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What to do when my pup "resets" after training all week?

Discussion in 'Dog Training and Behaviour' started by DianasMom, Mar 10, 2018.


  1. DianasMom

    DianasMom PetForums Member

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    Hello everyone! So my question today has to do with Diana and the way she likes to "reset" or not listen to commands we have recently trained on. Let's say "stay" for example. We'll work on it, she'll do great progressively getting better, and then she just resets and/or picks and chooses when she wants to do it. She has done this with all of the commands she's been taught. Some commands, like "no tugging" I did without actual treats but allowed her more freedom as her reward. Tugging is still being worked on, we've recently done "Stay". She hasn't reset on that yet. I know for some cases, it has to do with excitement. But most times there isn't any real distraction.
    I stay consistent with teaching, slowly phase out treats. I will take treats out of it and just call them at other times and give her good scratch as the reward. She usually does her reset after I have taken treats out of the situation. I still keep the training going but should I do treats again when she gets like this, or would that just reward the issue? Like she knows if she does this she'll get treats again. Also, for the cases when it's excitement, (goes to daycare and we're waiting on associate), I tell her to sit. She usually doesn't or will pop down for a few seconds and hop back up. What should I do about that? Thanks in advance. You guys are very helpful.
     
  2. Sairy

    Sairy PetForums VIP

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    How old is Diana?

    Are you sure that she knows the commands and can perform them competently?

    With stay, how long are you asking her to stay for and how far away are you moving? Distance and duration are things that need to be built up gradually. If she is breaking her stays then you need to lower the criteria to set her up for success. Personally, I always reward my dog during training with either a treat or a game (or sometimes both). If she knows the commands then you shouldn't need to use the treat as a lure anymore, but could have something in your pocket or little pots of treats throughout the house so that you are in a position to reward her.

    What is it you are asking her to stop tugging on and how have you trained this?
     
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  3. Linda Weasel

    Linda Weasel PetForums Senior

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    I always stick with the treats once I think a response is learned, but phase them out to 'random', that is one treat every two, five, ten right decisions from the dog. A behaviour which isn't rewarded (enough) is extinguished eventually.
    Don't know how much you are training stays, but a general guide is that every time you increase the duration you decrease the distance (or vice versa). It's worth doing very slow and thorough stay training cos a dog who consistently breaks a stay is learning to break, not to stay. If you want an 'obedience ring stay then never call your dog to you from a stay; always return, wait, reward.
    Hope this helps.
     
  4. Twiggy

    Twiggy PetForums VIP

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    Why have you stopped using treats? My dogs, whether they are young puppies or experienced competitive obedience or agility dogs, are always rewarded with what they like best - be it a treat or a ball.
     
  5. Twiggy

    Twiggy PetForums VIP

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    Why wouldn't you call a dog to you from an 'obedience ring stay'? Just interested.......
     
  6. Linda Weasel

    Linda Weasel PetForums Senior

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    I've found that it's worked better to always return to the dog so it's not watching or expecting to be called to you. It removes one possible booboo from the equation so if you twitch or sneeze your dog doesn't misinterpret a 'signal'.
     
  7. Twiggy

    Twiggy PetForums VIP

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    Oh I see although to me 'down' means down and 'sit' means sit until told to do otherwise. Personally I call my dogs and play with them out of every exercise be it sendaway, distance control, retrieve, stays, etc. I call it training rather than testing and my dogs are proofed against twitching, sneezing, jumping around, plus balls and treats being tossed about and all manner of distractions. Just the way I train of course and there are many ways of teaching every exercise.
     
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  8. DianasMom

    DianasMom PetForums Member

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    I'm sorry, what is obedience ring stay? Sorry for coming back so late, I just had midterms the past couple weeks. I've been watching a lot of training videos, especially from Simpawtico. I have done increased distractions, but it's usually by noise or other people around. I haven't tried treats scattered yet. It will definitely be a challenge, but I imagine it might be a little funny. I've been working on adding more fun to our training sessions, so learning is even more fun to her. She already mostly enjoys it, especially when she does good and gets praised for it.
     
  9. DianasMom

    DianasMom PetForums Member

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    She is nearly 9 months now (good God has time flew!). I stay very patient with her, especially with something new. With stay I started at 10 seconds. It took her a little whilwhile since she is still a bit of a velcro dig but we've recently gotten up to 2 minutes. I just learned to stop holding the the treats in my hand and just have them nearby. I did most of this last week at my moms house. I just went to the next room the first few times and set her in different rooms around the house to help her not to generalize it with one room.
    With tugging, I mean tugging on her leash. She is typical great walking with loose leash, but if she sees something like a cat, a bird, a flying bug, her first instinct is to chase it, understandably. I would normally say "no tugging". If she continues, I tighten the lead, basically making her have to walk right beside me. Then I gradually loosen it up again. Other than the "reset" issue, most of her problems come from being too excited to listen.
     
