family. For example I retire girls from breeding very young, at 3 or 4 years of age, whereas other breeders will retire at 8 or even 9 years of age. It wouldn't be practical for me to keep every retiree as I'd soon be well over 30 cats and personally I don't think that is good for health or well being, and I'm not sure how I'd give each cat individual time.

Having said that I do have two neutered cats here. One I bought as a pet, with no intention of breeding from her at all. I'd always fancied a Chinchilla Persian so eventually went and got one. The other is a retiree and I've kept her because I promised her breeder I would, even though to be honest I think she would be happier as an only cat.
 
#19 ·
I must say, it really annoys me when I see an advert for a kitten which states that 'they will not be registered because we are selling them as pets only'. They are trying to hoodwink people. These days backyard breeders are selling their kittens for up to £500! They can't be trusted - they won't have put the work in that justifies selling at those prices.

I agree with a previous poster who says that if the kittens are not registered then it's most likely because the parents are not on the active register.
 
#20 ·
<snip>
I agree with a previous poster who says that if the kittens are not registered then it's most likely because the parents are not on the active register.
Or one of both of the parents are not registered. More money to register is another scam, at the most it's £23 for a GCCF kitten. if it's the only kitten in the litter (or the only one registered) and the breeder doesn't have a prefix.
 
#21 ·
Hi, I am new to the forum and looking at getting my first pedigree cat, but firstly doing all the research I can before hand.

Or one of both of the parents are not registered. More money to register is another scam, at the most it's £23 for a GCCF kitten. if it's the only kitten in the litter (or the only one registered) and the breeder doesn't have a prefix.
For what reason would a breeder not have a prefix? Is this something temporary? What if they've been breeding for a number of years? How are cats/kittens registered? Would it be in the breeders name?

Sorry for all the questions
 
#22 ·
Hi, I am new to the forum and looking at getting my first pedigree cat, but firstly doing all the research I can before hand.

For what reason would a breeder not have a prefix? Is this something temporary? What if they've been breeding for a number of years? How are cats/kittens registered? Would it be in the breeders name?

Sorry for all the questions
A breeder doesn't have to have a prefix no matter how long they have been breeding. The GCCF use an administrative prefix which changes each year. Sometimes a breeder may choose to use the admin. prefix rather than there own - maybe if they are branching out into a different breed.
The prefix is registered to the breeder's name and kittens then registered to that prefix. Both the prefix and the breeders name will be on the registration certificate
 
#24 ·
Can I just run past all of you some things that are annoying me recently? I've been trying to get another cat now for a while. I have three lovely rag dolls.

A few months ago I was going to buy a kitten from the same breeder we got our lovely boy from. Unfortunately the kittens were ill and she decided she couldn't sell them because they hadn't grown. I had already paid a deposit so she offered me a kitten from the next litter. Now that these kittens have been born she wants £200 more than I was going to pay for the original kitten (nearly £800) She said it's because these kittens have show potential but since they are only a few days old I don't see how she could know this yet? They do have a different queen mother. I did point out that this is more money than I can afford and she offered to drop the price by £100 which is still more than I was going to pay. The other thing is that she is advertising these kittens already even though the last litter became ill because they were visited too early. I have also discovered that they are not tested for HCM either. It's a shame because I love the cat we got from her (although he did have a few health problems and also had only had one vaccination so I had to pick up the tab for that too although that's another story...)

The other thing that I have encountered is breeders wanting a deposit for a kitten I have not yet seen because they are not yet old enough to view. Unless I know the breeder I don't want to pay for a kitten I haven't met and with a mother I haven't seen. Why can't the breeders begin to take deposits when the kittens are old enough to view?

I have now found a breeder who I think ticks all the boxes and does things by the book. I.e., takes a deposit once the kitten has been viewed and doesnt let people see the kitten until first vaccination and health check is complete. There is also a sales agreement. Would you agree with me that the first two scenarios I described are less than desirable?
 
