Murphs' aren't showing any shell bit yet, i dont think?

Do you think they are ready for another go? These are the front ones and he is a bit more resistant to the front ones being done. In fact he was a bit suspicious of me taking this pic!

Done a decent job on my own nails, though maybe some hand cream could be in order!

 

The part I've circled in red is the pulp, the shell is the part I've marked in purple,
Oops, hit reply too soon.

Okay, the top purple part you can knock a whole lot back on that. See how big that area is? You can dremel that all day long and he won't feel it, it's all dead 'shell' nail.
See how it looks like all that purple part wraps around a center darker part? That's the shell. That's the part you can round out so that the middle darker part is more exposed.
Then the bottom in blue, level that off as well. That's where you will feel the 'shell' push out in a few days, but you have to level it first.

You're no where near his quick, that center pulpy part will get more squishy and softer nearer the quick, you'll notice a marked difference in the texture. It's pretty dry and crumbly still so you're still safe

 

Great thanks @O2.0

 

Oh that's great thanks

Only a thread started by me could go so off topic it switches from dogs to guinea pigs:Hilarious

 

@O2.0 actually I have a question. Do you use the rotary tool on Penny yet? If so how the flip do you do the sides of the nail? I find it really tricky given how small everything is and so how close all the other nails are.
(Cad does his with a scratchboard, but then I help out extra with the 2 inside nails as he doesn't put even pressure on)

Only a thread started by me could go so off topic it switches from dogs to guinea pigs:Hilarious

To be fair, you mentioned pigs in your 2nd reply right back on page 1

 

Yay I did Tilly's nails!
She was licking her leg and I started and she didn't even notice. I did a couple but she then got up so we just did it where someone was handing out treats to keep her staying.
As she could do with a lot taking off she needed to wait for much longer than just maintaining.
Could still do with a lot going but for a first day I'm very pleased and already noticed a difference to nail scraping when on our walk.

Need more practice with trying to do the alternative cut as I found that tricky, I don't know if its because I have the guard on so you can't just move the dremel freely as it needs to be in a specific place.

 

Forgot to say really useful video @O2.0 . It helped to see exactly what I was looking at/should be looking for.

 

Yay @Arny !!!
Will be interesting to see if Tilly seems more comfortable with shorter nails.

I would definitely take the cap off, there's really no need for it that I can tell.
I've taken a still from the video and you can see how close I have it to my own fingers, I've yet to lose one
But seriously I don't even get the point of the cap other than to make the human feel less worried. So if you've already done her nails and she's fine, get rid of the cap

 

Think i will get shot of the guard too. I cant see the point of it. I will have a go at murphs' nails tomorrow hopefully.

It has been all piggy focused today. I cant say it is looking 100% a match made in heaven for Belle and little baby black. Sepa
rating tonight as dont want a dead baby tomorrow.

Baby is just 5 weeks. Belle is the big piggy giving me headaches at the moment. We havent named baby yet as she might need to go back. Will know tomorrow if it can work or not.

 

The pigs seem to have successfully bonded @Torin. Yay!!! Attempt number 5.

Great to have piggy chit chat back again. Belle has been very silent since mike died.

 

@tabelmabel which grinder did you end up buying ?

Was it a good buy ?

I have a Wahl grinder but the sanding rings wear down too quickly and it stops with the slightest bit of pressure despite changing batteries.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Casfuy-Dog-Nail-Grinder-Light/dp/B08CDT1YMZ

This one @Beth78 - identical to o2's. Yes, im pleased with it but i have only done a small amount of grinding on murphs' nails so far. There is a replacement barrel for it available on amazon too.

 

Well someone let me dremel 3.5 nails last night while licking some peanut butter.
Yay for progress!

Can you tell which foot she let me dremel?

 

Got some more off murphs' last night but he will insist on standing up which would be fine if he kept his foot still. Same peanut butter trick here though he seems to hold better for a hotdog sausage.

Will give it another shot tonight.

 

Got two more toes on Penny tonight and working on getting Bates' down a little more.

This is a great visual that shows what long nails do to the foot structure:

And this is my litmus test for how Bates feet feel. He starts getting reluctant to cross the stream here when I let his nails get too long. He worries about balance and footing. If you zoom in, you can see the structure of his foot even with weight on it, his toe joints are fully bent and he can use his paw pads to help him 'feel' when he is and balance better.
This is why it's so important to keep those nails nice and short for the old guys, it makes a huge difference in their mobility

 

Yes, it is very concerning to me how long nails affect the gait of the dog. Murphs was not in a particularly co operative mood tonight so only managed to get the back ones of one foot down a bit more.

He was, however, very tolerant to having a matt broken down and removed from over his hip so that was some progress at least. He's actually very good with grooming generally but he likes the same areas done over and over - and other parts he is not so keen on.

He is booked for the groomer in April so it is imperative i get him entirely mat free by then and keep him clear. I think there is just one more tangly bit in his collar area.

I might ask the groomer to take his foot hair back short so i can keep at the nails.

To think i was all worried about plucking his ear hair! That has turned out to be a piece of cake.

Not much happening with tilly. Well, not quite true as i have been able to handle her paws a bit actually. But she is like a coiled spring.

I wish i'd known all this nail stuff 8 yrs ago when murph was a pup and i do hope some people with young pups join this nail club thread and get their pups started early.

 

The more people the better!
And even if you don't start with a puppy, it's still totally doable (and worthwhile) to get your dog comfortable with paw handling and nail trims, particularly since that dog is going to get old one day and will benefit even more from being okay with paw handling and nail trims.

Bates didn't come to us as a puppy and learned to be fine with feet. And Penny is quickly getting there too. I'm with SG in that you really can teach ALL dogs to be okay with having their feet worked on no matter when you start.

My rehab vet also taught me to stretch and massage their toes. Most learn to really like this. Like a foot massage

 

I think the hardest part for me with Tilly is going to be patience. Her nails seem to be clacking ever louder all the time now because my focus is on them! Really, i just want to anchor her down and hack the whole lot right off

But i know i cant rush her or i will totally blow all the trust built up so far.

I have skipped all the prelim stages with murph, although he is very used to having his coat combed right through to the root and he seems to enjoy it unless i hit a mat. He is really patient at having various plant life picked out of his woolly undercoat.

I have just basically grabbed his foot and had someone hold some peanut butter at his mouth and gone for it!

Some sessions he has been pretty good and he is definitely really cool about his feet being handled. I have done the same stuff with him as with tilly with getting him used to the sound of the dremmel and he seems chilled with the sound.

But when he is lying down and the dremmel goes on, he is on his feet quick smart!

And i just have not had the patience to train him to lie there and relax with the dremel going.

SG would not be happy at all with my manhandling of murphles but i am going the gentle slow way with tills. Will be interesting to see if, in the end, Till gets properly comfortable with it more quickly than murph.

 

I've done a bit of both with Penny.

The first time we clipped her nails, I held her, OH clipped one nail, we threw a party lots of treats, and called it a day.
Next time we did two nails. She didn't like it but again, party party, right afterwards and she was fine.
In between I do lots of paw handling which she is totally fine with.
She now lets me hold her and OH gets all 4 feet with the clippers. She doesn't love it, but she tolerates it.

With the dremel I've been more methodical. Dremel on, mark and treat. Dremel on grab a foot, mark and reward. Dremel on, grab a foot, move dremel to the foot, mark and reward. Slow progressions like that, then backing off in between progressions so it's not always harder and she can feel successful.
In between the methodical desensitization, I also just put down a licky mat of peanut butter and have knocked out a few toes. She doesn't like it, and I make sure to stop before pushing her too far. But also as soon as I stop, the peanut butter goes away. I also make sure I'm not restraining her, that does help move things along a lot faster IME.

Basically there's several approaches:
My dog doesn't like this so I don't do it.
My dog doesn't like this but I make him do it.
My dog doesn't like this and I'm going to teach him to like it.
And the classic, my dog doesn't like this, wait, what was that? Yay! You're done!

Other than not doing it at all, I tend to use each approach as needed.
I think there's room in a healthy dog-human relationship for a certain element of "I know this isn't fun but you have to"
I prefer not to use this approach if avoidable, but truly sometimes you just have to suck it up.

I'm generally an impatient sort, so distraction and getting on with whatever needs to be done is my preferred approach for a lot of things. Like, Bates gets a monthly shot for his knees, he doesn't like it, but it's a minor thing to him and really not worth doing a whole desensitization protocol when I can give him a handful of treats and have his shot done before he even fully figures out what I'm doing.

But nails and basic grooming and handling are worth taking the time to desensitize properly and counter condition in to actually enjoying the process because you can't do it in 10 seconds before the dog notices what has happened and you will have to do it for the life of the dog.

