[Sleeping_Lion]

A general question, there are good and bad breeders of all sorts of animals, and just reading a couple of threads recently, I thought I'd ask the question.

I have pedigree dogs and plan to breed, all being well, and have researched for a few years before thinking about going ahead. I go on a number of forums, and regularly see posts by people who have found themselves with a bitch about to whelp, either by chance or very basic planning, posting for advice?? Now, without sounding judgemental, why? When you have a breeding plan, surely you read up first before even getting your bitch in whelp?? Or, and I can fully understand this, do some people think it all happens just according to plan???

Ok, first gripe over with, and on with the next. I own chocolate Labradors, and am fully aware of how 'fashionable' they are, you only have to take a peek at the ex breeding bitches on MTR and the likes, to see how many pass through their doors. Looking through the small ads this week, I've seen standard poodles for as little as £200, and yet people posting on here about cross breeds that they've paid a fortune for, why? I know, people have said, a dog is as much as people are prepared to pay for it, and it's a case of supply and demand. And I'm not saying that either is worth more than the other, just why pay an exorbitant amount of money, for a dog, just because of it's colour or any other attribute; I can understand it from proven working/show parents, but just for a particular colour or other attribute, be that breed driven or not??

I've spent hours over the last week helping someone find a pup from a breeder that I think of as ethical, and have helped locate two litters for them to choose from, and am glad to say they have decided on a pup. I spend a lot of time answering emails from people who 'want a chocolate pup', advising them about the questions they need to be asking, should be asking, to make sure they don't buy from someone out to make a quick buck from mating their two dogs together.

So, from all of that, am I wasting my breath? Do people want to buy ethically, or do they just want the next best thing, and won't be told any other way?

 

[slakey]

I'd say there's a mixture of both.

People who want the next best thing, whether it be a Saint Bernard pup or a pug. And they don't really read into the breed, ask questions look for reputable breeders etc.

And then there are also people who take a lot of time and care into making the right decision for the breed of dog, suited to their needs.

So it's a mixture of both I'd say

 

[Sleeping_Lion]

Okay, without intending to pick on you at all, do you not think, if people buying a pup, only wanted to buy one that had been bred ethically, that it would cut out the whole puppy farming, byb type people? The reason I ask that question is that out of all the people I have replied to, out of three years having a website advertising my dogs, only three, have actually responded asking for help to find a well bred pup.

I know people who have lovely examples of show Labs, unfortunately they live in puppy farming central, Wales, and have to justify why they charge a couple of hundred pounds more than the local puppy farms.

An example of the sort of thing I mean, and thankfully I don't live anywhere near this guy any more, but when I used to take Indie and Tau out, sometimes I'd bump into a guy with a black Lab, nicely bred but no KC papers because the bitch had already had six litters registered. So lovely lines, but who on earth would take more than four max litters out of a Lab?? And this guy wanted to use his dog on my bitch, absolute nutter?? And I've heard of worse examples, which worries me, and makes me very sad at the same time

 

[babycham2002]

I'd say there's a mixture of both.

People who want the next best thing, whether it be a Saint Bernard pup or a pug. And they don't really read into the breed, ask questions look for reputable breeders etc.

And then there are also people who take a lot of time and care into making the right decision for the breed of dog, suited to their needs.

So it's a mixture of both I'd say

Agreed
And I dont think it will ever properly change,
you'd think with the internet it would be easy for people to find out information. But their will always be those that dont bother.
Even before internet had I been looking to buy a pedigree I would have been reading books (still have bought many now)talking to owners etc.
But some would still rather just purchase a dog as if it were a DVD, quickly easily and before anyone else has got it.(indeed sometimes because everyone else has already got it)

One thing that worries me as well, people who should know better just ignoring advice and sometimes common sense just to let their heart rule their head.
One thing, I would love an EBT, I doubt I will ever get one, they are just not the right breed for me. It would not be fair on the dog. I think it is sensible that I realise that and accept that I will always admire them from afar

 

[Sleeping_Lion]

But even more worrying, are those that know, and don't bother, I've come across a number of that type of people, and it really is disheartening.

 

[slakey]

I don't see any problem in pure bred puppyies with good lines etc in them being more expensive then the ones that are dished out for pennies by puppy-farms at all.

If all people wanted to buy a puppy from proper reputable breeders, that have done it for many a year and made sure everything was spot on, so hips/eyes etc tested, and they didn't over breed the females, then yes a lot of puppy farms wouldn't get much of the money and would possibly stop, but unfortunately, that isn't how it is

I do think anyone considering to buy a puppy should ask a lot of questions and read up on a selection of breeds they like and then try a filter down to the one that would suit them best, and then go and find a reputable breeder, even if it does cost more money for the puppy.

 

[Sleeping_Lion]

For anyone that asks me, I always post a link to ex breeding bitches to try and swing them, but I can honestly say, it only works in a small minority of cases.