#27 ·
Now that these kittens have been born she wants £200 more than I was going to pay for the original kitten (nearly £800). The other thing is that she is advertising these kittens already even though the last litter became ill because they were visited too early. I have also discovered that they are not tested for HCM either. I am inclined to think that because she has not been able to sell the original litter she is simply adding on the costs to subsequent litters.
The other thing that I have encountered is breeders wanting a deposit for a kitten I have not yet seen because they are not yet old enough to view. Why can't the breeders begin to take deposits when the kittens are old enough to view?
Would you agree with me that the first two scenarios I described are less than desirable?
Yes those two scenarios would have me walking away and not looking back. This is why it is so important to do lots of research and speak to lots of breeders and the breed clubs so you can understand what is and isn't normal behaviour from breeders.
 
#25 ·
Kittens shouldn't be reserved ie no deposit paid until they have been viewed unless there are exceptional circumstances. Personally I do allow viewings before vaccinations but many breeders do ask potential buyers to wait. You are right not to want to buy a kitten from your initial breeder and as she couldn't sell you the original kitten you should get your deposit back. Offering you a kitten from a different litter is not unusual but to ask you to pay more for it is unfair.
 
#26 ·
Thanks Lyn. This is what I was thinking. I am inclined to think that because she has not been able to sell the original litter she is simply adding on the costs to subsequent litters. I also have to travel quite a way for this breeder. I thought that one of the reasons that you pay a lot of money for a pedigree is that all the relevant testing has been done and health checks etc.
 
#28 ·
I think that people (including me) need to realise that breeders who register their kittens are sometimes doing it for the money. I wrongly assumed that if someone is selling genuine pedigree kittens then they must be ok.

The scenario I mentioned is quite frustrating for me. I had bought a kitten from this breeder and he is registered with TICA. He is a beautiful cat and I liked the idea of having another kitten with the same parents so I paid a deposit on the agreement that the kitten was going to be £600 which is usual for a pet pedigree ragdoll. Then the kittens got sick and the breeder told me she was sorry but she wasn't happy to sell them because they hadn't grown. I said sure I understand. She then offered me a kitten from a new litter which was due in a month or so or she said I could have my deposit back. Stupidly (with hindsight) I said that's fine I'll wait. She sent me a picture of this cat (one of her new queens) when the kittens had been born. Then suddenly it seemed as though she wasn't sure whether she wanted me to have one of those kittens or one from the next litter which was another one of her new queens (either would have been fine but why couldn't she be clear?)

It seemed to me confusing that I didn't know what kitten I was being sold. I don't have a preference about colour - I love all ragdoll colours. She didn't say anything about me being able to visit them before collecting either, but I did notice that she is advertising them on pets 4 homes. Then, as I said before she suddenly told me she is now selling all her kittens from the new queens for £800 because they apparently have show potential. Even I know that at 1-3 weeks old you can't know if a particular kitten in litter has show or breeding potential and I would think some would and some wouldn't. I asked her if they had been tested for HCM and she didn't reply.

I feel quite hurt by the way I've been treated because I was a customer of hers before. Needless to say it seems that I'm going to have to write off that £100. I should have just said I wanted it back in the beginning.

I feel that I don't trust this breeder now/ so I've found a breeder I do trust who has a solid reputation within the ragdoll community.

Sorry for that long ramble but many people do think that if a breeder is registering their kittens they must be ok. Sadly that doesn't seem to be the case.
 
#32 ·
Yes with my other cats I was presented with the paperwork about genetic testing without even asking.

It remains to be seen what illness the previous litter even had. She thought it was from visitors viewing too early. I think the love I have for my boy I got from there has clouded my judgment.
 
#35 ·
It is a shame. I probably won't report her but I do feel disappointed. As I said the cat I bought from her is beautiful and adorable nature. He's still a young cat so it remains to be seen how healthy he is in the long term. I hope he will be ok because if anything happened to him I would be absolutely devastated. I think that's partly why I've tried to find a more transparent breeder now. This will be our last cat anyway now and I think I've made the right choice. I don't choose kittens based on 'trendy' colours - the most important thing is temperament and how they will fit with my other cats.
 
