What blood tests were done and what was the poo tested for?

I'm confused why your vet says the endeoscopy is invasive yet recommends the full biopsy where they will cut her open and is much more high risk operation.

I don't get how he thinks it's one or the other. Even before my cat when to a referral vet it was still a potential diagnosis but nothing as concrete as your vet seems to make out.

Are you in the uk?

I've never been confident enough to buy over counter meds with out my vets approval.

If you are going down the full biopsy then I would urge you to goto a vet referral clinic as they will be more equipped to do the operation and the aftercare. This will cost a lot of money tho but I would not have it done at my regular vets as they are not geared up to that kind of operation.

I still think more can be done with regards to the food issue and urge you to look at starting an elimination diet as d/d is not an elimination diet as it contains to many ingredients for a start!

 

Sorry to read that Riley is still having probs , (and you have a migraine)so much for avoiding the vet this side of Chrimbo

I know it big time sucks! But we can have a chat about the other med that we can try..thing is apart from the runny mucky bum he is doing so well! He looks a lot bigger dare I say a bit of a fatty!

Hope mr m is doing better on the vomit front..

 

What blood tests were done and what was the poo tested for?

I'm confused why your vet says the endoscopy is invasive yet recommends the full biopsy where they will cut her open and is much more high risk operation.

I don't get how he thinks it's one or the other. Even before my cat when to a referral vet it was still a potential diagnosis but nothing as concrete as your vet seems to make out.

Are you in the uk?

I've never been confident enough to buy over counter meds with out my vets approval.

If you are going down the full biopsy then I would urge you to goto a vet referral clinic as they will be more equipped to do the operation and the aftercare. This will cost a lot of money tho but I would not have it done at my regular vets as they are not geared up to that kind of operation.

I still think more can be done with regards to the food issue and urge you to look at starting an elimination diet as d/d is not an elimination diet as it contains to many ingredients for a start!

It was a "full blood panel" and the poo was tested for parasites only. "Everything looked normal" and "all blood levels were good"

My vet said the order if I had infinite money would be ultrasound -> endoscopy -> full biopsy

Since he knows money is tight, he said a one time full biopsy will make sure it's not only lower IBD but not upper intestinal as well, and also will look for deep polyps which may also be the cause of all this that an endoscopy may not find. He also said he wanted to make sure it wasn't ulcers in the lower/upper tract even though the blood was bright red.

That's his train of thought. He prefers me to do all 3 diagnostics, like you, but it's just not feasible for me. He wouldn't be doing the full biopsy himself either, there's a huge animal hospital I would be going to, so he's not just trying to make a buck.

I guess there is a disagreement on diet - he said the d/d venison was really the last food to try, perhaps I should try something else since you seem to think otherwise? I asked about raw diet and he said "it's too hard and risky for the cat" and "because we saw great progress with d/d we should stick with it" (the amount and frequency of blood became greatly reduced, although never eliminated, poop stopped smelling foul)

Every medicine given to Light was prescribed by my vet or recommended, including the chloratimatron (antihistamine) which worked for a year and got rid of the scooting until recently. My vet is now recommending steroids to get rid of the allergies/scooting ("caused by the IDB")

Maybe I should jump for an endoscopy instead of the full biopsy like you recommend. It's something I could afford pretty soon.

 

Welcome to the IBD club manykitties! There are lots of us here!

Nicola Mr R looking fat good news! Hope you feel better soon and that Mr R continues to er look a bit porky!

Hope Mr M is behaving himself and not vomiting :thumbup1:

Karlo meanwhile is still going on ok. However he is at times being reluctant to eat his RC sachets. I'm having to put fortiflora on it sometimes to persuade him to eat. He's still having raw chicken and a bit of Grau with rice chicken and turkey and has been ok at the rear end!

Now manykitties we have tracked down lots of alternatives to the hills but they may not be an option for you depending on where you live? Have you tried puss on raw at all as lots of IBD cats seem to do well on it if they will eat it! It's not really hard or risky many vets like to scare people though and persuade them to buy their expensive diets instead. Lots of us feed raw here with some success

 

I understand what he is saying about the order of things and money. I personally would not have Riley have full biopsy as it would be too much stress on him. The endescopy he had was enough to determine ibd. I am pleased to hear it would be done at a referral clinic. It is a big operation tho..but you have to do what you feel is best and if money is tight..

