I replied to the email that I received thinking you would get it, but it seems to go only go back to admin. It's a really long one I don't seem to be able to re route it. I will have to re do it. Will do as soon as I can.

Hello Chilliminx, sorry it taken me so long to get back to you but I have been at work. I am also very despondent at the moment. As you know the kangaroo did not work so I briefly put Mika back on theRoyal Canin waiting for the Hills Zd as that is the hydrolysed one that the gut cannot recognise as protein. He has been on that mixed with the Royal Canin to transition him for about 5 days and tonight he has had total liquid diahorrea. I just don't know what to do I have just started the Synbiotic probiotic 3 days now. But it was awful tonight. I feel so sad for him. He went back to the vet on Friday he said the only way to get a definitive diagnosis was biopsy but agreed it won't make him better. He said I would need to keep him on the Zd for at least a month to see if it works. He also said that raw may work. I am at the stage where it seems no processed diet will work. Or do I just keep him on the Zd and hope this awful liquid stops. At least on the Kangaroo and the Rc it was a thick mass rather than liquid. He has not lost any more weight but has not gained any either. I don't know which way to turn.

 

@Burmese Boy - sorry to hear things are so bad for poor Mika.

I advise you to keep the diet bland and simple for now. Try him with plain poached white fish and the cooking stock. Tesco sells bags of frozen white fish in their Value Range. White fish is very gentle on the bowel, allows it to rest.

I would feed Mika about 5 or 6 small meals of the fish a day (including one left overnight in an auto-feeder) so he doesn't have a lot to digest at one meal.

Do not give him anything else, no treats, no dry food, no probiotics. Also make sure he can't steal any food if you have other pets.

Once he is passing a formed stool, you can start transferring him slowly to cat food. I wouldn't use the Kangaroo though. Probably too rich for him. Instead try turkey, unless you know him to be allergic to turkey of course.

Has Mika had stool samples tested at the lab for parasites, infection or viruses? Were results all normal?

 

 

Hi thank you for replying so quickly. Mika had tests for parasites, pancreatitis, liver, kidneys. All came back ok. I don’t know what viruses and infections you are referring to. He was not tested for toxoplasmosis but the vet said unlikely and in any event that usually cleared on its own. He had allergy test and is allergic to pork, fish, venison, oats and sugar beet. Because of the ongoing problems I also think he is allergic to chicken, rice and turkey, because his diahorrea just goes on. The smell is awful again. If I give him fish won’t it just carry on? It’s not being helped by the fact that the steroids make him ravenous and he keep begging for food and I maybe am over feeding him. He has not had dried food for weeks. He was never given treats nor did he ever show any interest in human food.

 

@Burmese Boy - as Mika had tests for all those things and results were normal then it does suggest his diarrhoea is due to food sensitivities, as you say.

Were the allergy tests blood tests? If so I am afraid blood tests are not very reliable. The only truly reliable way to identify food allergies (or food intolerances or sensitivities as they are also referred to) is to conduct Food Trials.

These should be done ideally using a novel protein, which I understand is what the kangaroo was for. But in poor Mika's case he has not got along with the kangaroo and so you would need to find a different novel protein for him.

The problem is at present his gut is so inflamed he is experiencing bad reactions to everything he eats. Which is why either he needs a novel protein (to rest his bowel) if we can find one he can tolerate OK, or he needs a bland diet of white fish or chicken. White fish would IMO be a safer bet than chicken.

Unless he has eaten a lot of venison in his life (has he?) then I can't see how he can be allergic to venison. Cats (and humans) become allergic (or sensitive) to foods they have eaten a lot of over quite a long period of time. I have a lot of food allergies myself and can vouch for this being the case.

It is quite possible as you say, he could be allergic / sensitive to chicken and turkey, as those meats being cheap and plentiful at the wholesalers are used a lot in cat food. So Mika will likely have eaten them over a long period.

It is also possible he is allergic to fish, if he has been fed fish a lot in his life. Though white fish is not often used in cat food, more usually fish such as salmon, tuna, trout or shell fish. So he may possibly be OK on white fish....I am not sure whether you should try it now. Though as he is so bad with diarrhoea at present it may not actually make him any worse if it disagrees with him. Even so...

Pork is also a meat that not so often used in normal cat food, simply because most of the carcass is sold for consumption by humans. However it is possible Mika could have eaten pork in cat food at some stage, and therefore it would not be a suitable meat for a novel protein.

I would not give him any rice, oats or other cereals, as those can cause a problem with a sensitive bowel. Neither of my boys with IBD have those ingredients in their food.

Novel proteins for Mika would be horse, reindeer, goat, squirrel, ostrich, pigeon. You can buy reindeer and goat canned from Vet Concept in Germany, but there is no way of knowing if Mika would like either or they would agree with him without trying them. Meats such as squirrel, pigeon and ostrich can be bought from online suppliers of meat, to be cooked, but it won't be cheap I'm afraid.

Or if you would consider feeding him raw meat there are various suppliers of raw meat for pets (such as Kiezebrink who supply the UK zoos) who do sell novel protein meats for cats.

Kiezebrink sells quail, pigeon, wood pigeon, pheasant, and partridge. They also sell rodents such as guinea pigs and hamsters.

https://www.kiezebrink.co.uk/category/177-other-poultry

Maybe raw food is the way to go for Mika, if he would eat it.

Is Mika on any medicines such as Prokolin? or steroids?