G
#36 ·
My Burmese I found through the Burmese cat club. Her owners had only the Mother & Father & it was her first litter. She lived in a warehouse apartment & all the cats / kittens were in the same room. I picked the prettiest :) I did leave a deposit, but, was not asked to do so. Argentium my Maine Coon was purchased from the kitten lists on Maine coon cat club. I wanted a male black smoke. I waited months, then one came up in Devon near where my sis lives. She visited & was happy, so I paid the deposit. When I went to pick him up, she had neither the mother, nor the father. Both the other kittens which were brought in from outdoors had problems - one was polydactyl, one had a severely kinked tail. Within 2 days he was ill & at the vets. He was scanned at 5 months, he has HCM.
My son has 2 British shorthairs - Sodium & Helium. My next door neighbour drove to Birmingham & purchased 5 BSH kittens as she intended to start breeding them - all from the same litter. She brought them home the same day & one of them scratched her 2 year old son - big surprise there. She knocked on my door & asked me to find them homes! None of them have pedigree papers, she had been told they were 10 weeks old, I told her they were barely 5 & definitely not pedigree as they don't have papers. She saw a quick buck. Three went straight to Cats protection & were homed within a couple of days. Sodium & Helium had perpetual diahorrea which kept travelling from one to the other. It took 3 weeks to clear up & yes, you've guessed it, son fell in love with them.
They are blue colourpoints

Sodium


Helium

Sodium has Nystagmus - wobbly eyes, the vet says it is quite common in pointed cats with blue eyes. It doesn't seem to affect her at all
 
#38 ·
My Burmese I found through the Burmese cat club. Her owners had only the Mother & Father & it was her first litter. She lived in a warehouse apartment & all the cats / kittens were in the same room. I picked the prettiest :) I did leave a deposit, but, was not asked to do so. Argentium my Maine Coon was purchased from the kitten lists on Maine coon cat club. I wanted a male black smoke. I waited months, then one came up in Devon near where my sis lives. She visited & was happy, so I paid the deposit. When I went to pick him up, she had neither the mother, nor the father. Both the other kittens which were brought in from outdoors had problems - one was polydactyl, one had a severely kinked tail. Within 2 days he was ill & at the vets. He was scanned at 5 months, he has HCM.
My son has 2 British shorthairs - Sodium & Helium. My next door neighbour drove to Birmingham & purchased 5 BSH kittens as she intended to start breeding them - all from the same litter. She brought them home the same day & one of them scratched her 2 year old son - big surprise there. She knocked on my door & asked me to find them homes! None of them have pedigree papers, she had been told they were 10 weeks old, I told her they were barely 5 & definitely not pedigree as they don't have papers. She saw a quick buck. Three went straight to Cats protection & were homed within a couple of days. Sodium & Helium had perpetual diahorrea which kept travelling from one to the other. It took 3 weeks to clear up & yes, you've guessed it, son fell in love with them.
They are blue colourpoints

Sodium


Helium

Sodium has Nystagmus - wobbly eyes, the vet says it is quite common in pointed cats with blue eyes. It doesn't seem to affect her at all
What adorable cats.

Wrt a deposit then yes it makes sense that if someone is a sought after breeder they won't be worried about selling a kitten. The breeder I got one of our girls from is very good and doesn't insist on a deposit. She told me she was only going to let her active girl have one litter because she is not always based in the uk. It turns out that she has obviously changed her mind - if I'd known this I would have gone back to her! She also shows a lot of interests in her kittens and we keep in regular contact re: Ruby.
 
#39 ·
I've just noticed that the original breeder has now dropped the price she is asking for the kittens by £100 (presumably because she's had no interest) So having said that she was going to drop the price by £100 'just for me', I assume she would now be expecting me to actually pay the same as everyone else even though the original kitten was going to be £600 and I couldn't have the one we chose because they were all poorly. I'm going to tell her I'm not going to buy this kitten and leave it at that.

By the way, another question I wanted to ask was that another breeder (some time ago) told me that the next litter her queen was having would be nearly £100 more for each kitten than the last even though they hadn't been born yet and even though they had the same parents. I was a bit puzzled about this. Is there ever a legitimate reason why someone would do this?
 
#40 ·
By the way, another question I wanted to ask was that another breeder (some time ago) told me that the next litter her queen was having would be nearly £100 more for each kitten than the last even though they hadn't been born yet and even though they had the same parents. I was a bit puzzled about this. Is there ever a legitimate reason why someone would do this?
I think all breeders assess their financial situation from time to time and it may be that her costs were not being covered by the previous price.
 
#42 ·
Thank you that does make sense. What if they suddenly drop the price? Does that happen often? I mean fairly quickly after they originally advertised at a set amount.

I think that obviously you expect vaccinations and relevant genetic testing to have been done because it's part of the costs isn't it.
 
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