As for food. I am surprised he has not mentioned z/d as that is a hydrolised food there fore a cat should not have a reaction to it. Elimination diets are normally horse, reindeer, kanagroo and the like. As for raw most cats do very well and symptoms pass very quickly by having a raw diet, mine won't eat raw otherwise he would be on it..most vets do not get taught about cat diets! There is a lot of info on the forum about raw diets if you want to try that.

With the tests was TF tested for? Could be a reason for the blood in the poo.

I'm not sure about general ibd but cats who can eat something that they have no reaction to can then become intolerant too over time whether that be quickly or longer. So as he could eat the d/d as mine could he still had reactions to it which is why I put him on kanagroo..tho sadly it seems that now he could be reacting to that as well. With Riley it's like his body just rejects food. With out the weekly chlorambucil I am sure he would now be dead as it's the one thing that turned it around for him there is another drug we will look at to try, but in all fairness I accept that he will always have problems in the back end dept. ibd can not be cured but hopefully managed.

I'm not recommended what course of action you take as you know your cat and your vet..what I would say is read up on ibd and diet and then make a decision..

 

Welcome to the IBD club manykitties! There are lots of us here!

Nicola Mr R looking fat good news! Hope you feel better soon and that Mr R continues to er look a bit porky!

Hope Mr M is behaving himself and not vomiting :thumbup1:

Karlo meanwhile is still going on ok. However he is at times being reluctant to eat his RC sachets. I'm having to put fortiflora on it sometimes to persuade him to eat. He's still having raw chicken and a bit of Grau with rice chicken and turkey and has been ok at the rear end!

Now manykitties we have tracked down lots of alternatives to the hills but they may not be an option for you depending on where you live? Have you tried puss on raw at all as lots of IBD cats seem to do well on it if they will eat it! It's not really hard or risky many vets like to scare people though and persuade them to buy their expensive diets instead. Lots of us feed raw here with some success

Looking fat..but runny bum is back :mad2:

Pleased to hear Karlo is still doing well :thumbup1: I dream of ok rear ends

 

For those who have been reading my story, do you guys think I should get light tested for allergens? If I had to do an endoscopy or test for allergens, which should I try? I can probly do one or the other next week.

Can you link me a raw diet you know won't hurt my cat that other cats seem to respond too? I guess maybe I should try it.

The fact my vet steers me towards D/D and away from a raw diet makes me think maybe hes just out to make a buck since hes the one selling me the D/D, but perhaps im being cynicle.

BTW, I'm in the eastern USA.

 

For those who have been reading my story, do you guys think I should get light tested for allergens? If I had to do an endoscopy or test for allergens, which should I try? I can probly do one or the other next week.

Can you link me a raw diet you know won't hurt my cat that other cats seem to respond too? I guess maybe I should try it.

No one can make the decision as we are not in a position to say, but what I would say is read up on ibd, read up on cat allergies so when you make the decision it's an informed one.

However what I would do if I was in your shoes is defiantly look at the diet

 

If he was out to make money you would have tried I/d, z/d plus other hills or rc diets..just most vets do not get taught about diet..

Google cats with ibd and food..it will give you lots of sites saying single no grain food is a way to start if you are not fully sure on raw..

Oh and edit..did the poo test cover TF?

 

No one can make the decision as we are not in a position to say, but what I would say is read up on ibd, read up on cat allergies so when you make the decision it's an informed one.

However what I would do if I was in your shoes is defiantly look at the diet

So you think I should try Z/D or a raw diet? I can order Z/D right now. I bet Light will eat it no problem, that one shoulda been a wolf.

I don't know about the TF test, I will have to ask. When he gave Light the dose of Albon, metronidazole, and Revolution, he said "no parasite will survive"

 

For those who have been reading my story, do you guys think I should get light tested for allergens? If I had to do an endoscopy or test for allergens, which should I try? I can probly do one or the other next week.

Can you link me a raw diet you know won't hurt my cat that other cats seem to respond too? I guess maybe I should try it.