 

Hi, Mika is on Prednicare 1mg a day. No he has not been offered Prokolin, l bought the Synbiotic after reading about it on here.

Yes, the allergy test was bloods and I know they are not reliable. You are right how can he be allergic to venison, I have never fed it to him. Nor has he ever been fed white fish he may have been offered it on the odd occasion in the past. I think they put pork by products in cat food. The problem with the pet food industry is that you don’t really know what’s in the food. So really that test was a complete waste of time.

For the first 12 months of his life he was fed Royal Canin kitten food pouches and possibly the biscuits to graze on. I can’t remember. He did not go out of the house for 12 months so I know his poo was normal then. After that he went out into a secure garden for around 4 years. He went to toilet in the garden They both went off of RC after 12 months so I switched to Iams pouches 2 each per day and RC biscuits to graze on.They were mixed flavours in gravy but identified as salmon, ocean fish, chicken and beef from memory. Plus the unknown by products. I continued with the Iams until about 2/3 years ago when they changed the recipe. That’s when the problems started with flatulence. Before that he didn’t have any - I don’t know about his poo as he went outside. But I didn’t have any concerns.

They started including vegetables and reduced the pouch size from 100 to 85 gms and put who knows what else in it but it became apparent over a period, can’t remember how long that it did not agree with him. So that’s when the search began Sainsburys ( good as it looks) was eaten for a while then either began to disagree or they went off it. Same with Fortescue, AVA, Wainwrights, James Wellbeloved and I can’t remember what else. They have always had biscuits to graze on, RC or James Wellbeloved. So he may have had this problem for a long time and it’s slowly crept up. He has never vomited. Both have always been good eaters, but l now see that one of the symptoms of IBD is eating a lot.

I have seen soft poo in the garden over time but assumed it was because of the food issue. I never in my wildest dreams thought he had this problem because if I had he would have been diagnosed a long time ago. He is a much loved and treasured cat.

The flatulence can get really bad- then not so bad. At some point Iams brought out Natural which did not include veg so they went back on it, then came off it as it started again and had something else and so it has continued. At some point this year they went back on lams because I was running out of food options. The flatulence got so bad I could not even have him on my lap. That’s when I took him to the vets. He weighed 3.8 kgs and was a solid muscular boy, he is a very small cat. He had the tests and Vet said to change his diet he did not suggest anything. That’s when he said about Biopsy but how invasive it was. He also had a steroid injection. I found RC Sensitive and ordered it. Four days after the injection and before he had eaten any RC he went missing.

It was a terrible time. I moved heaven and earth to try and find him and unfortunately there is another cat who lives a few roads away and looks very similar, but is a Siamese and I kept getting phone calls but it was never Mika. Eventually I had the phone call that was him. He was in a state, l think he must have been shut in somewhere, he was so thin, had fleas, his ears were crusty on the tips and his fur spiky and I also discovered a tick on him after 4 days. His weight had dropped to 2.9 kgs so he had lost not far short of 25%. He had a vet check after being home for 48 hours and was pronounced ok, obviously IBD aside.

Then after a couple more days he did a poo with blood in which I had never seen before so back to vets and another steroid injection. After being found he did 3 solid poos then the diahorrea started again. The vet said the solids were due to dehydration and the blood because we has no idea what he had managed to find to eat.

Since he has been back he has had Cheshire Cat, RC Sensitive and Kangaroo I transition by mixing over about a week that’s probably not long enough but I have done it so much for 14 days in the past and I am getting desperate now.

The steroids make him ravenous which does not help and I have been free feeding to try and get weight back on him. So I am between a rock and a hard place. This morning he had 1/4 tin of ZD approx 39 gms and a desertspoon of the RC, trying to cut back as you said. Then I discovered that he had got the cling film off of the Zd tin and eaten more!

He is subdued nowadays and does not want to go out for long. He maybe scared because heaven knows what he went through or the steroids maybe making him feel unwell, or his gut. But he was such an active little boy before He loved going out, then would come in yelling and wanting kisses. He was such a character. That’s all changed now and it’s like he has lost part of himself.

There is apparently a local shop that specialises in raw food but it’s a daunting prospect. I am worried about all the vitamins and minerals including taurine that they have to have. Also this raw food includes crushed bone.l don’t care about the cost.

Would you know how soon after starting a food the diahorrea should stop?

Maybe I should try poached white fish or just switch him completely to the ZD for a week or two and see if there is an improvement - getting him off the RC Sensitive as it contains rice and sugars, even though it is a vet diet and supposed to help with IBD.

Both the RC and the ZD have chicken as novel protein though the ZD only has chicken liver which is hydrolysed and maybe I have to give it a chance.

I just don’t know and I think it’s nowadays case of I can’t see the wood for the trees.

 

@Burmese Boy - thank you for explaining the background to Mika's current situation. It really helps me understand things better. Poor fellow is probably feeling miserable with this problem and I think that's why his normal lively character has disappeared for the moment.

How old is he btw?

I think we have to settle on a food that may just help him, and stick with that for a while. As he likes the ZD, I would try that. As you say, the protein in ZD is hydrolised and so he may cope with it. The protein in RC is not hydrolised and as chicken is a common food allergen in cats I think it's best he stops having it.

For a couple of days I wouldn't give him anything except ZD and water. If the ZD is going to help him you will start to see an effect in a few days - stools will start to firm up.

