Welcome to PetForums

Join thousands of other pet owners and pet lovers on the UK's most popular and friendly pet community and discussion forum.

Sign Up

Willows Raw Feeding .. Suggestions welcome..

Discussion in 'Dog Health and Nutrition' started by JenKyzer, Aug 22, 2013.


  1. JenKyzer

    JenKyzer PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2013
    Messages:
    3,738
    Likes Received:
    4,557
    This thread is also for me to keep as like a 'diary' so i can refer back and hopefully more experienced Raw Feeders can jump in with any hints and tips .. seems as the first few days have been more difficult than i thought!

    Day One - Tuesday 20th
    She didn't get fed much monday evening as i knew we we're starting Raw tuesday AM and wanted a 'clean slate' so to speak. Worked out her daily intake is 500g.. which turns out to be quite easy for me at first as the chicken came in 500g packs!

    AM -We waded straight in there and gave her 250g of cut up chicken breast with her bionic biotic on so then it had a familiar smell/taste.. she was wary at first, had a sniff, threw some bits round the kitchen floor.. but then she ate it all within 5mins.. i was very pleased and she seemed to enjoy it :)

    PM - Repeated the above, but she wouldn't touch it. Just sniffed and come away. :huh: . So after 20mins of it on the floor.. i bagged it up.. and we had tea - hoping us eating would get her really ready for anything we fed her - put it back down for her when we'd finished.. still nothing. :nonod: Just sniffing it then coming to sit at our feet.
    So i didn't worry.. just thought she might of been full from the AM feed still and as it was new she was just adjusting to it.. so bagged it back up after half an hour and left it as that.

    Stool wise all normal and no change.

    Day 2 Wednesday 21st -
    AM - Walked first - no stool. Normally she has one every AM walk and every PM walk.. maximum 3 a day but normally 2 a day. Wasn't put off by this as from researching i was expecting less stool's anyway, although it did seem very strange :crazy:
    Back home.. still wouldn't touch the chicken.. she just sniffed and went back to bed whilst i got ready for work.. I left it out when i went to work as OH returns at 1230ish on dinner so check up on her.. she still hadn't touched it by then.. when we both got home at 5ish.. still hadn't been touched.

    PM - So now she hasnt eaten for 34ish hours :confused: so we walked her.. she had a small stool which was normal looking . We got rid of the chicken that had been there all day... tried her with fresh stuff.. still nothing. We then noticed her water ball hadn't been touched since the night before! So it was getting abit silly now.. so i blended the chicken.. still refused.. so then i mixed in 50g of fish4dog salmon mousse with the chicken.. she ate the whole fecking lot!! Proper monkey!! So then i tried a bit more but with less mousse (as she hadn't eaten for so long) but refused it, so i left it down to the fact she'd eaten and was full although she was still lurking in the kitchen and i let her lick the mousse packet clean which she obliged and enjoyed :rolleyes:

    Day 3 - Thursday 22nd
    AM - Walked, no stool. Quite a bit of windy bum though :rolleyes: so i walked extra just to make sure she had every chance she could of to do what she needed, as at two of her 'poo points' (as we call them!) there we're cats so she got slightly distracted :rolleyes:
    Still won't touch the chicken.. I froze a mixture of Chicken&Mousse last night so that's defrosting now so will try that soon as she loves eating the mousse frozen usually so just waiting til it softens slightly then will try again.

    My questions so far ...
    - Should i keep adding mousse then try and 'ween' the mousse out?
    - Should i slightly cook the chicken? If so - how long for? and then do i slightly reduce cooking time each time to 'ween' her off it being cooked?
    - I do have frozen chicken legs/drumsticks .. shall i stay off them until she starts enjoying the meat?
    - Any reason why she would of ate the first meal no problems and enjoy it.. then refuse it again?
    - Have i done anything wrong? :confused: I hope i haven't as i've been looking into this for over a month and felt quite confident :rolleyes:

    Feeling slightly disheartened so far.. i thought she'd love Raw and i wanted her to really enjoy it.. i feel like i'm letting her down slightly as she enjoyed her kibble more :( i feel like i'm forcing something on her that she doesn't enjoy.
     
  2. SixStar

    SixStar Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    12,852
    Likes Received:
    3,763
    Sorry to hear things haven't gone quite as smoothly as you had hoped, but teething problems when first introducing raw are incredibly common, and normally don't last too long before the dog gets the swing of things, so please don't feel disheartened or like you are failing!

    I would personally cut out the mousse, and try flash frying the meat slightly - just for a couple on seconds on each side in a hot dry pan, just to give it that cooked smell, without actually cooking any of the meat. Toying with feeding it frozen, defrosted, partially defrosted, room temp, warm etc is worth experimenting with too - all dogs have different preferences.

