Hi, I just strayed onto the Training & Behaviour section of the Dog Forums , what a shock!, I thought the Cat Forums were bitchy!, this is the thread I'm referring to ( Why the blind faith in behaviorists and R+?) sorry I don't seem able to post a link, It took me ages to read because I had to look up a lot of the words!, It seems after all the waffle and b/s the O/P runs a business selling of all things prong collars, I honestly thought these barbaric instruments were illegal, since this revelation has come to light the O/P seems to have disappeared!, the point I want to make is, I am not a dog trainer/behaviourist and what I know about dog training has been learned from owning my own dogs, getting to know them, not trying to rush things, trying (very hard sometimes!) to remain calm and friendly especially with my present dog!, and asking more knowledgeable folk on here for advice and after many (sometimes fraught!) months the training is paying off, I now enjoy the company of a Canine friend who will reliably stop, sit, drop, wait, come greet politely other dogs and people and is a pleasure to be with, I am still working with him on 100% recall especially when excitement kicks in lol, but, we'll get there!, I don't lose my temper with him after all we don't speak the same language, mine is by voice and gestures, his is by facial expressions and body language so we both have to compromise!, don't shout at your dog unnecessarily you'll just confuse him!, you don't need all this crap like electronic collars, e-collars, prong collars etc, just take the time to get to know your dog and persist with the training, ok he didn't get it today he might surprise you tomorrow. wayne.