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What to look for in a breeder!

Discussion in 'Dog Chat' started by candysmum, Mar 25, 2011.


  1. candysmum

    candysmum PetForums VIP

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    I'm looking around, like I do, and came across this on a breeders site.

    Not many times i see it but today i thought i'd post it here so people looking for a breeder. I have edited out my breed and just put (breed) in brackets.

    Look for a breeder who has demonstrated a long-term commitment to the breed. A reputable breeder is usually highly involved in dog activities like showing, obedience, agility, tracking, public education, pet therapy and/or rescue.

    Look for membership in the (breed) Club , a regional specialty club, and/or a local all-breed or obedience club.

    An experienced breeder will act as your mentor and will be there to guide you throughout the life of the dog. A commercial or backyard breeder is through with you as soon as your check clears.

    A reputable breeder will interview you at length to be certain you are a good candidate for ownership of (breed).

    The breeder will point out the good points as well as the bad points of the breed. In fact, breeders frequently emphasize the bad points so there is no doubt the prospective owner is well versed on the negative aspects of (breed) ownership.

    The breeder will explain why she did this particular breeding, that is, what strengths each parent brought to the breeding. The breeder will want to be certain you are willing to make a lifetime commitment to providing care for this puppy. As you talk to the breeder you should get the feeling that this person is very experienced and very knowledgeable.

    Check to see that the sire and dam have all applicable health clearances.

    Ask about the parents' show records. If you are considering buying a show puppy it should come from show parents. Beware of breeders who advertise show quality puppies but do not show dogs. Inquire about other dogs in the pedigree. A reputable breeder will be able to give you chapter and verse about the puppies' parents, grandparents, and even great-grandparents. If you are considering a performance career for your puppy, then look for a breeder whose dogs do well in performance events.

    The puppies should be at least 8 weeks old and weaned from the mother.

    The breeder should allow you 2 - 3 business days to have the puppy examined by a veterinarian of your choice.

    A reputable breeder will require you to take the puppy to a puppy class or basic obedience class or both. The breeder will be able to offer you suggestions about choosing a class or instructor and will give you tips or written instruction about early training.

    Be observant when you go to see the puppies. Are the puppies clean and healthy looking? Are they friendly and inquisitive? Is the dam friendly and nice-looking? If the sire is there, is he friendly and nice-looking? Frequently the sire will not be available. A reputable breeder may use a stud dog in another county or even another country if that is the best match. Is there evidence of the breeder's involvement in shows such as pictures of wins, title certificates from KC, awards, etc. What kind of relationship does the breeder seem to have with the dogs? Are all the dogs kept in clean quarters? How many litters does the breeder have per year? It is unusual for a truly responsible breeder to have more than one or two litters per year.

    A reputable breeder will have a written sales contract that outlines the rights and responsibilities of both parties and and that lists any guarantees. The breeder will require that pet quality puppies be spayed or neutered by a specified date and will not give registration papers until this has been done. A breeder will require that puppies purchased as show quality be shown to their championship (or to some level of success) and have applicable health clearances before breeding. Remember, if a dispute should arise, only those items that are actually in writing will have any effect on KC or a court. Be wary of contracts that require you to breed the dog even if you do not want to do so.

    A reputable breeder will give you a supply of the puppy's food, a four or five generation pedigree, health records, a list of necessary supplies, and written instructions on caring for the puppy. Some breeders include pictures of the litter and pictures of both parents. You will probably get a call every few days for the first couple of weeks to be sure everything is going well. Reputable breeders will encourage you to contact them if you have problems or questions.
     
  2. Phoenix&Charlie'sMum

    Phoenix&Charlie'sMum PetForums VIP

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    Think this should be made into a sticky. ;)
     
  3. 1) Surly a suitable candidate would have done their research on the breed thus cutting out the need for pointing out points and thus proving to be a suitable candidate.

    2) Really? so a perfectly healthy breed standard dog from working lines wont cut the mustard huh? is it just that they are not part of the ol school tie club and will get no votes I wonder.

