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Why won't worms go away

Discussion in 'Dog Health and Nutrition' started by mollypip, Apr 24, 2019.


  1. mollypip

    mollypip PetForums Senior

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    My border collie pup is now a year and 4 months old. He came from a bad situation and was crawling with worms when we got him.
    For the past year I have been worming him an average of every 6 weeks alternating between drontal and panacur. When I do the drontal worming there is always at least a few large roundworms produced in his poo. I've never seen worms produced with panacur interestingly, so perhaps panacur kills worms differently, or maybe it isn't even working?

    Anyway is this persistent worm problem very abnormal or has anyone ever had this with their dog?
     
  2. AlexPed2393

    AlexPed2393 PetForums VIP

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    Has the dog been to a vet, you may need stronger worming medication
     
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  3. lullabydream

    lullabydream PetForums VIP

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    Wormers work on lifecycles of the worms. Which is why adult dogs are advised to be wormed every 3 months.

    With puppies the regime is monthly till 6 months old not because worm lifecycle is any different. However puppies grow massively in the first few months, and the amount that's being used to treat is increases rapidly. Plus as you have discovered some dogs are born with a worm burden that may have been avoided with ample worming for the mother.

    As a rule both those wormers used are pretty good wormers. Most vets wouldn't worry about those two brands at all.

    I know this sounds silly, and obviously you must be a complete worm expert by now but are you positive what you are seeing are worms? We have had a few here that seem to think they have worms but after talking photos etc it's not.

    They only other thing I can think of is speak to your vet, as already mentioned. A friends puppy had severe worm burden as a puppy but it cleared up really quickly. She used milbemax wormer as that's what the vet suggested; which is from the vets only. However I think with a collie its one that may not be advised.
     
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  4. niamh123

    niamh123 PetForums VIP

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    I would speak to your vet as it seems like you are over worming your dog:)
     
  5. mollypip

    mollypip PetForums Senior

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    I have spoken to my vet and she says to continue doing what I'm doing, she had no other suggestions except to try and get me to use milbemax which I'm too nervous to do as he's a collie, even though I've also read it's OK at the correct dose.

    Lullabydream, unfortunately yes I'm certain they are worms, the visble ones are always 2 to 3 inches long, and there's always 2 to 3 of those after each drontal worming.

    He's still eats bits of dirt and grass, so is he re infecting himself or is this still a case of trying to conquer the eggs of the original worm burden.
    Fenbenzadole says it kills eggs, however drontal doesn't seem to, but I'm also suspicious the panacur (fenbenzadole) isn't working that well.

    Another thing that I can't find much information about, is that dogs are supposed to be able to control worms with their immune system as they get older but to what degree? And how does that work?

    Niamh 123, whilst I don't want to be worming him so much, plenty of people use spot ons monthly (which I consider less safe) like stronghold which is also a wormer. Actually if I was doing that I may believe he's worm free, as the life cycle of roundworm from egg to adult (who then lay thousands of eggs) is 3 to 4 weeks. But I don't like the way spot on treatments work (through spinal fluid absorbtion) so I don't want to use them.

    I'm left just hoping his immune system is a bit slow to develop, and we'll eventually get there, he's otherwise a very healthy happy lad.
    Am interested though if anyone else has battled this problem.

    ETA I did initially last year actually worm him 2 weekly then monthly for awhile but that never cleared it either, as then when I gave a 6 week gap worms were back.
     
  6. lullabydream

    lullabydream PetForums VIP

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    I asked my friend about her dog. She was riddled; the whole litter was the vets had practically the whole litter in. Found on Facebook of all places. I didn't know her then, or knew about the dog but apparently her children wouldn't eat spaghetti for a while and poor girl was sore and bloody and lethargic too. So anaemic. She said she never noticed anything after about 5 months, but it was a long time ago and her dog was a Jack Russell.