    I'd also see how she goes with bone-in meat, so wings or legs - hold the end whilst she chews it initially, to ensure it isn't bolted down.

    Stick with it and be strong - I'm sure she'll soon be loving it, and you'll never look back!
     
  3. JenKyzer

    JenKyzer PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2013
    Messages:
    3,738
    Likes Received:
    4,557
    Thankyou :)
    I'll see how she gets on with part frozen first.. then will try flash fry :)
    Will defrost some legs/wings for tomorrow morning too.
    I hope she does come to enjoy it.. i don't give up easy but the thought of going back to kibble doesn't fill me with joy.. i sincerely hope it doesn't come to that though :eek:
     
  4. Strawberryearth

    Strawberryearth PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,022
    Likes Received:
    26
    I agree with Sixstar, try not to be disheartened with a rocky start. I have to say that Betty took to raw with gusto however too much gusto and wound up throwing up everything she ate after every meal! The consistency was so different from her kibble and she liked it that much that she just bolted it down...so up it came! If she ate it out of a kong though there was no issue.

    Because of this she now won't eat tripe, or anything with tripe in. The stuff she was eating and throwing up was turkey and tripe mince- I think she has associated the tripe with being sick and now won't touch the stuff. I try her on it every now and then, she will have a few sniffs and walk off. If she is really hungry she will eat it, but it comes straight back up.

    Perhaps try putting it into a toy or 2? Or drizzle some salmon oil or something over the top. I add salmon oil anyway but it can be a good way to replace the mousse with something beneficial and keep it interesting. Failing that, try the meat on bones route or an alternative meat, coming back to the chicken once she has settled into the new food type.

    Last thought, what kind of chicken is it? This might sound odd but if it is human chicken she may not want to eat it because it may have been injected with fillers and water to plump it out- if it is from a supermarket fresh/frozen section. She might be able to smell it and find it unnatural. Chicken wings from your butcher will be free from any nasties (hopefully) and pretty cheap, the ones from mine are HUGE! They might be a good place to start if you don't yet have a raw food supplier.
     
  5. SLB

    SLB PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2011
    Messages:
    12,225
    Likes Received:
    3,893
    Can't say I encountered any issues with my lot. Perhaps I have a greedy bunch! :lol:

    I can't say anything different to what has already been said. Just stick with it, she'll not ignore it forever.

    :)
     
  6. JenKyzer

    JenKyzer PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2013
    Messages:
    3,738
    Likes Received:
    4,557
    Thanks guys :)

    Strawberry - I hadn't thought about that.. it was just chicken in a pack from a supermarket :eek: .. She ate the stuff first time round though! :laugh:
    Thankyou for your kind message.. we will be trying a chicken leg/wing tomorrow morning and will be looking into buying some fish oil tonight, we were planning on using something like that anyway once into the full swing of things.
    She used to have raw tripe when we first got her.. may get some of that to ease her back into things.. although i know its classed as an offal .. might make her rejig her memory to the textures etc. Maybe turkey next if chicken still fails tomorrow :confused:

    SLB - I thought Willow would be the same! Thankyou for your post :)

    Ok, so i've just tried part frozen.. she ignored it and went and sat in another room. So thats now in the fridge properly thawing. I then tried flash frying .. all the outside was white.. it smelt yummy and she was wagging her tail at my feet whilst i was doing it.. put it into her bowl and made loads of fuss... and.....
    Nothing!! Just lots of smelling and licking... and i was praising her for it.. she put some in her mouth.. and spat it on the floor :rolleyes: then walked away and actually buggered off upstairs!
    Do i have a dog or a 2yr old child :confused: ?? .. :rolleyes:

    So she still hasn't eaten today :mad2: :sad:
     
  7. SLB

    SLB PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2011
    Messages:
    12,225
    Likes Received:
    3,893
    Drizzle some veg oil on it, if you don't have salmon oil then this is the next best thing. Leave it down for 20 minutes only. No other food or treats until next meal, again 20 minutes. I think someone on here had one go 10 days before giving up and eating. I've had one refuse for 3 days. Try not to worry too much about it. She'll eat when she's hungry.
     
  8. pogo

    pogo PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Messages:
    8,423
    Likes Received:
    688
    Tough love is always my recommendation

    Stop leaving the food out for long periods of time, put her food down for 20 minutes, do not make a fuss just leave her to it, and then anything not eaten take up and put away UNTIL next meal, don't offer it early stick with your meal times and do not give her anything to eat in the mean time.
     