The fact my vet steers me towards D/D and away from a raw diet makes me think maybe hes just out to make a buck since hes the one selling me the D/D, but perhaps im being cynicle.

BTW, I'm in the eastern USA.

You edit your posts so I miss things with my frazzled brain

If you are in the USA you have so much more foods to try that are novel protein! You have aligator, buffalo to mention a few..there was a company that I was hoping would ship to the uk..can't remember now but the food looked good and was single protein with limited extras!

 

Yes I can remember looking at some as well and I can't remember what it was apart from blue buffalo?

 

So you think I should try Z/D or a raw diet? I can order Z/D right now. I bet Light will eat it no problem, that one shoulda been a wolf.

I don't know about the TF test, I will have to ask. When he gave Light the dose of Albon, metronidazole, and Revolution, he said "no parasite will survive"

TF is another thing to rule out as can cause blood and stinky poo..

By all means try the z/d but I can't stress enough do some research on ibd and food..it won't hurt to just leap in but a little knowledge is better than none..as for the z/d the wet is yuck and Riley would not really eat it and I prefer him to be on wet with him having diarrhoea due to dehydration.

 

Yes I can remember looking at some as well and I can't remember what it was apart from blue buffalo?

From memory it was natural something..

 

TF is another thing to rule out as can cause blood and stinky poo..

By all means try the z/d but I can't stress enough do some research on ibd and food..it won't hurt to just leap in but a little knowledge is better than none..as for the z/d the wet is yuck and Riley would not really eat it and I prefer him to be on wet with him having diarrhoea due to dehydration.

My late Oska originally had I/d when he developed triaditis. When he was later put on z/d he refused to eat the dry never mind the wet!

 

Hey guys, got some Z/D Ordered today. Were going to try to switch her from D/D to Z/D. Hopefully lights "allergies" response to the food soothes her IBD and itchy skin a bit.

I wanted to correct myself about one thing I mentioned earlier, my vet first tried I/D for six months (hypoallergenic), then we moved on to D/D (to try venison protein)

Were going to give the Hydrolyzed Protein a try as suggested by Nicolaa, I've got my fingers crossed it relieves the skin irritation.

Her poop has been in good condition recently. only blood 10%-20% of the time if that, and just a tiny amount with some mucus. It almost always comes out after the poop.

If the Z/D doesn't show a dramatic help, were going to get the endoscopy next week, but I'm confused what would really change if we confirm it's IBD and what would be the next step..steroids most likely

perhaps gator ? lol. :thumbup1:

 

Hey guys, got some Z/D Ordered today. Were going to try to switch her from D/D to Z/D. Hopefully lights "allergies" response to the food soothes her IBD and itchy skin a bit.

I wanted to correct myself about one thing I mentioned earlier, my vet first tried I/D for six months (hypoallergenic), then we moved on to D/D (to try venison protein)

Were going to give the Hydrolyzed Protein a try as suggested by Nicolaa, I've got my fingers crossed it relieves the skin irritation.

Her poop has been in good condition recently. only blood 10%-20% of the time if that, and just a tiny amount with some mucus. It almost always comes out after the poop.

If the Z/D doesn't show a dramatic help, were going to get the endoscopy next week, but I'm confused what would really change if we confirm it's IBD and what would be the next step..steroids most likely

perhaps gator ? lol. :thumbup1:

Just a point I/d is not hypoallergenic in the slightest!! Your vet seriously lacks food knowledge..:mad2:

Nothing will change if it's confirmed ibd..but you will have to look at food triggers, which is why an elimination diet is so key for cats with ibd. If you know the triggers you can avoid them. I would try the alligator as long as the other ingredients are limited. You never know the z/d may work and you can avoid steroids and the like. The steroids or ab's only really mask the problem and whilst ibd will never be cured food can play a big part.

Or you may be in the same position as my cat is in and will be on meds for the rest of his life with me pulling my hair out!

 

Or you may be in the same position as my cat is in and will be on meds for the rest of his life with me pulling my hair out!

I just wanted to let you know without a patient and caring parent like yourself your kitty wouldn't be any where near as happy as he is today

I'll let you know how to Z/d works. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Also, I think the I/D Was for "gastritis", certainly was worth a shot although yes, the Z/D should of obviously been tried a long time ago. I think my vet is geniunly trying although like you said they probably don't know much about nutrition.