A nicely bred Labrador will cost you approx £650 - puppy farmers sell them for much less

 

[slakey]

Hmm I only paid £450 for Milo :/ But he has got plenty of Champions in his blood.

 

[Sleeping_Lion]

I'd have to hazard a guess that he's working bred then, because working dogs seem to be much better value for money

 

[Wyndham]

Interesting thread, when we decided to get a dog we spent a while investigation and researching our favoured breed - beagle. We are both on relatively low incomes and didnt have endless amount of money to spend on a dog. After starting to look at breeders online and the small ads it was obvious we could get a pup for £200 tomorrow delivered........ or we would be welcome to come a visit a pup with his mum with price discussed after meeting. Now in my innocence i couldnt see what the big difference was, it was only through comming on here, reading posts about puppy farms etc that i realised what i was looking at, i suppose what im trying to say is, i know it is difficult when ppl encourage the growth of puppy farms by buying the latest must have pup with no thought, but by you experienced breeders comming on here you are catching a few of us "innocents" and educating us into making the right choice.... We got colin for £850.00, he is a perfect member of the family, he has all the correct paper work etc but the most important thing to me and his daddy is that he is a happy and very healthy little boy with a lovely temperament and beautiful little face ( thats a bonus!) lol.

:thumbup:

 

[Sleeping_Lion]

It's reading posts like yours that restores my faith in replying to all the 'have you got any chocolate pups' emails.....

Thank you!

 

[slakey]

I'd have to hazard a guess that he's working bred then, because working dogs seem to be much better value for money

Yup his dad is Tweedshot Maximus
Link: Stud Dogs & Stud Labradors from Blackharn Labradors, Norfolk
*Second Dog down*

Can't remember if his mother competed but his mothers father was Dargdaffin Dynamo.

 

[Acacia86]

I have done tons of research and i am not planning on breeding for years....if ever!! A long time ago i though i would breed with my second dog, but i did all the research and decided to wait for a long time! Not only to be a lot more knowedgable, but try to get some experience with other breeders. And also for my young daughter to be older so she can help clear the mess and socialise the pups :lol: :lol: joking, but seriously i would like her a lot older. (she is nearly 4).

In all honesty i do not know if i could do it, but its certainly not for re-thinking for at least 10 years!!

I hope more people want to buy ethically rather than not :frown: yes its the ''breeders'' fault for breeding their dogs but half of the trouble is the buyers fault. If no-one bought these sort of dogs (badly bred i mean) then the breeders would not breed as it would make nothing for them! I wish everyone would buy ethically.

On the other side of coin, if those sort of breeders didn't breed then the ''opportunistic'' puppy buyer would not be able to just buy a pup as they would a loaf a bread!

I am getting my next dog, a pup this time not a rescue, from the UK. So for me that entails, a flight/boat trip to the UK to meet the breeder first, and another to go and collect the pup and bring him or her back here. So its a lot of money! But i have done my research and found the breeder so now its a waiting game for the next litter of pups. Which will not be for a while.

 

[slakey]

I would like to breed from a dog at some point in my life, but wouldn't be any time soon.

The dog I'd like to breed from would be the Anatolian Shepherd, think there are only 4-5 breeders in the UK so they are fairly rare. I wouldn't breed them for the money, but to increase the population of that particular breed as they are truely gorgeous, but then there is the worry that the wrong people would buy them for the wrong purposes as they are very large and muscular.

Something for me to think over while I wait to actually buy a Anatolian Shepherd, but it won't be for another 5-10years at least, most likely, unless we move into a bigger house and I'm more stable financially. But even so if that happens it'd be 3-4 years before I'd buy one.

 

[Sleeping_Lion]

Both working dog names that I recognise, both FT CH, but that's as much as I know!

 

[Acacia86]

I would like to breed from a dog at some point in my life, but wouldn't be any time soon.

The dog I'd like to breed from would be the Anatolian Shepherd, think there are only 4-5 breeders in the UK so they are fairly rare. I wouldn't breed them for the money, but to increase the population of that particular breed as they are truely gorgeous, but then there is the worry that the wrong people would buy them for the wrong purposes as they are very large and muscular.

Something for me to think over while I wait to actually buy a Anatolian Shepherd, but it won't be for another 5-10years at least, most likely, unless we move into a bigger house and I'm more stable financially. But even so if that happens it'd be 3-4 years before I'd buy one.

I love the Anatolian :thumbup: i looked into getting one as my next dog and did the research but i decided i would like to wait and have more experience first. And i fell so much in love with a couple of other breeds!!

 

[slakey]

The Anatolian's are rather amazing looking dogs, shame there isn't many in the UK.

Also Milo's great grandfather on his dads side is Aughacasla Sam of Drakeshead.

And there's many more names with FT CH, meaning Field Trial Champion, so I'm happy