    3) What nonsense. In over 20yrs of owning dogs,I have never attended puppy classes,I dont need to. Its all about bonding and common sense if you are into dogs.Fine if thats what you want to do but a "requirment"???

    4) Thats very odd considering in one breath they talk about showing where I think dogs have to be entire and secondly, there is a lot of talk about neutering being harmful to a dogs health!

    I think these people are making the assumption anyone wanting a dog is a fool!
     
  4. candysmum

    candysmum PetForums VIP

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    I'm sorry if the post upset you i just thought it might be a little helpful to some people.

    It was also an american site i got this from so maybe they have different things on it.
     
  5. No need to apologise, it takes a lot more than a few words to upset me.

    I also thought my points may be a little help to some people ;)
     
  6. candysmum

    candysmum PetForums VIP

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    Pheww I thought i'd upset you! lol

    Yes they will. And anything else people can think of and add to it! its alway worth making newbies and other members aware of what to look for.
     
  7. Blondie

    Blondie PetForums VIP

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    As a breeder I do some of the above but not all. I do insist my pet pups are neutered by a certain age and not before a certain age, but DO NOT withold KC Reg papers, I dont know of anyone who does this, once buyer has paid money, pup is theirs, breeders have no right to hold onto papers in my eyes. In fact it is a requirement for me as an Accredited Breeder to have the KC Papers ready to go when the pup goes, otherwise I could find myself in trouble with hte KC if the buyer complains!
     
  8. RAINYBOW

    RAINYBOW PetForums VIP

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    What amuses me is all that jumping through hoops people are expected to do to show they are "worthy" of a pup yet when you have a baby they just stitch you up and send you home with it ;)

    In an ideal world all this is great but in reality there are just not enough pups produced in this way to supply the market and not everyone who buys a dog wants to be told what they can/can't do with it, some people just want a family pet and despite being very good potential owners would likely be put off by all of the interogation and may not make the breeders "grade" :rolleyes:.
     
  9. Is a lot of it not BS on a website to make them look "good" to people who no nothing.

    Lets take the neutering thing.A breeder insists on at the right at,lets say 18 months. If the buyer lives miles away how does the breeder enforce it and if they just say no I am not having it done, what happens then? try to take it back at that age,courts involved not to mention someone who may have a bad temper kicking off.
     
  10. RAINYBOW

    RAINYBOW PetForums VIP

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    From what i have seen most breeders contracts wouldn't stand up in a court situation anyway because they are rarely witnessed ;)
     
  11. candysmum

    candysmum PetForums VIP

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    THat is true, they need to be witnessed by a 3rd party that in now invovled in any way with either the breeder or the buyer.

    I think most breeders hope that the contract deters people more than anything else.
     
  12. Devil-Dogz

    Devil-Dogz PetForums VIP

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    ....and most of that I would agree with, advise myself to others and look for in a breeder...
    People often pick up on the contracts, ok sending puppies with them sometimes means little, but sending them out with puppies you are making sure your owners know excatly what is expected.. Its something - which is better than nothing.

    NO responsible breeder would withheld paperwork.. Until the contract has been met. Breeder should trust owner, and stay incontact therefore no need to keep hold of paper work..Adding endorsments which is what we do, has the same affect of keeping paperwork..Just means owners have paper work and can transfer ownership.
     
    #12 Devil-Dogz, Mar 25, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2011
  13. Bijou

    Bijou PetForums VIP

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    We issue puppy contracts but to be honest I think if challenged in law they would not be upheld -they serve a useful purpose though to undermine the fact that we endorse our pups not for breeding until they have passed all ther health tests and that we will take back any dog we have bred

    here's a copy of our contract - it's pretty much a standard one used by most ethical breeders and it's what you should be given when buying a pup


    Gron-De-Mon Belgian Shepherd Dogs
    Puppy Sales Contract

    [​IMG]




    Puppy Sales Contract

    This document is an agreement dated………………..between Yvonne & Trevor Wheeler (Hereinafter called “The Breeders”) and ……………………….(Hereinafter called “The Purchaser(s)”) for the purchase of the Belgian Shepherd Dog puppy named……………….