    See I rate panacur, but I haven't treated worms with it per se. However am sure it's one used for nursing bitches and puppies pre leaving mum etc.
    The reason I rate it my old dog had colitis and it was an endless battle for nearly a year to find something to get her on the straight and narrow. I just happened to mention to the vet is it worth using panacur giardia routine for worming. She was due anyway. The regime to treat giardia is different. She had antibiotics to treat but didn't make a difference. Honestly she turned the corner after that!

    There is a member that doesn't come her hardly whose collie has that gene everyone is worried about. I can give her nudge to tell you what wormers she uses for her collie. See if she has time to pop on!
     
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  7. MaggieDemi

    MaggieDemi PetForums VIP

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    With cats, you have to de-worm again with Drontal after 2 or 3 weeks to get the eggs that hatch. I'm not sure if it's the same for dogs.
     
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  8. mollypip

    mollypip PetForums Senior

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    Thank you lullabydream, I actually use panacur on my other collie and it works fine, so what I meant to say is I'm not sure it's working so well on Dennis, is it possible he has a hierarchy of more wormer immune worms:)
    It's interesting though mentioning the gardia worming regime because that's over at least 3 days, and I've come across one or two comments on other forums stating that panacur won't do what it's supposed to do in relation to normal worms unless it's given over 3 days. However those comments weren't backed up with anything and it's not what the package instructions state. Perhaps it's worth doing the panacur for a few days as you would for gardia.

    That makes sense Maggie demi, but I did do that in my earlier worming regime but they still came back:(
     
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  9. lullabydream

    lullabydream PetForums VIP

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    Have nudged for you @mollypip but no idea if they will be willing to pop back.

    It must be so frustrating. If the vets say keep doing what you are doing though. They don't see overly concerned. So my guess is they may have seen this before that if there is one or two of these worms that won't die...as you are seeing them every 12 weeks so every 3 months. I guess that's not too bad if you look at it like that. I don't know how often and how easily dogs pick up worms. I know *touch wood* only one of my dogs has had worms. They made me shudder and no idea how he got them. He wasn't much of a pee mail sniffer and just liked to have a bit of a run and walk. Yes I was a bit 'when I remember' on the worming front too.
     
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  10. mollypip

    mollypip PetForums Senior

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    Many thanks! Yes perhaps it's not too bad, we have I suppose got them down to only a few, there was a time last year when there was up to 20 large worms being produced over a few days and that was not a happy time:rolleyes:
    Maybe it is just one or two and their sturdy offspring who just won't die!
    I've had dogs for 20 years and I've never seen a worm produced until Dennis, our cat presented us with a record breaking tapeworm once but that's another story:)
     
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  11. Burrowzig

    Burrowzig PetForums VIP

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    For £48, you could get the DNA test done which would confirm if your dog would be affected by the MDR1 defect which causes the bad reaction to Milbemax and other veterinary medicines. https://www.ahtdnatesting.co.uk/tests/mdr1-ivermectin/
     
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  12. Mum2Heidi

    Mum2Heidi PetForums VIP

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    Wonder if diatomaceous earth would be worth’s try. (Be sure and get human grade).
    You can give it daily and be certain to break the cycle. Totally natural with other health benefits.
    I use it myself for occasional colon cleanse and it’s recommended for worms
     
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  13. MaggieDemi

    MaggieDemi PetForums VIP

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    Is he on a monthly flea preventative? My cats' worms were always caused by fleas.
     
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  14. mollypip

    mollypip PetForums Senior

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    Thanks! I've used diatomaceous earth but unfortunately it didn't seem to make a difference, I give him ground pumpkin seeds in his dinner too which is supposed to help but doesn't , however they keep his poos form!

    Thanks Maggie but it's not tapeworm that's the problem, the tapeworm is caused by fleas alright but not roundworm.
     
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  15. MaggieDemi

    MaggieDemi PetForums VIP

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    Oh. What causes roundworm then?
     
  16. mollypip

    mollypip PetForums Senior

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    Not sure what causes them but the eggs are sniffed up or eaten by dogs from the soil or faeces, also from the pups mother, or by eating an infected bird or rat or the like
     
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