  10. DianasMom

    DianasMom PetForums Member

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    Okay, I'm assuming "obedience ring stay" involves having her come to me? I always go back to her. I didn't know the more you increase time, that you decrease distance. This I didn't do. I increased both together. She is now up to two minutes with staying. Certain things I find easier to phase treats out, like sit, lay down etc. When I'm teaching her something new, I go through what she already knows first, then say "what new command is" and guide her into the position, give her a treat for encouragement. Then I use a command to take her back out of the position and eventually come back around to it. I don't always go through everything during the official learning period. Usually one or two previous commands, then back to the new one. Things like this I find easier to phase out treats. As her response becomes quicker and more fluid, she starts to just get a nice scratch behind the ear. Once it's learned well enough, I call all the commands at random. And if it goes good, she gets treats. If any commands don't go well, I focus back in on them. (If she looks confused). That usually happens with "stand up" , since I barely use that one.
    Other things like "wait" didn't really have treats, she just gets to do whatever it is she's waiting to do. All her commands and phases have something I consider a "treat" and/or praise, just not always an actual treat.
     
  11. DianasMom

    DianasMom PetForums Member

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    She always gets some sort of treat, just not always an actual little treat to eat. And she always gets praise.
     
  12. Sairy

    Sairy PetForums VIP

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    I would recommend using the "engage disengage" game for when she sees something that makes her too excited to listen (see below)

    the-engage-disengage-game.png

    Also, you may find this technique useful when you want to move her away from things, rather than having to keep the lead tight. Most dogs will actually pull more if you tighten the lead as it's their natural reaction so you need to teach them to move with you.



    With stays, if she is doing two minutes inside the house with you in another room then try practising them outside with a shorter duration and you in sight.

    I can't quite work out what you're saying about your use of treats, so you may be doing this already, but even with the commands she knows well I would still give her a treat for them sometimes (a scratch behind the ear is fine if this is something she really likes, but this would not be rewarding enough for some dogs).
     
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  13. StormyThai

    StormyThai Moderator
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    It may help you to stop thinking of her "resetting" (because that is not what is happening) but more than the behaviour hasn't been proofed in all areas.
    When training a new behaviour (or even brushing up on a known behaviour) you want to take 3 things into consideration:-
    • Distance: How far your dog can be from you without breaking the cue.
    • Duration: How long your dog will remain in the cue.
    • Distraction: How well your dog performs the cue with things going on around her.
    Only increase one of the D's at a time, so if you are working on duration then reduce the distance for a short time.
    You want to look for around 80% success before increasing any of the D's
    Lower the distraction and you will find it easier to increase duration and distance.
    When you increase the distraction then increase you rate of reward/reinforcement
    Keep the training sessions short (5-10mins several times a day is fine) and always end on a positive note.

    At 9 months old she will be in her teenage years so personally I wouldn't be fazing out rewards yet because the behaviours are not solid.
     
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  14. Twiggy

    Twiggy PetForums VIP

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    At competitive obedience shows here in the UK there is a separate stay ring which may or may not be split into dogs one side and bitches the other. All classes, from Pre-Beginners to Championship C are required to complete a set of stays which progressively becomes harder the higher the class. They start with a 1 minute sit and a 2 minute down off the lead with the handler in sight and progress to a 2 minute sit and a 10 minute down with the handler out of sight. There can be up to 60 dogs in a class and there is a stay steward for every 6 dogs plus the chief stay steward, armed with a stop watch, and the judge in the stay ring. The dogs must be well proofed to distractions as there are lots of exciting things going on in the other rings like sendaways and retrieve. There are also lots of handlers warming their dogs up outside of the rings with tuggies, balls and treats.
     
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  15. DianasMom

    DianasMom PetForums Member

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    Thank you! I've been trying find something detailed for the longest. I search things like "my dog gets too excited to listen" or "my dog gets distracted easily" and I got a lot of general things to try. It just said things like, put a treat on her nose or throw a toy in the opposite direction but didn't clarify the specific point at which I do whatever method.
    And yes, I need to do outside training, not just with stay, but period. I'll train her all over the house but always forget outside. It has the most perfect everyday distractions, too. And behind the ear and around her neck are a couple of her favorite places to be scratched. She will even move her head around so scratch her entire neck. :Hilarious If I ever teach roll over or just for her to roll on her back, belly rubs will be perfect. She LOVES belly rubs lol
     
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  16. DianasMom

    DianasMom PetForums Member

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    See, I figured it just wasn't learned as second nature, but it just the way it hapens that throws me off. Because training did not stop or change. She'll just be making great progress then acts like she never learned it. Or doesn't feel like it. :rolleyes: It's times like this I wish I spoke dog. But anyway, this is very helpful since I never knew of a set balance. I just would increase everything together. And didn't use higher value incentives with increased distraction. I'd just to get her eyes to follow my finger so we'd end up looking eye to eye to have her attention. So, now I'll have a good formula to use.
    But thankfully she went through her teen phase with rebellion and attitude problems back around 6 months old. I know she's still growing in her adolescence, but I could definitely tell when she was going through those mood swings. She started to protest everything. If I said "no" to something, cue the barking and growling. And if she was really upset, she'd run around trying to nip everyone's fingers. Thank God it only lasted about a month. She went from sweet and shy, to angry and rebellious, then back to sweet and being very friendly. :Hilarious It's funny now, but she was driving me insane a few months ago.
     
  17. DianasMom

    DianasMom PetForums Member

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    Oh okay, now I understand. Thanks.
     
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