    Conditions of purchase have been verbally advised to the purchaser and are confirmed as follows:

    (1) The purchaser has been made aware by the breeder, of the hereditary health problems and conditions that exist in the Belgian Shepherd Dog breed and whilst every effort has been made to eliminate or control these conditions, the breeders accept no responsibility should any condition or health problem develop in the future.

    (2) The purchaser agrees that the puppy was, at the time of purchase from the breeders, in sound health and condition and is typical of its breed, both in appearance and attitude.

    (3) The purchaser will not use or attempt to use the puppy for breeding purposes until all relevant health checks or surveys are completed and are deemed satisfactory by the breeder.

    (4) The purchaser is aware that the puppy is not to be used for breeding purposes without the express written permission of the breeder, and is fully aware of any endorsements that appear on K.C. papers at the time of purchase. (Even if the K.C. papers are unavailable at the time of purchase).

    (5) The purchaser is aware that the puppy purchased under this agreement, shall not be re-homed or re-sold without the prior agreement of the breeders and should the situation arise, the breeders reserve the right to take the puppy back, or to participate in agreeing to the suitability of a new home or owner for the puppy.

    This agreement is binding and shall remain in force throughout the duration of the puppy’s life.

    I/we have read and fully understand the contents and conditions of the contract/agreement as stated and agree to abide by them in full.


    Signed……………………………………. ………………………..
    Purchaser(s) Date

    Name and Address:…………………………………………………..

    …………………………………………………..

    …………………………………………………..

    …………………………………………………..

    Telephone: ……………………………………………………



    Signed……………………………………. ………………………..
    Yvonne/Trevor Wheeler (Breeders) Date
    [/I][/B][/I]
     
    #13 Bijou, Mar 26, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2011
  14. pearltheplank

    pearltheplank PetForums VIP

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    Very concise contract, I like it but the bit I highlighted comes in many contracts, however, as the law stands its useless. As soon as the buyer pays the money, the pup is then theirs to do as they please and the breeders have no rights at all, unfortunately.
     
  15. Blondie

    Blondie PetForums VIP

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    Heres a copy of my contract, written also to comply with being an AB with the KC -

    CEEAROTT ROTTWEILERS
    Puppy Sales Agreement

    BETWEEN THE VENDORS – MR M & MRS JV HERBERT


    AND THE PURCHASER – NAMES

    ADDRESS –



    TELEPHONE –
    E-MAIL –


    Registered Name –
    Registration number –
    Colour – Black & Tan
    Sex – Bitch
    Date of Birth – 30 th December 2008
    Sire – Wildhaven's Blue Steel At Ceearott (USA IMP)
    Dam – Rojaneva Dark N Dainty At Ceearott




    IT IS HEREBY AGREED BY BOTH PARTIES THAT THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS WILL BE MET AND THAT NO OTHER WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS ARE EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED.


    1. The puppy described above is sold as…………………………

    2. If the puppy is sold as a PET by the Vendors, it does not qualify as a SHOW/POTENTIAL quality dog at this time. This puppy is sold with restricted breeding registration.

    A SHOW/POTENTIAL dog goes beyond the definition of a Pet/Companion dog. This dog is not guaranteed to become a Champion of Record, but with proper care and training on the part of the Purchaser and/or Handler this dog should be a reasonable contender and do well in the Show Ring.

    3. The Vendor guarantees that this is a pure-bred Rottweiler of the previously mentioned Sire and Dam.

    4. The Purchaser(s) certifies that he/she is not acting as an agent for another individual in the purchase of this dog, and the dog will not be sold, leased or given to any mass-producing kennel (Puppy Farm), business or research establishment.

    5. The dog shall not be sold, given or donated to any person without the Vendor’s prior knowledge and consent.

    6. The Purchaser(s) promises to keep the dog in a proper manner for its health and welfare and will be fed a suitable diet for its age and condition, will receive all necessary veterinary care to maintain its good health.

    7. In the event that the Purchaser(s) being unable to maintain the puppy, the Vendors shall be informed, and the Vendors has prior purchase for a period of time limited to two (2) weeks. The main consideration is the assurance that the dog is being passed to responsible owners.