If he still has diarrhoea after 2 days then I would definitely give him Prokolin. It it has extra ingredients to the Synbiotic to soothe the gut and reduce movement of the bowel so as to control the diarrhoea. When diarrhoea is as bad as Mika's it is important to use something like this to make the bowel less active. Otherwise the bowel seems to get stuck in an overactive state.

If I were you I would order the Prokolin right away so you have it ready in case you need it in 2 days time. You do not need a prescription.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Protexin-P.../B003Y3XLH4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1512993731&sr=8-1&keywords=prokolin+for+cats

As you say, steroids will give him an appetite, and our aim should be to get him off the steroids gradually as it will not be good for him to be on them longterm.

If he is getting very hungry, try and feed him little but often. Each can of ZD contains 156 grams - so for him to have e.g. one can and a quarter of another can would not be too much I think. And he could have this in as many small meals a day as you think appropriate at present, e.g. 6. 7, or 8.

Probably best to put the idea of feeding him raw meat on hold for now. But it may be something to consider if we can't find a wet food to help him. Raw food does contain ground up bone as you say (for calcium content and for roughage) but a cat's digestion can cope admirably with raw bone. Many makes of prepared raw food for cats already have the necessary minerals and vitamins added, though you can always add more taurine supplement if you wish. Taurine is water soluble and any excess is excreted from the body without harm being done.

Please keep us updated with how things go with Mika. (Please do PM me any time if you need to. OK )

Sending many good vibes to dear Mika.

 

Hi,
How do I PM you?

 

Hi there, i am new to this site and hope to get some advice.

My kitten has been displaying all of the following symptoms for under 2 months now.

The bloody dihorrea / blood in wee went away so I thought she was getting better after vet gave her worming medicine... clearly I was wrong :-(

Symptoms :

- bloody dihorrea (bright red)
- blood in urine (mucusey / gooey blood in urine)
- tiredness all the time / sleeps over 20 hours a day I think
- she's lethargic
- eating less (once a day!)
- drinking but less
- playing less
- dull coat

The vet said before the first time that it could be anything from guardia to colitis.

I'm scared it's something more serious...
Has this ever happened to anyone pet cat (s)?

What do you think it is ? Thank you for this thread I hope to get some answers please.

 

Hi KoolK, sorry that your kitten is unwell it's really worrying and we have all been through similar issues but this is a very useful site.
What Bcats said is right, my boy Mika had really bad diahorrea and weight loss. He had all the tests and they all came back negative. Had a dose of metronidazole which did nothing and then as IBD was suspected began on Prednicare 1 mg a day. I was also advised to put him on a mono diet of a protein that he had never eaten. Don't bother with the food allergies test as it's unreliable and led me down the wrong road until Chilliminx contacted me. That was the turning point I had suspected that food was the cause or contributor. You can read more if you look at my posts he has had a bit of a journey.
To cut a long story short get in contact with Chilliminx she is very knowledgeable. Having tried numerous foods from Happy Kitty and Zooplus all of which made no difference, and it's a long process transitioning from one to another, Mika's recovery started with Chilliminx advice. I put Mika on 3 weeks of steamed white fish as he is definitely allergic to chicken then went onto the Terra Faelis Rabbit and Broccoli and finally he began doing solid poo. He is now on a raw diet which I get from Purrform and he is thriving.
I wish you all the best and let me know how you get on.

 

Very worrying for you. My cat is coming up to four. She had blood and mucous in her faeces and diarrhoea. No other symptoms. I had a PCR test done and it showed positive for
Tritrichomonas
Giardia
C. Perfringens
Coronavirus
Her treatment began with Panacur paste for giardia then metrobactin. After still showing symptoms I got a second opinion and she was then put on ronidazole for two weeks. This is an antibiotic not licenced for cats but one of the only treatments for trichomonas. Five weeks on all good so far. I would certainly recommend a PCR test expense mine cost £150 and I had two done. They are generally very accurate and hopefully you will find out what you are dealing with. Also put her on a light diet of cooked chicken. Fish is good but in very small amounts. Sometimes a little tinned tuna in spring water will encourage them to eat. Again be careful with fish. I would suggest that you contact Chillminx. Not much she doesn't know about cats. She has given me a lot of valuable advice which has helped me cope with Poppy's infections.
Poppy is still positive for Coronavirus. Lots of cats carry this virus which is not treatable with antibiotics. I am using natural herbal remedies to build her immune system up hopefully it will go. Also put your cat onto a go probiotic. I use Synbiotic I get it on line. Good luck let me know how you get on.

 

Very worrying for you. My cat is coming up to four. She had blood and mucous in her faeces and diarrhoea. No other symptoms. I had a PCR test done and it showed positive for
Tritrichomonas
Giardia
C. Perfringens
Coronavirus
Her treatment began with Panacur paste for giardia then metrobactin. After still showing symptoms I got a second opinion and she was then put on ronidazole for two weeks. This is an antibiotic not licenced for cats but one of the only treatments for trichomonas. Five weeks on all good so far. I would certainly recommend a PCR test expense mine cost £150 and I had two done. They are generally very accurate and hopefully you will find out what you are dealing with. Also put her on a light diet of cooked chicken. Fish is good but in very small amounts. Sometimes a little tinned tuna in spring water will encourage them to eat. Again be careful with fish. I would suggest that you contact Chillminx. Not much she doesn't know about cats. She has given me a lot of valuable advice which has helped me cope with Poppy's infections.
Poppy is still positive for Coronavirus. Lots of cats carry this virus which is not treatable with antibiotics. I am using natural herbal remedies to build her immune system up hopefully it will go. Also put your cat onto a go probiotic. I use Synbiotic I get it on line. Good luck let me know how you get on.

Thank you
I am planning on taking her to my nearest PDSA hospital when I can as I am eligible for their reduced cost scheme.
What treatments did you do? What do you think i should do? Take her to a vet and then...?
What did you you?

Thank you

 

I am not eligible for the PDSA. I went straight to my vet. Not sure if PDSA do PCR test which is a faeces test. You have to take the faeces over three consecutive days. There are other tests that are cheaper but not very reliable. I think in your position I would try PDSA. The treatment was not expensive just the tests. For these infections vets usually give Panacur paste and the antibiotic Metrobactin. That will not treat Tritrichomonas if she has that. You said she is a kitten. How old? Has the vet given her anything for diarrhea. They usually prescribe Prokolin for that. Get another opinion ASAP. If she has diarrhea she will dehydrate.

 

She is 8 months old
The nurse just said to put her onto a bland diet
By the time the vets appointment came that particular bout of dihorrea had gone.
But it's come back now again
I will give her the chicken bland diet again.

 

https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-018-1528-7
Putting this here in case it's of interest, @chillminx

 

https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-018-1528-7
Putting this here in case it's of interest, @chillminx

What an eye opener. Most of us know this is going on but not to the extent of the results in the article. Thanks for posting.

 

That is really interesting @Paddypaws. Thanks for sharing.

I've been lurking in this thread for a while and have had great advice from users elsewhere on the forum (from @chillminx especially) but I have some ongoing questions and thoughts that seemed to fit best in this thread.

Background:
We adopted Kubo just under a year ago. He's a British blue shorthair who is now approx 12 years old. After a lot of trouble with his diet and a good 6-8 months of on/off diarrhoea and vomiting we've now got him mostly settled. He had lots of tests (blood etc) and eventually the vet diagnosed IBD and after lots of research and months of miserable trial & error he's now eating Miamor Ragout Royale in the salmon and turkey flavours, and occasionally plain white fish if he's having a bit of a flare up. The diarrhoea has stopped but he still regularly has soft or sloppy poo. In an average week he usually has one or two days of perfect poo, two or three days where it's mainly solid but with a "dribble" on top, and at least one day where it's 50/50 (usually a solid stool with a dollop of wet stuff on top). This has been the standard since just after Christmas. The vet advised us to just stick with this new routine because it was a drastic improvement on the awful yellow diarrhoea and nightly vomiting. He was very underweight when we got him, but has since put on nearly 2kg, so we know we're doing something right! But clearly this hasn't solved the problem entirely. As well as soft poo he also regurgitates food every so often, maybe once a month. This is always straight after eating and is not actual vomit like it was when he was really bad - it's just the undigested chunks from a few moments earlier coming back up. He eats really fast though so it could just be that.

My question is, how much more improvement can/should I hope to see? Is this just his "normal", or should we keep trying for 10/10 poops across the board? I'm reluctant to change his diet because all attempts to do so have triggered the terrible diarrhoea, and the vet advised just leaving his bowel to settle for a few months. But it has now been 6 months and I'm wondering if it's worth trying again. I've also read that IBD can become cancer if left untreated so I want to be sure I'm doing my best for him long term. I've also read that probiotics can help but I'm wary of these too...I gave him some prebiotic paste earlier this year and it triggered the diarrhoea. I'm not really sure what the difference between pro and prebiotic...or where to start? Some of the products I've looked at seem to have both!

My second question is, what can I give him as a treat food?! He can't tolerate any of the usual commercial treats we tried back when we first got him, and since the last bout of awful diarrhoea just before Christmas we've been too nervous to try anything new. I would love to be able to treat him now and then though! His diet is very dull (although he never has any trouble wolfing it down!)

Thanks for your advice as always!

 

I have been through a similar problem with my almost four year old girl. I know exactly what you are going through. Very stressful. Poppy was adopted by me in July 2016. Problems began within a couple of weeks. Massive poohs with blood. Her bowel movements were very irregular she would go around 36 to 48 hrs sometimes longer. The vet diognosed colitis. With advice from Chillminx I changed her diet which had very good results by giving her Catz Purrr Kangaroo. This I thought solved the problem but unfortunately a visit to a cattery resulted in diarrhea plus blood. I had a PCR test done (has your suggested this) the result was frightening. Five infections.
Giardia
Tritrichomonas
Coronavirus and C. Perfringens. I was horrified. Vet put her on to Panacur paste for five days then a follow up dose. Did not work. Then antibiotic Metrobactin for 21days. This also failed. I like you did a lot of research and had valuable advice from forums and my Australian Mist society face book group. I was continually advised by all to ask my vet to put her onto Ronidazole which is the only treatment to help Tritrichomonas. My vet said no because it can be neurotoxic to cats. Has to be monitored. I eventually took the plunge and found a vet who had experience in giving this treatment. This vet would only prescribe if cat positive Tritrichomonas which poppy was. Its now 11 weeks since poppy had any signs. The treatment caused no side effects. From what you have posted it sounds so similar to Poppy. If you have not had a PCR test done I advise you to do so. You have to take three pooh samples over three consecutive days then vet sends it off to a laboratory. There are other tests that are cheaper but not so accurate. I had two done for Poppy they cost around £140 but well worth it. I do hope that your little cat improves. Re pre biotics and Probiotics. Pro biotics feed on Prebiotic. I give Poppy Synbiotic you can get this on line. Another product I gave her was VBS Clay. This was recommended by a homeopathic vet. It will help control her diarrhoea and protect her digestive system . I also feed her on Specific Digestive Support wet. I sprinkle a small amount of Royal Canin Sensitivity control over the top. I don't like kibble but will continue until I am absolutely sure she is ok. I don't think Poppy has an allergy to certain meat but I always look for a single protein if I can so I will gradually get her back onto single protein of good quality. Please feel free to contact me if you need to.

 

Thanks so much for your reply @bcats! That is very scary to hear! I hope Poppy is doing much better now?

Kubo has been in and out of the vet so many times in the last year (once a week for the 2 months leading up to Christmas) and somehow none of the four different vets I've seen have mentioned PCR tests! I've just Googled the infections you mention and none of them especially stand out as matching his symptoms exactly but I will definitely be looking out for any signs of them and will ask the vet about it at our next appointment. Kubo has actually had two courses of metronidazole/metrobactin as an anti-inflammatory and it's the only thing that stopped the diarrhoea - the effect was almost immediate which makes me think it's more likely down to inflammation that infection but I'm happy to be corrected on that (I'm definitely no expert!)

He's not actually had a diarrhoea flare up since Christmas (I tried to switch to Catz kangaroo and it didn't agree!) - it just alternates between perfect poo and soft/sloppy poo from day to day. I don't know if that's typical of IBD though, or if that suggests an infection?

Did your girl seem unwell apart from the diarrhoea? Kubo seems totally fine in himself at the moment - and so much better than last summer when he was vomiting every night and was listless and sad for a good few weeks, poor boy.

After doing some research I've ordered some Bioglan online to try for now...I'll see how it goes and talk to the vet about PCR tests.

Thanks again for your advice!

 

Very surprised that your vet hasn't suggested a PCR test. Metrobactin / Metronidozle is an antibiotic. It did help the Giardia and C. Perfringens but not Tritrichomonas. Sometimes metrobactin has to be given again for Giardia. There are many infections that cats are susceptible to. What you discribe is much like Tritrichomonas which comes and goes. Cats with this infection often show no signs of illness unless the diarrhea is severe and they lose weight or become dehydrated. Poppy's pooh started normal and ended up with a cowpat like splodge at the end. This is the second cat I have had with Tritrichomonas so I do know the symptoms. You think it has gone then it starts again after a few weeks. There is a lot of info on line about it. Ronidazole is not licensed in the uk for cats. All I can say is that so far poppy has improved a 100% since the treatment. I have more pills should she show any more symptoms. The vet then will advise me what to do next. A full PCR test will show any infections or viruses that your cat may have

 

@TwoStrings have you tried freeze dried treats such as Thrive or Cosma snackies? Single protein with no additives.
Re the clay mentioned I buy from eBay for my girl probe to sloppy poo and many people do find the Bioglan helpful.

 

View attachment 359304 @TwoStrings have you tried freeze dried treats such as Thrive or Cosma snackies? Single protein with no additives.
Re the clay mentioned I buy from eBay for my girl probe to sloppy poo and many people do find the Bioglan helpful.

Re the freeze dried treats. I give those to Poppy.

 

Thanks @bcats! Yes, I'm surprised they haven't suggested it too. I'll definitely ask them about it and see if we can get him tested.

Metrobactin is also used as an anti-inflammatory, which is what it was prescribed for in Kubo's case - to calm the inflamed bowel, which worked like a charm (I've got an emergency stash in the cupboard just in case he needs it again!)

Thanks so much for the treat suggestions @Paddypaws! I haven't tried those, so I'll give them a go. Fingers crossed!

 

@Paddypaws - many thanks for posting the link to the study on novel protein diets (NPD) and hydrolised protein diets (HPD) for cats and dogs. A very interesting read indeed!

I was quite disappointed though to see only the result of one wet NPD for cats being tested, (the rest were all dog foods). The result found for the wet cat food tested was that chicken liver and fish oil had been included in an NPD wet food which had been labelled as just chicken.

In a couple of the HPD wet foods for cats there was found to be soya that was undeclared. But I have never trusted HPD foods to contain what they claim to contain, and I would not use them for any cat I suspect to have food allergies.

From my POV, when using a novel protein diet (NPD) for an elimination diet for a cat, I observe the following rules:

1/ no dry food at all - not even those which claim to be' mono protein' (as one of Macs does) as I can't rely on only a novel protein being in the recipe !

2/ no wet foods that state "meat byproducts" are included - because I fear that could conceal any kind of meat.

3/ no wet foods that contain added fish oil (as fish is not a novel protein).

To meet these criteria I recommend the Catz Finefood Purrr range of novel protein foods, or the Vet Concept foods. I do believe the manufacturers to be, (at least to the best of my knowledge,) transparent about their ingredients.

The Purrrr range does not list 'meat byproducts' as being an ingredient. The only ingredient listed that's not related to the specified animal meat used in the recipe is the added oil, usually borage oil, or rapeseed, which are not traditionally used in cat foods, and are therefore 'new' to the cat.

Vet Concept's novel protein diets do list in their ingredients 'animal by products' but state these are the byproducts of the animal whose meat is used in the recipe. e.g. "Meat and animal byproducts (kangaroo)". "Meat and animal byproducts (reindeer)" etc .

https://www.vet-concept.com/für-die-katze/nassnahrung/katzenmenü-känguru

Vet Concept (unlike the Purrr range) includes a small percentage of vegetables in their recipes (but not soya or pea protein which are used in some ordinary cat food diets)

Fortunately I did not have a problem with either of the above makes when I used them for elimination diets with 3 of my cats. They all however preferred the taste of the Purrrr range instead of the Vet Concept range, so I stuck with Purrr.

If there had been a continued problem with food allergies on the wet food, my next step would have been to buy the raw meat (e.g. kangaroo) and either cook it myself, or serve it raw to them. Using it over an 8 week period for an elimination diet, I would have added taurine and calcium supplements at least.

 

@TwoStrings - just to mention, that Miamor Ragout Royale wet foods do contain 'meat byproducts' and therefore it is possible that the Salmon and the Turkey flavours contain other meats e.g. chicken. The makers claim their foods are 'beef free' in fact, and do not state their foods are single protein, so really they could contain any meats (except - probably - beef).

I appreciate it is difficult when you've been through so much effort trying to find foods that agree with Kubo, to then start considering further changes to his diet. However, I would myself with my cats want to aim for firm poos "most of the time" if possible, with perhaps only an occasional soft poo.

As far as prebiotics go, my two boys with IBD do not get on with it. One got flatulence when I added it, and the other got diarrhoea.

I do add a very small amount of probiotic to their food every couple of days. If I add more than a very small amount they get diarrhoea. Sometimes I stop adding it for a week, in case I am overdoing it.

Treats - as already mentioned by someone else - I give Thrive or Cosma dried protein treats. I get through quite large amounts of these each month and I wish they weren't so expensive!

 

Hi all
I honestly do think that snowy has IBD/IBS.. difference?

Basically she has flare ups every so often.. Maybe once a week every month mostly less... where she gets a few days of runny dihorea with blood and sometimes even vomited up her food again

I have been to the vet who gave her metrobactin I think it's called and probiotics. The antibiotic above did help and it went away alongside the use of the probiotic and she was much better but now it's started again!

What causes IBS/IBD?
is it my fault..? Because I kept changing her food when she was younger?? She's 10 months old now.

She's currently on Felix kitten which I know isn't the best... I was thinking of slowly moving her over to animonda VF neutered ...? Does anyone else feed there IBD/IBS cat this ? Or feed their cat in general?

I have tried so many things and I don't know why but every single cat that comes into my care always has some sort if issue... I know this happens and I need to remain calm but I'm a big worrier!

She sometimes can't control the dihorra and begins pooping outside of the litter box EVERYWHERE so I now know that when this happens to keep her in her own one room

What causes her to flare up I don't know... especially this time... nothing has changed in terms of her environment or food and she seems normal as before

What can I do to help her?
Any advice please?

Thanks

 

You

Hi all
I honestly do think that snowy has IBD/IBS.. difference?

Basically she has flare ups every so often.. Maybe once a week every month mostly less... where she gets a few days of runny dihorea with blood and sometimes even vomited up her food again

I have been to the vet who gave her metrobactin I think it's called and probiotics. The antibiotic above did help and it went away alongside the use of the probiotic and she was much better but now it's started again!

What causes IBS/IBD?
is it my fault..? Because I kept changing her food when she was younger?? She's 10 months old now.

She's currently on Felix kitten which I know isn't the best... I was thinking of slowly moving her over to animonda VF neutered ...? Does anyone else feed there IBD/IBS cat this ? Or feed their cat in general?

I have tried so many things and I don't know why but every single cat that comes into my care always has some sort if issue... I know this happens and I need to remain calm but I'm a big worrier!

She sometimes can't control the dihorra and begins pooping outside of the litter box EVERYWHERE so I now know that when this happens to keep her in her own one room

What causes her to flare up I don't know... especially this time... nothing has changed in terms of her environment or food and she seems normal as before

What can I do to help her?
Any advice please?

Thanks

What a worry for you. I have been through exactly the same problem with Poppy. Symptoms very similar but diarrhea not so violent with blood. Has your vet suggested a PCR test ?. This is a test where you send in specimens of the poo to a laboratory. Sounds to me that your cat has an infection. Poppy had a few infections .Giardia, Tritricomonis being two of them. Symptoms are very similar. Poppy was given Metrobactin also Panicure paste which is a wormer but treats giardia. Sometimes it needs two or more treatment. It was the Tritriomonis that we had problems with
Metrobactin does not cure this. Only one treatment for this which is Ronedizole. This is not licenced for cats in UK. Your vet has to have it made up in a laboratory the dose is made up for your cats weight. Many vets do no like prescribing this drug as it has been reported to be neurotoxic. I did have misgivings about giving it to poppy but after a lot of advice from this forum and a group I belong to I decided to give it a go. I consulted a vet who was experienced in treating Tritricomonis and we started the treatment. 21 days of the pills. I watched poppy very carefully for any side effects , there were none. Side effects are usually caused by too higher dose. If there are any side effects the dose has to be stopped immediately. It's now almost four months since Poppys last diarrhea. She does have the very occasional what I call " A bit wet stuff ". I give her VBS clay for that. It's possible in poppys case that the infections have caused damage to her gut so I am very careful what I feed her on. She has Specific digestive support. Fussy madam that's all she will eat. I'm sure you will get some advice from Chillminx on this forum. She has been so supportive very knowledgeable on diet. She will probably advise a single protein food to rule out allergy. The important thing is to get the PCR test done
Expensive around £140 pounds. At least you will then know what you are dealing with. The VBS clay will help the diarrhea and calm the gut. Please feel free to contact me .