 

I just wanted to let you know without a patient and caring parent like yourself your kitty wouldn't be any where near as happy as he is today

I'll let you know how to Z/d works. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Also, I think the I/D Was for "gastritis", certainly was worth a shot although yes, the Z/D should of obviously been tried a long time ago. I think my vet is geniunly trying although like you said they probably don't know much about nutrition.

Well today was a good day :thumbup1: no bum wiping needed :thumbup1:

Yes I/d is meant to be easy on the tummy, but if you google the ingredients you will see so many of them that really should not be in cat food. However it is always worth a try and worked with my cat until his body rejected it!

Z/d may well work..fingers crossed it does..

 

Blinking typical another (for want of a better word) lovely poo! Still we are booked to go Wednesday and go we will!

I just don't get my little boy I really don't!

 

So.... some of you may well remember me (and some of you may even know a little of why I've been gone such a long time....) to cut a long story short, I have had a horrendous time including being homeless and jobless!

But, I'm back, and more importantly, I still have my little boy (although he's not so little now) Tom... and he still has IBD and EPI (endocrine pancreatic insufficiency).

A brief background- he was fine eating the z/d wet (for those of you who don't know, Tom has to be on wet food as he has to take pancreatic enzymes since he doesn't produce them himself, and they have to be given alongside food). So, anyway Tom went from eating the wet fine, to me having to mix in dry, to me having to handfeed a mix of wet and dry (wet z/d and dry Purina HA), to, tonight, not even eating the dry food. He's scared of his food bowl, so he only eats off the floor, because he clearly associates the bowl with bad things- I've gone through a million different bowls and no help. He runs away from me if I bring food near him, and basically I'm at my wits end with him. He regularly has me in tears every night about this.

His recent refusal of food has coincided with a slight squidgyness returning to his toilet- he's on Lypex enzymes (half a capsule with each meal), an antacid (Zitac) 1/8 a tablet twice a day and 1.5mg of prednisolone 1 day in 3. I went to the vet on friday regarding his food refusal and they said not to change his food and to up his pred as that might be why his appetite is going, but I KNOW this isn't the reason- but try explaining this to the bloody vet. He's a great vet but Tom's refusal is because he hates the food not because he might be having a slight flair up and that's why he's losing his appetite.

I'm wondering what you guys are all feeding at the moment, and if any of you know if there is any other wet hydrolyzed protein foods for cats that are available in the UK?

Any words of advice would be amazing, since I'm struggling so much that sometimes I wonder if it's even fair to keep him going when we both get so stressed about it all... the poor thing runs away from me half the time and I don't know what to do.... :'(

 

So.... some of you may well remember me (and some of you may even know a little of why I've been gone such a long time....) to cut a long story short, I have had a horrendous time including being homeless and jobless!

But, I'm back, and more importantly, I still have my little boy (although he's not so little now) Tom... and he still has IBD and EPI (endocrine pancreatic insufficiency).

A brief background- he was fine eating the z/d wet (for those of you who don't know, Tom has to be on wet food as he has to take pancreatic enzymes since he doesn't produce them himself, and they have to be given alongside food). So, anyway Tom went from eating the wet fine, to me having to mix in dry, to me having to handfeed a mix of wet and dry (wet z/d and dry Purina HA), to, tonight, not even eating the dry food. He's scared of his food bowl, so he only eats off the floor, because he clearly associates the bowl with bad things- I've gone through a million different bowls and no help. He runs away from me if I bring food near him, and basically I'm at my wits end with him. He regularly has me in tears every night about this.

His recent refusal of food has coincided with a slight squidgyness returning to his toilet- he's on Lypex enzymes (half a capsule with each meal), an antacid (Zitac) 1/8 a tablet twice a day and 1.5mg of prednisolone 1 day in 3. I went to the vet on friday regarding his food refusal and they said not to change his food and to up his pred as that might be why his appetite is going, but I KNOW this isn't the reason- but try explaining this to the bloody vet. He's a great vet but Tom's refusal is because he hates the food not because he might be having a slight flair up and that's why he's losing his appetite.

