Has she recently had a season?

If she's not eating could she be ill?

 

I`m going to give you a huge present. It`s absolutely wonderful and what you really really want but it`s too big to get in your door so it remains outside your place.
Other people come along and try to steal it.
Do you ..
a) smile happily as they wander off with your prize?
b) defend it.

Not rocket surgery is it?

If you had swapped for something, or distracted the dog then calmly removed it, the dog would not have been forced into this position.
I`m not sure what this has to do with your child unless she is in the habit of stealing bones from the dog....

 

She hasn't recently had a season and she's been eating fine.

I don't understand what you mean by it's too big to get in the door? She had free access to the joint for half an hour before my husband went to the kitchen, but hadn't touched it. I think you're right that he shouldn't have interfered with it, but his position is that if she's capable of attacking him then she might be capable of attacking our daughter (who of course doesn't touch her bones). He's just worried, that's all. And I have to defend her - or this is what it feels like...

 

Does your husband do much training or anything with her? Does he know to ask her to sit before taking her food or did he just walk straight up to it & take her by surprise? Also, did his tie dangle & go near the meat? In which case was she growling at him or the weird dangly thing that was threatening her food?

As long as your child understands not to steal food from the dog & you haven't seen any of this behaviour, I don't think you have anything to worry about. I would perhaps suggest that your husband takes time to calmly do some training with Cookie himself so that he reinforces his positive bond with her & both of them know how to react to each other.

Having just seen your update, has she been eating normally up to & since the incident? If not, I would get her checked over by the vet. The behaviour could be a sign of pain or something else amiss, especially because it is seemingly so out of character.

 

Thanks for replies.

No, my husband does nothing at all with her. I've told him that this might honestly be an issue. He's not been very well for the past few months and so doesn't even take her on walks, which he used to do once a day.

I'll keep an eye on whether she's not eating, but in this heat, I think everyone's a bit languid and low in appetite. I'm wondering whether to take her back to the kitchen and give the leg back to her now - my husband thinks that such a large piece of meat is 'provoking' her, and I think that's right insofar as it's triggering guarding behaviour. But equally, I tend to think we should leave her to get on with it and not interfere.

 

It sounds like resource guarding to me, but putting teeth on your husband like that with purpose is not good... To me that is well worth seeking out the advice of a credentialed professional.

I’d read through the sticky in this forum on resource guarding, get a copy of the book “Mine” by Jean Donaldson, and hopefully someone will be on soon with some trainer recommendations in your area.

 

Our previous dog was not even a nippy puppy, fine taking things off him other than bones, he would give a very strong warning growl if you went any where near him when he had a bone. Answer, he was left in peace with it - tended to give him bones outside.

 

First of all I'd be looking at a thorough vet check if this behaviour is as out of character as you say. Especially if she usually eats immediately and this time didn't.

And then if that's all clear I agree with Ouesi. The fact she went so far would concern me to be honest. Has she ever been punished for growling or anything before? Either way, I think your best bet is a reputable behaviourist.

 

My husband is slightly ranting and understandably concerned that she needs more 'training' - but I've got no idea how to train her not to do something that she never usually does. She's very attached to me, and normally follows me around the house or lies down outside any door I close on her. I do all her walks. My husband, on the other hand, has admitted he's always held aloof from her, because he didn't want her to get attached to him as our last dog did - she ended up doing nothing but sleeping at his feet all day.

I would hate to think that Cookie was any danger to our little girl, but she's never actually behaved aggressively towards her. My husband thinks that she must see him as lower in the pack or something. I had understood that the whole pack theory idea was discredited. Any suggestions? Apart from anything, this is likely to cause domestic disharmony.

I'm siding with your husband. Will you forgive me ?

Cookie DOES need more education (I'm not really a fan of "training) and guidance.

However, in terms of her resource guarding towards him but not you, logic dictates that HE is the one who needs to educate her.

What happened here is quite straight forward - Cookie has failed to extrapolate that resource guarding isn't merely unacceptable towards YOU but everyone. It doesn't matter whether you call it a rank issue or anything else, she doesn't comprehend that guarding and defending her stuff is a no-go towards ANY human. Adult, child, living in house or visiting.

Tell your husband to get involved NOW. He is the one feeding her and implementing a "swap for something better " strategy, adding better food to her bowl during feeding ( NB do not do this UNTIL she happily swaps posessions outside of feeding). Start with low value items and work upwards.

 

Long time lurker, I've finally made an account to consult the community about a worrying incident this morning with my Springer Spaniel, Cookie.

She is 18 months old, and has been with us (from a very reputable, health-testing breeder) from an eight-week old puppy. Apart from a few recall problems out of doors, and the general chewy boisterousness of a young energetic gun-dog, she's been absolutely fine. She gets three walks a day in the countryside, where we live surrounded by woods and fields, and eats a mixture of good-quality kibble and raw. (I would feed her a complete raw diet but we've had financial problems over the last year and I can't always afford it.)

The food is relevant. Yesterday, I bought her as a treat one of those HUGE turkey legs you can get cheapish in Tesco. I thought that would feed her for a whole day! She's had them before, once or twice, and crunched them down to nothing. I unwrapped it first thing this morning, after her walk, and put it in her bowl. Usually I make her sit and wait for permission to eat, which she does very obediently. This morning, she seemed uninterested in the joint, which I thought was odd. But it's very hot - I thought her appetite might be affected by the heat. I left her shut in the kitchen (I didn't want her dragging the raw joint through the house) while I went upstairs to have my own breakfast in bed.

About half an hour later, my husband came storming upstairs and said that Cookie had growled at him and grabbed at his tie when he just bent down to the bowl to look at the untouched meat. He too was wondering why she hadn't started to eat it. So he grabbed her collar and put her in her crate for five minutes. When he let her out, he says that she actually clamped her jaw round his wrist and nearly bit him (there were no marks on the skin). She never, ever growls and I have never, ever seen her display the least aggressiveness towards a person before. My husband was very angry and said that he couldn't be sure that she was safe to be around our five-year-old.

He also said I wouldn't be able to get the joint off her - she'd now dragged it into her crate and seemed to be guarding it, still uneaten. I went down to the kitchen, told Cookie to sit, and calmly removed the turkey leg and put it in the fridge. Cookie displayed no aggression or reaction at all.

My husband is slightly ranting and understandably concerned that she needs more 'training' - but I've got no idea how to train her not to do something that she never usually does. She's very attached to me, and normally follows me around the house or lies down outside any door I close on her. I do all her walks. My husband, on the other hand, has admitted he's always held aloof from her, because he didn't want her to get attached to him as our last dog did - she ended up doing nothing but sleeping at his feet all day.

I would hate to think that Cookie was any danger to our little girl, but she's never actually behaved aggressively towards her. My husband thinks that she must see him as lower in the pack or something. I had understood that the whole pack theory idea was discredited. Any suggestions? Apart from anything, this is likely to cause domestic disharmony.

I am with your husband.

Sadly, I would actually go further than your husband and get rid of the dog.
I have a five year old as well, and a newborn.
I just would not keep a dog that was so willing to bite.

Many on here might disagree but IMO, you should be able to take anything from your dog without the merest hint of nastiness.
Your dog needs to understand that she does as you say and while I take on board a previous poster's comment about how you would you feel if someone tried to take the best present away you have to consider the future.
What if your dog is chewing a toy and ends up splintering it and could be injured but you can't remove the toy incase it bites you....?
What if she gets her paws on a box of chocolates you dropped from the counter, they are poisonous and could kill - but what if you have no option but to let her eat them because she might hurt you?
What if your child walks past while she has a bone and she has a go at her?

No I would not risk it personally.
If you want to try and get a behaviourist in to address the issue that's your call but I know what I would do.

 

As a mother of two I would do anything to protect my kids.

However..."getting rid" of a dog is something that needs a lot of thought! Don't get me wrong aggression is a hard one...but this is specific!!! This is resource guarding.

My Cav resource guards her bones. Not food, toys or treat, but bones. I can take it off her if I need to. So can my OH now, but she will growl at my children and at Barney. I am not worried as I have seen Barney take it, and the kids too, and she just gives up.

So my solution? Don't give her the bones when kids are around (I know you haven't pointed this out as an issue...but obviously it could be). Give it her at a certain point of the day, and let her have it un-disturbed...don't allow your hubby or kids near her. Then for now, YOU will have to be the one to take it off her at the end of that point...but swap it for something she likes. I wanted to share this as Rosie doesn't growl at the kids any more...as she knows they won't take it off her...but mainly because I have educated them about this issue and they know to leave her alone.

But I think the issue is your husband's reactions to her. He doesn't need to be as close as you to her, but some basic training and play will improve relations.

I am not a credentialed trainer...I am speaking from experience based on advice from my trainer and the more knowledgeable people on here.

 

I am with your husband.

Sadly, I would actually go further than your husband and get rid of the dog.
I have a five year old as well, and a newborn.
I just would not keep a dog that was so willing to bite.

Many on here might disagree but IMO, you should be able to take anything from your dog without the merest hint of nastiness.
Your dog needs to understand that she does as you say and while I take on board a previous poster's comment about how you would you feel if someone tried to take the best present away you have to consider the future.
What if your dog is chewing a toy and ends up splintering it and could be injured but you can't remove the toy incase it bites you....?
What if she gets her paws on a box of chocolates you dropped from the counter, they are poisonous and could kill - but what if you have no option but to let her eat them because she might hurt you?
What if your child walks past while she has a bone and she has a go at her?

No I would not risk it personally.
If you want to try and get a behaviourist in to address the issue that's your call but I know what I would do.

I believe this was a single out of character incident? I would be looking for a behavioural consult before I made any rash decisions - rehoming the dog privately isn't really on with potential undiagnosed issues, a rescue place may not be forthcoming and in my opinion euthanasia is a bit extreme given this is a single incident (which didn't actually result in a bite) from a seemingly otherwise well balanced dog.

If I were the OP I would get an opinion from a good behaviourist ASAP. It may be that keeping the dog happily and safely is entirely manageable. If you do subsequently decide that you can't cope with the dog at least following a behavioural consult you'll be in a better position to advise her future home of her issues. In the meantime I would avoid giving her anything really high value like bones, or at least make sure she is somewhere safe with them and that everyone in the house knows where she is, and that she mustn't be disturbed until she's finished.

 

Many on here might disagree but IMO, you should be able to take anything from your dog without the merest hint of nastiness.

Why? Because you're human and they're dog? Would you seriously not object to someone taking something you valued away from you? I sure as hell would! Does that make me nasty? You really need to stop advising people to get rid of their dog imo, it's far from the first time you've done it.

The safety issues...yes, there may well be times you need to take things from your dog but resource guarding is very often a relatively easily fixed problem given the right methods. None of this taking the valued resource away to show them who's boss etc, that's likely to cause resource guarding rather than fix it. I would certainly be feeding this dog where the kids can't get to her but I can't say I'd be immediately looking to "get rid". And certainly not in the heat of the moment when the decision is likely to be made out of shock and anger and not fully thought through.

 

Resource guarding is *very* fixable behavior. It’s also very normal behavior in pretty much all dogs.

That the dog bit could be viewed as a good thing
Now we know what the dog’s triggers are (resources) we know what kind of threshold the dogs has, and we know what kind of bite inhibition the dog has. All of this is incredibly useful information that in the right hands can serve to make this dog even more safe than a dog who has never bitten.

Aside from reading up on resource guarding, this is also a good dog/kid article:
I Think My Dog Might Bite My Kids…And I'm Glad | Dogs and Babies

 

Many on here might disagree but IMO, you should be able to take anything from your dog without the merest hint of nastiness.

I fully agree with you.

But getting to this point usually involves education.

How would the dog KNOW that her instinctive behaviour isn't ok unless someone teaches her?

Are you giving your children up for adoption each time they make a mistake from not understanding better because you failed to educate them? No. As owners we made a commitment to our dog that we will do our utmost to keep them from harm. Kicking them out at the first transgression doesn't fall under diligent ownership.

Aside....what did the OP's young Springer Spaniel do? Transcend into a rabid state and inflict mortal wounds? Also, no. She said "no you can't have it, it is mine" in dog language. Now she has to learn the human rules.

 

Why? Because you're human and they're dog? Would you seriously not object to someone taking something you valued away from you? I sure as hell would! Does that make me nasty? You really need to stop advising people to get rid of their dog imo, it's far from the first time you've done it.

The safety issues...yes, there may well be times you need to take things from your dog but resource guarding is very often a relatively easily fixed problem given the right methods. None of this taking the valued resource away to show them who's boss etc, that's likely to cause resource guarding rather than fix it. I would certainly be feeding this dog where the kids can't get to her but I can't say I'd be immediately looking to "get rid". And certainly not in the heat of the moment when the decision is likely to be made out of shock and anger and not fully thought through.

IMO, you cannot have a dog think its acceptable to try and bite you just for taking something away.
There may be a time where you have to remove something for their safety, or handle them when injured, they have to accept that in good grace not go biting you.
The op's husband didn't even take the bone away!
He only bent down near the dog to try and see why she hadn't eaten it.
What if next time their daughter just stands near the bone and the dog feels it justified to try and bite her?

The only times I have suggested someone gets rid is when their dog shows aggression towards children.
Sorry if I prioritise children's safety over a dogs feelings!
I will never, ever, understand keeping dogs that show aggression either towards children or to people when there are children in the house.

Also, I don't agree with taking things away 'to show whose boss' I think it's outdated and unfair, our dog was petted while eating and had treats like ham or hot dogs added while she was eating so she doesn't mind people getting close as she thinks something better is coming.
I can take anything away from my dog with no repercussions and especially if you have kids that is how it should be.

Imo, dogs need to know what is acceptable and what is not.
If your child kicked up a storm because you realised a toy you bought was unsuitable and so removed it from them would you discipline your child for behaving aggressively or would you do a deal and give them chocolate?

I am all for positive training, but they do need to know when they have done something wrong. IMO anyway.

 

Aside....what did the OP's young Springer Spaniel do? Transcend into a rabid state and inflict mortal wounds? Also, no. She said "no you can't have it, it is mine" in dog language. Now she has to learn the human rules.

What did she do?
She bit the husbands tie then grabbed a hold of his wrist!
I would not be impressed if my dog so much as growled at me approaching a toy or food item but to actually go and bite someone, without even a warning first.
I would not be happy keeping that animal, of course, behaviourists are out there to help the op though.

Yes she does need to be taught the rules, but I would expect a dog to maybe let out a little growl, then progress to lunging, biting etc.
Not just go straight ahead and bite, I think that is worrying.

 

IMO, you cannot have a dog think its acceptable to try and bite you just for taking something away.
There may be a time where you have to remove something for their safety, or handle them when injured, they have to accept that in good grace not go biting you.
The op's husband didn't even take the bone away!
He only bent down near the dog to try and see why she hadn't eaten it.
What if next time their daughter just stands near the bone and the dog feels it justified to try and bite her?

The only times I have suggested someone gets rid is when their dog shows aggression towards children.
Sorry if I prioritise children's safety over a dogs feelings!
I will never, ever, understand keeping dogs that show aggression either towards children or to people when there are children in the house.

Also, I don't agree with taking things away 'to show whose boss' I think it's outdated and unfair, our dog was petted while eating and had treats like ham or hot dogs added while she was eating so she doesn't mind people getting close as she thinks something better is coming.
I can take anything away from my dog with no repercussions and especially if you have kids that is how it should be.

Imo, dogs need to know what is acceptable and what is not.
If your child kicked up a storm because you realised a toy you bought was unsuitable and so removed it from them would you discipline your child for behaving aggressively or would you do a deal and give them chocolate?

I am all for positive training, but they do need to know when they have done something wrong. IMO anyway.

It depends on a lot of things though:
- whether the dog's triggers are predictable
- whether the triggers are manageable (ie can be eliminated or steps put in place to prevent an "accident")
- whether the family has the time/inclination to work on a behavioural modification program
- age of the children, how dog savvy they are
- how good the dogs bite inhibition is

A dog who only guards bones is manageable in a house with children - either don't give bones or don't give them when kids are around. I can understand why people re home a dog they're not comfortable around or they can't put in the time to rehabilitate - that's perfectly understandable. But equally if you've made a reasoned assessment of the situation and your ability to deal with it then I don't think it's unreasonable to keep a dog with issues, even if there are kids in the house.

My dog has many of the issues you mention - guards various things, can be fearful of being handled etc. But we've made tons of progress with him and continue to do so. Someone suggested to me I should have him PTS when his issues started to surface. So glad I didn't he's an amazing, obedient, clever, loving dog 99% of the time and we are able to manage the situation so that the 1% of the time he gets stressed we don't run into problems.

 

What did she do?
She bit the husbands tie then grabbed a hold of his wrist!
I would not be impressed if my dog so much as growled at me approaching a toy or food item but to actually go and bite someone, without even a warning first.
I would not be happy keeping that animal, of course, behaviourists are out there to help the op though.

Yes she does need to be taught the rules, but I would expect a dog to maybe let out a little growl, then progress to lunging, biting etc.
Not just go straight ahead and bite, I think that is worrying.

It is! No one said that this shouldn't be addressed instantly.

But without being there to see what had actually gone on - the OP wasn't present either - it is indefensible to say that the dog should be rehomed. Maybe it was exactly as the OP's husband described, maybe due to his surprise HE wasn't quite sure what exactly happened, maybe the dog was more scared than resource guarding...there are a lot of questions.

I am not one who thinks every incident with a dog warrants a behavioural consult, but in this case, it may be hugely beneficial.

 

Regardless of who is right or wrong (dog or human) the number one rule in any confrontation is management (ie safety first).

So no anger. No ‘he can’t do this to me’. No ‘very angry’. If you haven’t guided the dog to that conclusion (through training and boundries) yet then this is not the right time to be confronting him. The dog hasn’t got it wrong. You have. (No offence intended but when our dogs have a go it’s time to stop and think …why?)

Why did your dog clamp onto your husbands wrist …most probably because the last thing your husband did was to proactively threaten (grab collar and drag the dog to his crate). Frighten a dog with a threat of physicality and a dog becomes a dog becomes wolf. Forget pack order. That’s nature.

Resource guarding is natural but is it has to be worked with in the home.

This issue is one that is best dealt with by a professional. It’s a one off, let’s keep it that way.

J

 

Am I being thick or something? If the dog has never displayed any sort of resource guarding before and this is a one off incident triggered by being left alone in the kitchen with a big bone (which is a bit risky isn't it from a safety point of view) on a hot day then why don't you just have a rule that any food not eaten when given is picked up within say 5 mins. Colt my GSP is a gentle boy, not very pushy where food is concerned but give him a chicken carcass or a pigs trotter and he will guard it from the other dogs and from us. Therefore the dogs are separated to their own space with bones and if they don't get on and eat them I swap it for a bit of cheese or sausage and put the bone away in the fridge for later.

 

Not one person has said it's okay for a dog to bite you for taking things away Sparkle. And everyone has said it's an issue that needs addressing. What people are saying is that this is likely an issue that is very easily managed and rectified, even with children in the house. It's very easy to yell "get rid" when something happens with someone elses dog. Your own dog has growled at you, you have children, you don't seem to see that as a problem yet have advised others to rehome their dogs that have growled.

As I said in my first post, vet check and behavioural help. In the meantime don't have the dog around food with the children around and don't give bones. We lived with a serious food guarder for years and never had an incident with children due to management.

 

IMO, you cannot have a dog think its acceptable to try and bite you just for taking something away.
There may be a time where you have to remove something for their safety, or handle them when injured, they have to accept that in good grace not go biting you.
The op's husband didn't even take the bone away!
He only bent down near the dog to try and see why she hadn't eaten it.
What if next time their daughter just stands near the bone and the dog feels it justified to try and bite her?

Nobody has said this behavior is acceptable, it’s not.
Resource guarding is not acceptable behavior, but just like things like humping and marking and rolling in dead disgustingness it is very normal dog behavior, and very manageable dog behavior. To be fair, I’d say resource guarding is way more fixable than rolling in disgusting things. I’ve yet to get a handle on the latter!
With good behavior modification and sensible management, there should not be a ‘what if’ with the OP’s daughter.

The only times I have suggested someone gets rid is when their dog shows aggression towards children.
Sorry if I prioritise children's safety over a dogs feelings!
I will never, ever, understand keeping dogs that show aggression either towards children or to people when there are children in the house.

Aggression is not a simple black and white issue where if there is aggression that’s it, done.
For one, all dogs are capable of aggression. ALL dogs.
And let’s face it, there is a big difference between a dog who nips the vet during a procedure while stressed and in pain and a dog who will shred your arm for looking at him too hard.
Triggers, thresholds, bite inhibition, general temperament, all of this matters when assessing a dog’s safety.

Also, I don't agree with taking things away 'to show whose boss' I think it's outdated and unfair, our dog was petted while eating and had treats like ham or hot dogs added while she was eating so she doesn't mind people getting close as she thinks something better is coming.
I can take anything away from my dog with no repercussions and especially if you have kids that is how it should be.

Right, you taught her to associate human proximity to food with good things. Why should this dog not have the same opportunity to learn to make pleasant associations with humans around food and not feel the need to guard?

Imo, dogs need to know what is acceptable and what is not.
If your child kicked up a storm because you realised a toy you bought was unsuitable and so removed it from them would you discipline your child for behaving aggressively or would you do a deal and give them chocolate?

I am all for positive training, but they do need to know when they have done something wrong. IMO anyway.

I’m not sure how getting rid of the dog teaches the dog that he/she did anything wrong? Or maybe I’m just missing your point.
As to the child example, I would do neither, I would support my child through her feelings of disappointment and help her learn appropriate ways of expressing that emotion (though I can definitely get on board with feeding emotions chocolate - especially if it’s good dark chocolate... ) But children are not dogs and though there are some parallels, there are also important differences.

 

I am with your husband.

Sadly, I would actually go further than your husband and get rid of the dog.
I have a five year old as well, and a newborn.
I just would not keep a dog that was so willing to bite.

Many on here might disagree but IMO, you should be able to take anything from your dog without the merest hint of nastiness.
Your dog needs to understand that she does as you say and while I take on board a previous poster's comment about how you would you feel if someone tried to take the best present away you have to consider the future.
What if your dog is chewing a toy and ends up splintering it and could be injured but you can't remove the toy incase it bites you....?
What if she gets her paws on a box of chocolates you dropped from the counter, they are poisonous and could kill - but what if you have no option but to let her eat them because she might hurt you?
What if your child walks past while she has a bone and she has a go at her?

No I would not risk it personally.
If you want to try and get a behaviourist in to address the issue that's your call but I know what I would do.

This kind of attitude really irritates me, I'm afraid.

What exactly does "Get Rid" of the dog mean? Pass it to somebody else, thereby passing on the problem? Put it into one of the already overburdened Shelters or Pounds?

There are enough unwanted dogs. If you're going to give up on a dog for one, isolated, incident, you shouldn't have a dog in the first place.

 

Not one person has said it's okay for a dog to bite you for taking things away Sparkle. And everyone has said it's an issue that needs addressing. What people are saying is that this is likely an issue that is very easily managed and rectified, even with children in the house. It's very easy to yell "get rid" when something happens with someone elses dog. Your own dog has growled at you, you have children, you don't seem to see that as a problem yet have advised others to rehome their dogs that have growled.

As I said in my first post, vet check and behavioural help. In the meantime don't have the dog around food with the children around and don't give bones. We lived with a serious food guarder for years and never had an incident with children due to management.

Yeah, a tiny growl and nip when her feet hurt.
I am not even convinced that she meant to nip as hard as she did as she often gets in my face and is an affectionate nibbler.
Did say that at the time as well.
She didn't go and bite me did she?!
I can assure you that if she had properly growled/snarled at me, teeth etc or grabbed a hold of my wrist she would be gone.

If daisy had been my dog (remember that thread, when most people thought a behaviourist should be in, I was soooo unreasonable to suggest that god forbid she should be rehomed. Worked out well didn't it!) or if this springer was my dog and they did they would be gone.
I can't recall commenting get rid on anyone else's dog tbh but then I have been here a while.

My dog has never shown aggression to any children, she lunged at a baby and if you remember she was close to going then, so don't try and make me out to be a hypocrite. It was only the fact that the rescue insisted there was no malice that she stayed.