Ive also so seen this. Brainless is very up on this subject and can give good advice, so more advice please and ALOT less lectures

I totally agree, positive advice is very welcome and people will always listen to it, but insinuating that people are irresponsible because they dont agree with you breeding ethics is not going to help anyone.

 

People wont listen if preached to so its all a big waste of time. Most of brainlesses view are correct just conveyed in the wrong way, no-one likes being spoke to like a child. Maybe a more laid back approach would get brainless and others point across better which must be what they want! and would be more benificial for dog welfare

 

I totally agree, positive advice is very welcome and people will always listen to it, but insinuating that people are irresponsible because they dont agree with you breeding ethics is not going to help anyone.

There are certain areas where surely there is no room for differing view points but simply right and wrong.

A medium large breed bitch having already had 3 litters by the time she is 3 years old for example, but maybe we should just let them all get on with it, good bad and indifferent, without a word of censure?

Breeding with no health tests?

Breeding from dogs with serious faults like bad mouths, monorchids etc?

Then nothing will ever change, people get taken in, and dogs suffer.

If best practise is not pointed out how do potential new owners know what to insist on, so that poor breeding dies out through attrition.

 

I can see where Brainless is coming from to be honest.....

In my opinion,I don't see the need to breed cross breeds unless bred for a purpose i.e working dog lurchers for example.

The rescues are struggling up & down the uk,dogs are dying and this is just my take on it why breed more,the rescues are all too often picking up the pieces from breeders breeding designer crosses,to maybe start a new breed,(this takes years)& irresponsible breeding.

I completely agree, however if you are not able to find a suitable rescue dog, rescues turn you down for various reasons and you can't have the breeds you want due to various reasons, what do you suggest a person does?

I choose my dog as I could afford him, he was healthy, had a good temperament, was suitable for our home and the perfect dog for our family. If it was not for the people who bred my dog, our family would be without this wonderful companion.

Of course to recognise a new breed takes years, however all pedigree breeds started somewhere.

I agree with you colliemerles, I don't think we are going to agree on this subject and each to there own. In my opinion whether a dog has papers, no papers, generations of past relatives that look like them or generations who don't look like them. They are all dogs, all loyal companions. The joy is in owning a dog, not owning a dog because it is a pedigree.

 

I completely agree, however if you are not able to find a suitable rescue dog, rescues turn you down for various reasons and you can't have the breeds you want due to various reasons, what do you suggest a person does?

I choose my dog as I could afford him, he was healthy, had a good temperament, was suitable for our home and the perfect dog for our family. If it was not for the people who bred my dog, our family would be without this wonderful companion.

Of course to recognise a new breed takes years, however all pedigree breeds started somewhere.

I agree with you colliemerles, I don't think we are going to agree on this subject and each to there own. In my opinion whether a dog has papers, no papers, generations of past relatives that look like them or generations who don't look like them. They are all dogs, all loyal companions. The joy is in owning a dog, not owning a dog because it is a pedigree.

But you could have gone on a good breeders waiting list for a Field Spaniel?

There is a serious overpopulation issue with dogs, so really breeding just because you can rather than for breed improvement or for dogs required for work is not considered responsible.

All these dogs in the rescue centres have been bred by someone, who should be accountable for them for their whole lives Very few have breeders who have died or are too ill to take responsibility.

Hopefully your pups breeders will always be there to help with the pups they bred, and am sure they had you sign a contract to that effect, but in my opinion and the majority of people in canine welfare, they are at best misguided and naive about the bigger picture in breeding this way.

For those who think I am exaggerating why not have a look at a rescue site in the US called Petfinders and look up and see how many of these small breed crosses there are in rescue Search results - pets in adoption centers near Hightstown, New Jersey.

Yes it isn't the UK, but the fad has come from there in only the last couple of years. Here are the details of the first Pom x Chi to coem up: Adopt Scooter3 - Pomeranian, Chihuahua Dog [Mix]

Yes loads of pedigrees too, but look at the quality (or lack of), , this Chihuahua for example (no good breeder produced him)Adopt Litto - Chihuahua Dog

In Australia they are already finding huge numbers of these designer crosses ending up in rescue as they haven't the promised characteristics or are unhealthy and of poor temperament.

 

how can an enclosure be the same as an enclosed garden,? all the rescue centres i went to would not allow the dog to be kept outside.
i have an run that dudley goes in when i go to work.
i went to lots of rescue centres they all said that they would not even come and do a home visit!!!
i have lots of expreience with rescue dogs and have lots of time and effort to put into them.
i ended up with shar pei after i has thouroughly researched them, and i will be breeding with them when april is old enough,
becasue i have had several vets comment on what a fantastic dog dudley is of the breed he has none of the problems that are asscoiated with this breed and ask me if i am going to breed with him.
i feel that puppys from my two would be healthy and hopefully problem free.
but with regards to cross breeds some of these are healthier that some of the pedigree dogs that are bred. sometimes this is regardless of health tests.
i thought this was a informative sight for discussion and help.
and surely we are all entitled to our opinion, and it is not for one person to decided who is rong or right ?

 

how can an enclosure be the same as an enclosed garden,? all the rescue centres i went to would not allow the dog to be kept outside.
i have an run that dudley goes in when i go to work.
i went to lots of rescue centres they all said that they would not even come and do a home visit!!!
i have lots of expreience with rescue dogs and have lots of time and effort to put into them.
i ended up with shar pei after i has thouroughly researched them, and i will be breeding with them when april is old enough,
becasue i have had several vets comment on what a fantastic dog dudley is of the breed he has none of the problems that are asscoiated with this breed and ask me if i am going to breed with him.
i feel that puppys from my two would be healthy and hopefully problem free.
but with regards to cross breeds some of these are healthier that some of the pedigree dogs that are bred. sometimes this is regardless of health tests.
i thought this was a informative sight for discussion and help.
and surely we are all entitled to our opinion, and it is not for one person to decided who is rong or right ?

well said !!!!!!!!!! i have both pure breed and cross bred,, and i personnally find my cross bred dogs have less problems than the pure bred,, but i wouldnt preach to everyone that they HAD to have a cross breed, it would be THERE CHOICE

 

There are certain areas where surely there is no room for differing view points but simply right and wrong.

A medium large breed bitch having already had 3 litters by the time she is 3 years old for example, but maybe we should just let them all get on with it, good bad and indifferent, without a word of censure?

Breeding with no health tests?

Breeding from dogs with serious faults like bad mouths, monorchids etc?

Then nothing will ever change, people get taken in, and dogs suffer.

If best practise is not pointed out how do potential new owners know what to insist on, so that poor breeding dies out through attrition.

Im not arguing as to weither your right or wrong im saying you have good knowledge but no idea of passing this information on with out trying to talk down to people

 

I am not willing to discuss this matter with you further - you are rude, igorant, obonxious and closed minded. I hope you realise that one day a dog doesn't have to have papers or be a pedigree to be loved.

Well said i totally agree a dog is a pet and if its loved thats all that matters

 

I am not willing to discuss this matter with you further - you are rude, igorant, obonxious and closed minded. I hope you realise that one day a dog doesn't have to have papers or be a pedigree to be loved.

(Accidentally deleted my post.)

 

agree there
this matter goes on and on
lets just face it, there will always be people who breed crosses and ped's some for the breed, some for the money,
some people dont take responsible for the pups and some that do.

so why have the same thing over and over again,
people come on here to ask questions and for help not arguments

 

yep i agree

 

agree there
this matter goes on and on
lets just face it, there will always be people who breed crosses and ped's some for the breed, some for the money,
some people dont take responsible for the pups and some that do.

so why have the same thing over and over again,
people come on here to ask questions and for help not arguments

i agree people come to ask questions not be preached too

 

agree there
this matter goes on and on
lets just face it, there will always be people who breed crosses and ped's some for the breed, some for the money,
some people dont take responsible for the pups and some that do.

so why have the same thing over and over again,
people come on here to ask questions and for help not arguments

well said Carol,, SO PLEASE THINK BEFORE REPLYING, we are not here to attack other members with our answers, we are ment to be trying to help,,,

 

Its nice 2 be nice

 

thank you
oh bug must of been on a good strain of thought lol lol

 

I completely agree, however if you are not able to find a suitable rescue dog, rescues turn you down for various reasons and you can't have the breeds you want due to various reasons, what do you suggest a person does?

What I suggest is and what I did was getting in touch with a Breed Club who know of reputable good Ethical Breeders who have litters or litters due.

Too many people buy dogs on a wim,easy come easy go attitude,it doesn't work out so rescue pick up the pieces.These dogs didn't ask to be bred,they are bred by selfish individuals,for fianiancial gain,pity they don't experience a hard time when the bitch is whelping and end up way out of pocket,maybe that's the only way they will learn!

 

I DID ALL THAT! Unfortunately like I have said I couldn't reach the locations, couldn't afford the ridiculous prices (for a decent Chihuahua you are looking at £1000 - £2000+) or breeders refused to let me purchase one of their puppies (which I can understand)! THE PEOPLE WHO BRED MY DOG DIDN'T MAKE THEIR MONEY BACK, LET ALONE MAKE ANY PROFIT!!!!!

 

I DID ALL THAT! Unfortunately like I have said I couldn't reach the locations, couldn't afford the ridiculous prices (for a decent Chihuahua you are looking at £1000 - £2000+) or breeders refused to let me purchase one of their puppies (which I can understand)! THE PEOPLE WHO BRED MY DOG DIDN'T MAKE THEIR MONEY BACK, LET ALONE MAKE ANY PROFIT!!!!!

I wasn't having a go,I simply answered your question.

I have another question,to start a new breed it takes yrs,even decades to get them recognised,so if your Breeder of your pup wants to start a new breed,what are they aiming for in looks,health,temperament etc,it takes litters of pups to get the all important "type" factor,so what happens to those which do not fit the bill,are they culled, rehomed for money,gone into rescue etc?
Did they keep a puppy,did they keep all details of the dogs used etc?

Also another question as you reckon your breeder is great,did they give you insurance and sell under a contract?

 

lots of working dogs are crossed have you ever seen a pure bred lurcher pmsl

 

I can see where Brainless is coming from to be honest.....

In my opinion,I don't see the need to breed cross breeds unless bred for a purpose i.e working dog lurchers for example.

The rescues are struggling up & down the uk,dogs are dying and this is just my take on it why breed more,the rescues are all too often picking up the pieces from breeders breeding designer crosses,to maybe start a new breed,(this takes years)& irresponsible breeding.

lots of working dogs are crossed have you ever seen a pure bred lurcher pmsl

Did you not understand the sentence is red then,they are bred for a purpose,for working,not just because!

 

hence some dogs that are crossed end up being a better breed ie the plummer terrier fab little dog NOT for shows but great little worker

 

sallyanne we have been here before EVERYONE is entitled to ther own opinion

 

hence some dogs that are crossed end up being a better breed ie the plummer terrier fab little dog NOT for shows but great little worker

Yes but they have a purpose don't they,again working dogs,I don't see the point in crossing a chi with a pomm,or what is hoped to be achieved by way of purpose they serve,not to say they are not loved any less,just don't see the point.

 

It does takes years and years to get the Kennel Club to even consider recognising a new breed - litters and litters to get a type set in etc etc.....
Lurchers are crossed but the KC dont recognise them - so thats a different kettle of fish all together.