 

Im sure i do use a variety of approaches too, but tend towards the " my dog doesnt like it but has to do it"

Probably not with murphy actually, not so much. There is a give and take there as i know his nature is generally stoic and he really does have a lot of pain in his hips at times (the vet said that)

I also know he will put up with a lot but when he has had enough, he has ways of telling me that really is him at his limit.(i.e he really could give me a very nasty warning bite im sure)

With his nails, he is mainly just pulling his foot away so i carry on. I tend to know when he is building up into a dangerous rage position and know him well enough not to push him over the limit.


Tilly is the biggest drama queen going. She hates both her harness and her equafeece. I have done no conditioning at all. I just stick them on and away we go. She is very gentle. I cannot imagine her snapping, growling or biting me. Her position is always a flight one.

So it is very easy to secure her and just stick the harness on (once on, she seems fine in it) but she is far too wriggly to have any of her feet secured tight.

I will have to be very slow and patient indeed. She has always been like that. I remember the first time i put a lead on her as a puppy. I attached it and let her free to get used to the feel of it and she went off like a cat on hot coals, a real bucking bronco!


I must admit to being a tad jel towards you, Arny and everyone else on here that is sailing through this!

There must be someone else here with another dog like my Tills

 

Lily prefers standing like a horse being shod? (not sure if that's a word) while I cut her nails - I don't mind because it gives me a great view of the underside of her nail.

 

My danes preferred this too, and it was fine, I just sat there and put their foot on my leg

@tabelmabel if the dog is constantly pulling their foot away, let them. It seems like it would make the pulling worse, but letting go eliminates 50% of the battle. Imagine playing tug. If you pull, they pull harder and it increases the pulling effort. But if you drop the tug, there's nothing to pull against. So when they pull away, don't grip harder and pull back, just let go. Then wait a beat (about 3 seconds), take the foot again.
This is also part of consensual handling, ultimately, if they know they *can* pull away and you'll stop, it actually makes the pulling away happen less.
If you watch the video with Bates, you'll notice every time he pulls away I let go of his foot completely, and just take it again.

The other thing is, depending on how reliable a helper you have, you can try timing the licky mat to only appear when the foot is in your hand, and as soon as the foot pulls away, the licky mat goes away too. They actually do figure this out.
Also, try not to pull the foot towards you, but work on the foot where they have it.

 

We might join in here if it's ok with @tabelmabel
I have a new grinder turning up today (thanks @O2.0 for spotting this one, £20 for a replacement really can't be sniffed at lol) so will be cracking on with getting my old boys nails back in shape.
I had really slacked off over lockdown and although they don't touch the floor, they are much too long for him to be comfortable so a spa day is in our future

 

Honestly, no one needs to ask permission to join "nail club"

Everyone is welcome - as long as it can remain supportive and friendly

As it is "my" thread, rules are as follows:


1) Everyone welcome

2) supportive and friendly only comments.

3) Not too much showing off about how wonderful your own dogs are

4) Helpful demonstations are welcome though

5) Remember we are all at different stages and however long it takes each one of us to progress is not up for judgement. We are all trying our best.




Hopefully more and more will join in and the dogs will reap the benefits of shorter nails

 

Got abit carried away just now and cut the quick with the grinder, she didn't react so hopefully theres no discomfort.

Will call it a day I think.

 

she didn't react so hopefully theres no discomfort.

Isn't it crazy? They don't even notice, and it barely bleeds. Entirely different than cutting the quick with clipper. Though in fairness, if you're taking off small shavings with the clippers they don't tend to notice a slight quick there either.
I'd leave that front area alone, but in two days or so, you can knock more back off the top of that nail. Gosh her quicks are long aren't they?

I wouldn't bother with anything honestly. I bet it stopped bleeding shortly after you took the photo
The times I've quicked with a dremel I simply push my own finger pad on to the nail for a few seconds and it's done.

 

That's great though to have got the nail so short I will be delighted when Murph gives me a drop or two of blood


Excellent job!

 

My sister just said cornflour or teabags can be used to stop bleeding, something about tannins. I don't think theres enough blood for that though

 

New My sister just said cornflour or teabags can be used to stop bleeding, something about tannins.

I can confirm the flour part - that is what i use on my pigs. Never heard of the teabag thing.

You can buy styptic powder but flour seems to do just a good a job.

Maybe @O2.0 knows if styptic powder does contain something to actively stop bleeding.

Or if flour is just as good?