 

Hi! I haven't been here in a while.

My Ari has IBD and I'm joining the discussion. She's been in treatment for a couple of years already. Prednisone 2.5mg twice weekly, taurine daily, Royal Canin Veterinary food Intestinal. She had a good 4 months with good poo this year but she's in a couple of months of flare-up now. I've become the crazy cat lady that has a powerpoint with poo photos and a poo classification of her daily poos (I've never seen my vet laugh so hard when I told him).

I'm dying to read the 175 pages and see what has worked for you!

 

Hi! I haven't been here in a while.

My Ari has IBD and I'm joining the discussion. She's been in treatment for a couple of years already. Prednisone 2.5mg twice weekly, taurine daily, Royal Canin Veterinary food Intestinal. She had a good 4 months with good poo this year but she's in a couple of months of flare-up now. I've become the crazy cat lady that has a powerpoint with poo photos and a poo classification of her daily poos (I've never seen my vet laugh so hard when I told him).

I'm dying to read the 175 pages and see what has worked for you!

Hi @TatiLie

Sorry to hear your Ari has IBD and is having a flare up. I have an IBD cat too. Sounds like Ari is on a low dose of steroids, that's something.

You made me laugh with your poo logs, as my Tessytwoshoes has a book where I log her daily output and give it marks out of 100! It's nice to know I'm not the only crazy cat lady out there

How old is your Ari? Any other medical conditions?

Best of luck anyway, Tri Tri.

 

Hello, just want to add my experience, my boy has IBD, and I have posted previously on this site - where I came for help. It took me a long, long, long time to sort Mika out buying up half of Zooplus various brand food (only to be distributed round my friends) to find food that did not pass straight through him.

What has worked for Mika is raw. He has been on this for a number of months now and has solid poo every day. He is thriving and his coat is like silk and shiny. He is no longer on any medication.

It was a leap of faith but my gut instinct always felt it would be right. Chilliminx helped me along the way with invaluable advice. Never feed dried, and a lot of commercial foods contain bad by- products. Cats are carnivores, they can’t process lots of what is in commercial food.

Raw is not for all cats and some won’t touch it, my other one won’t. But it’s worked for me and I get mine from Purrform.

 

My 7 year old cat has just been diagnosed with IBD and we have been struggling to get weight on him even though he is eating. We have been feeding him royal canin sensitive food, wet and dry. He doesn't have any diarrhoea, however he was sick yesterday morning. We are going to try the hydrolysed hypoallergenic dry food but I'm.pretty sure he won't be happy without having wet food of some sort. He was on steroids but we stopped giving them to him when he had his biopsy which confirmed IBD and he hasn't been back on them since as he's still recovering. He's got a vets appt today and we are hoping his wound has healed enough so he is OK to have his collar off so he can go outside as I think that's what's frustrating him the most at the moment . Any advice on food etc would be great!

 

Hi @LauraC86 and welcome

I am sorry to hear about your cat having IBD. I have two 9 yr old cats with IBD (brothers) and fortunately I am able to manage their condition with diet. Neither of them has steroids. One has antacids for short periods if he needs them (this is famotidine).

When my cats first became ill with frequent vomiting (soon after I adopted them when they were 16 mths old) I put them both on exclusion diets to identify which meat proteins they are allergic to (or intolerant of). From this I learnt they are intolerant of beef, fish (except white fish), lamb, venison and rabbit. They also do better on a diet that is low in offal and lowish in fat (it is not unusual in IBD for cats to cope better with lower fat levels in their food).

I feed my cats no dry food because any make of kibble I tried made their symptoms worse. I only ever gave them a little dry food as treats but once I stopped that altogether it helped. Instead I give them the Thrive treats which are freeze dried pure protein.

My cats have a diet of turkey, chicken or duck cat food, along with home cooked low-fat minced pork twice a week, plus fried lambs kidney twice a week and poached white fish once a week. The main part of their diet is Animonda Vom Feinsten for neutered cats, Turkey pure. It is easy for them to digest, and is low in offal and lowish in fats.

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/canned_cat_food_pouches/animonda/trays/523945

Leonardo Pure Poultry canned food :

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/canned_cat_food_pouches/leonardo/wet_food/478464

Concept for Life for sterilised cats :

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats...shop/cats/canned_cat_food_pouches/concept_for_life/specialised_nutrition/618401

and Miamor Mild Meals Pure Poultry with Ham :

https://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/canned_cat_food_pouches/miamor/miamor_trays/42061

Note - some people with IBD cats find the cats do better on a balanced raw diet. I did spend a month trying my cats with raw, (lamb, pork, rabbit, turkey) which they loved, but any of the raw meats made their vomiting much worse, so I had to stop. But I think my cats' reaction may be unusual. There are various online groups which offer support for raw feeding to IBD cats. (See Facebook)

I can't say whether any of the cat foods I've listed above would suit your cat, because every cat with IBD will have their own individual needs. I am only giving you an idea of the kind of foods to look for if you decide to feed a wet food diet (as opposed to a raw diet) .

e.g.
wet food only, or home cooked (or balanced raw) no dry food.
single protein where possible,
containing meat protein, no vegetable protein,
grain free
no added sugars.

 

Hi. I’m maybe one of the few people here who hopes their cat does have IBD. Otherwise it’s even more serious. Currently at a loss to do. He’s dying due to malnutrition....

My 10 year old male cat has been losing weight after a few months. He went from 4.3kg to what he is now 3.1kg. He’s just not eating turns his nose up at everything and hasn’t eaten in 5 days now. He’s not drinking much either. 6 days ago he started to get bad diarrhoea, just liquid with blood,which is when he stopped eating. He had a bout of diarrhoea a few months ago, which is when he started to lose weight after. (My other cat had some strange diarrhoea and sickness two weeks before this) He’s now very weak and lethargic. Vets this week have done ultrascan and full external lab blood count and urine test. All are good results. (Although slightly high red blood count which could be bone marrow problem but I also heard diarrhoea can cause this)
It’s most likely a gut problem either IBD or cancer or maybe even some sort of baterial disease or some strange virus. he’s an indoor cat but has been in contact with some feral cats a few months ago. None of them have fiv or feVL. I don’t know what to do. Thinking of getting the vet to put him on an iv for nutrients and then keeping him in for 2-3 days to try build his appetite back up. I feel the fact he has true anorexia is causing him to feel so ill and just sitting under bed all day hiding. Is it worth a go? I’m not sure what other options we have. He’s been sick a few times but not many times. It’s mainly diarrhoea. Vet said ultrascan yesterday showed he has fluid in his gut, but it’s not good as he hasn’t eaten. He’s so thin and weak.
The ultrasound scan showed his organs are all ok currently.

Can’t get a stool sample because it’s just liquid and vet said that’s no good.

He’s had steroid injections and vitamin B and also anti sickness and pain relief. None seem to be improving his condition and bringing his appetite back. He’s just laying under bed all day every day

I know a biopsy can often diagnose cancer but right now I think he’s too weak to go through that.

 

Hello @JJ-Jedi and welcome

I am sorry to hear your cat is so poorly. I can understand how worrying it must be for you.

When a cat stops eating it can sometimes be really difficult to get them eating again - I have been there with some of my cats (both past and present). It is as though they give up the will to live. The problem is that not eating for 5 days can result in a nasty illness called liver lipidosis, and this is a matter for urgent vet treatment. When did the vet last see him?

It is now very urgent for you to get your cat eating again, if you are to save him. As he has diarrhoea he should be on a diet of home cooked chicken drumsticks or poached white fish, both served with plenty of the cooking juices. Have you tried him with either of those?

For a sick cat who is not eating it is important to stop presenting them with their usual foods. They have started to associate their normal diet with feeling ill, i.e. they blame the food for how they feel.

Instead go now to your nearest pet store or supermarket and buy a selection of about 5 or 6 different wet cat foods. Then put a teaspoonful of each food, one by one, on a plate and set it near him. Do not feed him dry food, wet food only.

Things you can do to encourage him to eat one of the new foods:

1/grind up a couple of cat treats in a new pepper grinder and sprinkle the powder on top of his wet food.
or

2/ sprinkle a little powdered cat nip on top of his food

3/ buy some Thrive freeze dried cat treats in a strong flavour (such as white fish) and break the cubes into pieces and put on his food

4/ liquidise one of the new wet foods in a blender so he can lap it. (don't add water as wet food has a high percentage of water and will become liquid in the blender)

5/ if he won't accept any of the new foods, try him with a little canned tuna for humans - get the one in spring water.

If he is not drinking a lot to compensate for not eating I am very worried he will become dehydrated. He will also need his electrolytes replaced if he is not drinking much or eating anything. Dehydration will make him feel very ill and left untreated will kill him.

Has he had IV fluids at the vet in the past few days? Have a look at his gums - if they are pale and dry looking then he is dehydrated and you need to get him to the vet today. if the gums are moist and pink then he is not dehydrated.

Also you can lift the skin of his scruff between your thumb and forefinger and then let it go. It should spring back almost like elastic. if it stays in a 'tent' position then he is dehydrated.

I would also prepare yourself for force feeding your cat - in case he won't eat any of the new foods you buy for him today.

For force feeding you need to buy a can of Hills Recovery food from the vet. This is highly nutritious and the cat will not need much of it. You also need some food syringes (pharmacies sell them, or the vet may sell you one). The Hills can be used straight from the can, but once the food has been in the fridge it will harden a bit and you may need to warm a small portion in the microwave for 5 seconds to loosen it up a bit. Don't feed it to the cat until you are sure it has cooled down. (Store the Hills in the fridge a plastic food container with a lid or in a small ceramic or glass bowl with a saucer on top. Do not store it in the tin. )

Fill the syringe, then gently squeeze a little food into the corner of your cat's mouth, never into the front of his mouth. Only a small amount at a time and always wait for him to swallow before you give any more, otherwise there is a risk he could aspirate (inhale) the food and it will go into his lungs and cause pneumonia.

Here is a good video showing how it is done :

Please get a can of Hills Recovery food from the vet today and if your cat has refused all the new foods you offer him today then you need to start the force feeding by this evening. Note, that he may not be as docile as the cat in the video, and you will need to be careful not to cause him more stress in his current delicate state. He will need small amounts of food about 3 times a day. You can continue to offer the new foods between the syringe feeds and once he is eating independently stop the force feeding.

Good luck, please let us know how things go. Sending many healing thoughts for your cat's recovery.