  9. JenKyzer

    JenKyzer PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2013
    Messages:
    3,738
    Likes Received:
    4,557
    Pretty much the same advice, thankyou :) About to do PM meal at 8 so will see how we get on.. i left the food out from AM (although it was more dinner time) and when we got in from walk she mouthed at it but didnt eat. So she is hungry! Will see how we get on :) This time i'll take the food away though. She hasn't had any treats either.. had to stop my clicker-ing :( which is a shame. Going to flash fry again.. but going to roll the blended chicken into balls.. then it looks different.. thought i'd give that a go .. haven't exactly got anything to lose! & we only have olive oil.. will have to get veg oil tomorrow until the salmon oil arrives :)
     
  10. Terry Delgado

    Terry Delgado PetForums Junior

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2013
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    6
    Some Members are not going to like what I say but, Why force the dog to eat something that she does not like?

    I am aware that raw feeding is good, but does not suit every dog. If your dog enjoys her kibble, why not buy a top quality kibble? A dog that eats something because you want it to is not going to get the best out of her food,

    Im not trying to put you down for what you are doing, but the dog is obviously happier with her kibble, there are some very good kibbles made now like Orijen or Simpsons 80/20

    Check out Which Dog food UK for advice on what to feed.
     
  11. JenKyzer

    JenKyzer PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2013
    Messages:
    3,738
    Likes Received:
    4,557
    Hello and thankyou for taking the time to read my post - whether you read it all or not :) & Welcome to PF .

    I am more than aware of which kibble is available to feed my dog;
    SixStar has kindly put together a sticky which i found most useful
    http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-health-nutrition/255727-updated-dry-dog-food-index.html
    So unfortunately i will not be taking your advice and looking at 'which dog food uk' .. but thankyou for your suggestion.

    'The dog' may be happy on kibble.. but for her skin being itchy (possible grain/wheat intolerance which is common in shar-peis) and her overall wellbeing for the future i am giving Raw a good go.

    FYI - she was also very happy on 'Wagg' and she didn't seem to enjoy her Arden Grange for the first day until we ween-ed her off it.. does this mean i should of kept her on wagg as she wasn't happy at first with AG? No, i didn't think so :)

    Raw also offers more variety to her diet.. instead of swapping and changing kibble and buying 5 bags at once and hoping her stomach will settle with them.. Raw is an easier option; chicken, turkey, beef, pork, liver, kidney, bones, fish varieties, tripe, lamb.. (different smells, textures & tastes).. etc .. As a human i would get bored on the same food day in and day out, why should i subject 'the dog' to this?
    If it turns out Raw really is not for her then it will be back to the drawing board but i will be posting another post after this one which will show we have just made progress :)

    I hope your dog/s enjoy whatever diet you have them on and you enjoy being a member of pet forums. I do believe you may upset some members if you jump in feet first to every post so please do becareful and don't force your opinions onto anyone, other may not be as polite as I.
     
  12. JenKyzer

    JenKyzer PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2013
    Messages:
    3,738
    Likes Received:
    4,557
    Ok now that post is out of the way...

    Willow ate tonight :)
    Flash fried balls of chicken.. all white outside but very raw inside.. gobbled up and licked her bowl clean.
    She was unsure at first and spat it out.. ate the first ball bit by bit .. left the raw middle on the floor.. but then ate it! Then ate all the rest as whole balls :)

    Her stool today was very small, very soft (no bone yet to counteract this) and just the one. Still being a miss trumpy bum though :rolleyes: Hopefully this will settle when we get into the swing of things.

    :thumbup:
     
  13. SixStar

    SixStar Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    12,852
    Likes Received:
    3,763
    Good girl Willow - keep it up! :)
     
  14. Terry Delgado

    Terry Delgado PetForums Junior

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2013
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    6
    I am not forcing my opinions on anyone. I was simply offering my advice to you, which I understood was the very purpose of a forum such as this. I have for over twenty years been the owner of a small chain of Pet Shops, and in that time I must have learnt something about dogs and diets. You must of course do what you think is right. I have not come here to upset or be involved in petty arguments, but to discuss and be interested in the topics being discussed.

    I will keep my advice to myself in future.
     
  15. SLB

    SLB PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2011
    Messages:
    12,225
    Likes Received:
    3,893
    Terry - just because I didn't like my Veg soup when I was younger, didn't mean I got out of not eating it ;)

    Whilst yes, it may be that owners are forcing something on their dog that their dog doesn't like; As SB would say - they do not pay for the food..

    All except 2 of mine will eat what they are given, my eldest bitch will pick and choose because she has blunted teeth, so I allow a bit of yogurt or gravy in her dry food when she stops over. (Childhood dog)

    The other one - he's been allowed to be fussy. He was free fed for years until I met my OH and my bitch came to stay over at weekends with me, it then became norm to feed them at 5pm, if not then any food that was put down was eaten straight away by my bitch - so to make things simple, I fed the dogs.
    He ate all his meals then, rather than them being left down all day then thrown away. Waste not, want not. He went 3 days without food because he didn't want the dry food on it's own, he wanted wet food with it. I didn't have any wet food in and I am not about to run out to the shops on a whim because my dog won't eat perfectly good food without it. So he was starved, on his own accord, for 3 days. It did him no harm as he isn't with me full time so he's over weight because he gets free fed at the in laws again and also gets lots of snacks he shouldn't.