    8. This puppy has been bred by the Vendors and has been carefully and painstakingly reared. The parents were mated with the aim of breeding good, quality, healthy puppies. The Vendors guarantees this puppy to be free of communicable disease as appears to the eye at the time of sale.

    9. This puppy is sold with KC Rectrictions on. i.e. that the said puppy is not eligible for export pedigree. This means the puppy cannot be sold and exported abroad. The second restriction is that any offspring bred from the said puppy is not eligible for KC Resgistration. These restrictions will never be lifted.

    10. If the said dog is sold as Show Quality and the Purchaser(s) do Show the said dog it must be Hip-Scored at the age of 12 months and the Vendors informed of the Score.

    11. If the Said dog is Sold as a Pet/Companion the Purchaser(s) must have the said dog spayed (Bitch) not before the bitch has had three seasons to allow for full physical development and the said dog (Male) castrated not before the age of 15 months to allow for full physical development and the Vendors informed.

    12. The Purchaser(s) further understands that if there is a failure to keep any part of this contract, or if the puppy is neglected, maltreated, or is failing to receive adequate care, the Purchaser(s) will surrender the puppy to the Vendors immediately and automatically and without financial restitution or compensation.

    13. If the Purchasers move house at any time during the dogs life, they will inform the Vendors.

    14. The Purchaser(s) releases the Vendors – Mr M and Mrs JV Herbert and their estate from any and all liabilities, and/or damages by fault of this dog after the time of sale.


    SIGNED VENDORS…………………………………………………….


    SIGNED PURCHASER(S)……………………………………………..


    DATE……………………………
     
  16. candysmum

    candysmum PetForums VIP

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    I'll find a copy of my contract out (new Laptop so not on here)

    But mine looks long winded to everyone elses! lol
     
  17. Blitz

    Blitz PetForums VIP

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    I wouldnt buy a puppy with all those restrictions, even if they wouldnt actually stand up. It would be my dog and frankly I would do what I liked with it after I had bought it. It would be lovely to know that the breeder was caring and was there for back up and would take the puppy back if there was a problem and it is their prerogative to endorse the registration but apart from that I would get very annoyed at having the law laid down and would walk away and end up buying a pup from the free ads. Which is of course why there are so many pet litters that have no problems finding homes.
     
  18. Bijou

    Bijou PetForums VIP

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    yeah - it's a fine line between being too controlling and trying to protect your pups - if I have a signature to show that puppy buyers have agreed not to breed without satisfactory health tests and they then decide to go ahead anyway of course I would have no way of preventing this - but if a problem arose because they ignored this clause THEIR puppy buyers might well have a case against them !

    I don't separate my pups into show and non show quality - 8 weeks is way too early to really tell in my breed and I've known Champions originally sold as 'pets' - but I do endorse my pups 'Progeny not for registration ' until they have finished growing and I can assess them later - this would not stop them being bred from but DOES stop any resulting pups being KC registered.
     
  19. sid&kira

    sid&kira PetForums VIP

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    I have to agree with this, I dont want to be told 'you HAVE to neuter', you HAVE to go to training classes etc etc.

    these should be my choices, no i wouldnt breed, but i wouldnt want someone to dictate to me what age my dog must have its balls lopped off at.

    one of mine was from the freeads, the other 2 were free! lol
     
  20. What the hell????

    At 8 weeks old you cant tell what they will be like. When I got Kai he looked like a horrible example of the breed yet now hes perfect for showing. Not only that but many breeders use bitch's that are not shown or have slight faults for breeding. Health before looks I say.

    Lets say in a litter of 4 pups 1 is show potential and 3 are not for whatever reason....so the breeder forces the owner to spay/neuter the 3 that are not show potential yet the 1 show potential pup ends up with lets say...a hip score of 23 when the average is 14 or has a eye problem that the other pups are clear from but it doesnt show until adulthood...why should the 3 clear pups not be allowed to mature before spay/nueter?

    Also what???? I would NOT take a pup without the papers. End of.:blink:

    Kai as a pup...
    [​IMG]

    Now...
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    #20 shetlandlover, Mar 26, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 26, 2011
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