I'm wondering what you guys are all feeding at the moment, and if any of you know if there is any other wet hydrolyzed protein foods for cats that are available in the UK?

Any words of advice would be amazing, since I'm struggling so much that sometimes I wonder if it's even fair to keep him going when we both get so stressed about it all... the poor thing runs away from me half the time and I don't know what to do.... :'(

Hi! I've often thought about you and Tom..sorry things have been so horrible for you both

Only thing I can suggest is a novel protein that's not the horrible z/d, there are no other hydrolyzed foods in the uk that I know of..

Remind me did I send you some kangaroo and did Tom like it, was there any out put problems..have you tried raw with him?

Appetite is reduced here past couple of days..I use to worry and obsess over it, but now I just feed less until it's back..but I understand he needs to have hugs meds in his food. I think I would try another food.. The pred can cause a runny bum, I was very pleased when Riley was off the pred.

I can honestly say the chlorambucil has been a god send for him, I'm positive with out it he would gave wasted away to well nothing. Maybe that's something to consider.

It's only my personal opinion but to find something they are happy to eat and causes not too many issues would be my starting point..

 

Hi! I've often thought about you and Tom..sorry things have been so horrible for you both

Only thing I can suggest is a novel protein that's not the horrible z/d, there are no other hydrolyzed foods in the uk that I know of..

Remind me did I send you some kangaroo and did Tom like it, was there any out put problems..have you tried raw with him?

Appetite is reduced here past couple of days..I use to worry and obsess over it, but now I just feed less until it's back..but I understand he needs to have hugs meds in his food. I think I would try another food.. The pred can cause a runny bum, I was very pleased when Riley was off the pred.

I can honestly say the chlorambucil has been a god send for him, I'm positive with out it he would gave wasted away to well nothing. Maybe that's something to consider.

It's only my personal opinion but to find something they are happy to eat and causes not too many issues would be my starting point..

That's my thinking too... we tried him on reindeer before if you remember Nicola? He ate it- sort of, but didn't love it. I was considering kangaroo, but no idea where to start sourcing it. I know the vet is really anti-me feeding him anything else, but if he doesnt pick up after a week of pred every day, then I'm going back and telling them the food has to change. They didn't want to know about novel protein before. Do you think kangaroo is a good idea? Does Riley like it? That's always a good indicator for me!

The only food I have ever seen him gobble is Nature's Menu, and he can't have that now.

 

That's my thinking too... we tried him on reindeer before if you remember Nicola? He ate it- sort of, but didn't love it. I was considering kangaroo, but no idea where to start sourcing it. I know the vet is really anti-me feeding him anything else, but if he doesnt pick up after a week of pred every day, then I'm going back and telling them the food has to change. They didn't want to know about novel protein before. Do you think kangaroo is a good idea? Does Riley like it? That's always a good indicator for me!

The only food I have ever seen him gobble is Nature's Menu, and he can't have that now.

Riley loves the kangaroo..I get it from http://www.vet-concept.com/Katzenmenue-KAeNGURU.htm?websale8=vet-concept&pi=M210010&ci=001205&Ctx={ver/8/ver}{st/3eb/st}{cmd/0/cmd}{m/websale/m}{s/vet-concept/s}{l/01-AA/l}{mi/001205/mi}{pi/M210010/pi}{fc/x/fc}{p1/21154aae87ef0824eb5c1da852a84d97/p1}{md5/e6618d98bbda3f30be761a4e56573ead/md5}

That did not work try

http://translate.google.co.uk/trans...&u=http://www.vet-concept.com/&sandbox=0&usg=ALkJrhiFeFoC49zMqZMH3uv4DWqkj8oPsQ

I just send them an email with the order and they send it..they also take credit card and PayPal payment now

Hopefully you will get the translated version

I can send you a tin of kangaroo to try if you want??

 

Hey Guys,

Just wanted to give you an update:

We got the food in Sunday and Light (and my other cat) refused to eat it at first other than a couple bites.

We'll I'm no push over and stuck to my guns, even though they pouted all day sunday and monday morning refusing to eat.. and by Monday afternoon I assume they were both so hungry they now eat it. Two full bowls gone in 2 days!

I'll let you know how to ZD turns out. Sorry to hear about your kitty Matti.