    He's recently had cancer and had to have part of his jaw removed. So he is on wet food until he can eat on his own properly and the in laws have just acquired a freezer and they will be feeding raw, they have part fed raw since getting their own little dog who had been fed raw in his previous home.


    It is true, raw feeding does not suit all dogs. But the reasons why it does not suit all dogs is because; it is either not prepared, balanced or fed correctly. The owner has done little research on raw feeding.

    It rarely disagrees with them as a food source or because they dislike it. Some dogs just don't understand raw meat is a meal. Because they are so used to getting it as a biscuit rather than an actual blood filled juicy tender bowl of goodness.

    Of course all 5 of mine would give up a bowl of biscuits for their mince or chunks of meat.
     
  16. Terry Delgado

    Terry Delgado PetForums Junior

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2013
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    6
    A very sensible post and very well put. As I said before, I dont wish to upset anyone, and I was merely putting down my opinion as I saw it. If a Member puts up a post on here shouldnt they expect differing opinions to be posted?

    Members do not have to accept any advice given, nor should they. The advice given was not intended to upset and was given in good faith.

    For the record I do feed raw, but my dog took to it with no problem.
     
  17. JenKyzer

    JenKyzer PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2013
    Messages:
    3,738
    Likes Received:
    4,557
    I hadn't said you had forced your opinions onto me, nor did i mean to imlply that, apologies if thats how it was read. I was just warning you about differing opinions and some may take it the wrong way.
    I thanked you for your suggestion, explained why i wasn't in a position to action your suggestion and wished you well for joining PF .

    I did take your post as being quite blunt 'why am i forcing my dog' and i was expecting suggestions on how to further my raw feeding, not stop it. Which is why my post back may of been slightly off hand. I didn't mean to put you off offering advice, you are more than likely in a better position than i am to offer advice on some things if your packing experience.

    Your post did not upset me & of course i expect different opinions but my post wasnt about whether or not i should feed raw, i have already spent a month or so weighing up that option & decided to take the plunge :)

    Take care.
     
  18. Terry Delgado

    Terry Delgado PetForums Junior

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2013
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    6
    Thank you for this post, and I understand now. Good luck with your feeding.

    :smile5:
     
  19. JenKyzer

    JenKyzer PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2013
    Messages:
    3,738
    Likes Received:
    4,557
    Day 4 - Friday 23rd

    AM - Flash fried chicken balls.. (fried for less time than thursday) .. Ate most of it, left a raw piece from eating the cooked part around it :rolleyes:

    No treats as she didn't finish.

    PM - No cooking/frying involved! :D
    Tried a leg.. she was licking and chewing it with me holding it but then went through the skin, sniffed the raw inside and just sat staring at me.
    So i tried meat again (bit by bit instead of throwing it all in there).. but i got some tuna in water.. i dripped the water onto the meat.. she ate some, licked the meat clean of fishy water and then sat looking up at me again.
    So.. i another bit of chicken with tuna.. she ate the lot.
    Then i blended the leg slightly to break it up with meat and tuna.. she loved crunching through the bone, her tail was going mad and she left a bit.. i think this was more of being full though as she didn't come to me when she left it, she walked away, plus she'd had more than her normal portion anyway cos of the tuna and leg.. so i was pleased (shes a sucker for fish!) . She got some treats - a sea wrap and some sea jerky ;)

    Yesterdays one and only stool.. very small, firm.. also included some bright yellow tennis ball fluff :yikes: .

    Day 5 - Will be getting some 'natures menu frozen' from pets@home i think today.. going to introduce her back into Tripe.. and hopefully get some turkey to move her onto that along with the chicken to see how we go :)
     
  20. JenKyzer

    JenKyzer PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2013
    Messages:
    3,738
    Likes Received:
    4,557
    Day 5 - Saturday 24th

    AM - Some chicken with tuna water on left from last night, finished no problem. Blended leg & tuna.. ate no problem and licked her bowl clean so as a reward she got some tuna on its own and a sea jerky & wrap :) very pleased! She really loves crunching through the bone - OH didn't like the noise at all :laugh:

    Bought some 'Natures menu' tripe, chicken & white fish . Tripe is on the menu for tonight.
    New freezer should be on the cards for next week then we can order from raw2go and stock up :D then the 80-10-10 thing should start to make an appearance fully - as their minces are that anyway.. and i can plan stuff in the freezer then with bones and other offal goodness :)

    Still weird walking past her poo points and nothing! :D
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice