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What does "control" mean to you?

Discussion in 'Dog Chat' started by O2.0, May 3, 2021.


  1. kimthecat

    kimthecat PetForums VIP

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    My two are similar though we don't have possums :D I do feel that in a way they are out of control because it only stops when the squirrels up a tree , what if they chased a rabbit or deer and kept going , what if they cornered a cat or other furry and they attacked it ,( not that they would )
     
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  2. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

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    Penny doesn't chase and kept going. None of mine have.
    A lot of dogs do though and I've often thought about why that is.

    I think part of it is that former ferals and dogs who have had to survive on their own, learn quickly not to expend unnecessary energy. Once the prey is clearly getting away, they end the chase. Because Penny is young, it's possible she might unlearn this, but I'm careful with prey she can catch - like possums and put an end to those encounters quickly.

    I also think there is something about a dog having multiple safe chase opportunities vs. never getting to chase and suddenly finding themselves able to.
    It's weird, because in most situations I'd say don't ever allow the dog to practice the unwanted behavior. But chasing is such a fundamental drive for most dogs, and even chasing a ball or a toy is 'practicing' the behavior, it's not something you can completely eliminate.

    To that end, I do think it's helpful for dogs to get to practice parts of the chase sequence, or get experience chasing safe things in safe ways so they can learn some sense about it.

    Which brings me back to control.
    Is your dog's control fully dependent on you, or do they have any self-control?
     
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  3. Burrowzig

    Burrowzig PetForums VIP

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    I think mine do. A lot of the training I do is about instilling self-control, so in a way I've taught them to control themselves, and now they do it by themselves.
    A few weeks back, when both dogs were lazing out in the garden, the duck that had been nesting in the flower border flew in and landed a couple of feet from Fly, about 8 feet from Flossie. Neither tried to attack duck, and Fly got up to move away. Duck went for her and pecked her in the back legs (no harm done). No retaliation, she just came and sat near me. I was at the garden table, doing a crossword, not paying them any attention.
    They had got used to duck being there, and showed some curiosity at first, then not bothered.
     
  4. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

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    That's impressive. There's no way Bates would not have retaliated if he'd been pecked!
    Penny would probably run - away :Hilarious
    Strong sense of self preservation that one! :D
     
  5. Magyarmum

    Magyarmum PetForums VIP

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    Is your dog's control fully dependent on you, or do they have any self-control?

    Gwylim more so than Grisha. although he's getting better at making decisions for himself. On Wednesday when he was on a 5 metre line, I really thought he'd take full advantage of it. I was quite surprised, that apart from once when he went the full length of the line, he spent the rest of the time next to or just in front of Gabor.

    Most evenings I'll make a cup of tea and eat a couple of biscuits which I usually put down on the coffee table next to my armchair. Grisha will rest his chin on the table with his nose a millimetre away from the biscuits. For a dog that loves his food and is on a diet at present I have to give him credit for great self control and never touching them.

    Gwylim makes me laugh, because he knows when he's with me he's not allowed to bark. I can tell though from his body language that he dying to bark but is trying very hard not to. Instead of barking you'll hear these strangulated gurgling noises as he tries to stifle the bark that's trying to get out. I shouldn't laugh at him really but he's so funny bless him.
     
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  6. Boxer123

    Boxer123 PetForums VIP

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    The boxer boys can be a menace to society in public but in the house are good and would never steal food. Loki did as a Abu but grew out of it. I left a bowl of popcorn by accident on the footstool and walked them separate neither touched it.
     
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  7. Magyarmum

    Magyarmum PetForums VIP

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    Gwylim only once has stolen food and that was whilst I was paying for petrol and had left half a sandwich I'd bought on the dashboard. In mitigation it was late afternoon and I know he must have been hungry. Actually neither of them is really interested in eating human food. Offer them a bit of pizza and they'll turn their noses up and refuse it. The only things they seem to like are a bit of toast or biscuit and peanuts which is definitely their favourite.
     
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  8. Animal Freak

    Animal Freak PetForums Member

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    Stella's self control is pretty fantastic considering she struggles with over arousal and had very little training for the first year of her life. I've realized since getting Osiris that there are a lot of things I didn't teach Stella (or didn't realize I taught her at least). She's never stolen food though she's gotten scraps since she was a pup and wasn't really taught manners. I could leave a plate of food on the couch and walk away without saying anything. The cats are the ones you have to watch for! I've left a container some of her food on the floor during training sessions to go grab something. Didn't even think about it, just walked off. Came back to find her sitting there patiently and a cat eating her food. I'd say she has a decent prey drive, but basically taught herself to ignore squirrels on walks.

    Now Osiris is a different matter. Seems like every time I think he's getting better about something he proves me wrong. His control is mostly dependent on me at this point especially when it comes to eating things. He's still terrible (though slightly better) about eating things he shouldn't. I have to give him some credit though. He's usually pretty calm in the house, settles well, and he does well off leash except he finds things to eat so he's pretty much stuck on a long line with a muzzle on if I'm not actively engaging with him. But he always seemed to know how far I was comfortable with him going when I did let him off and even though he doesn't always give me obvious check ins, he must pay more attention that he lets on because if I walk in a different direction, he comes running.
     
  9. Siskin

    Siskin Look into my eyes....

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    Isla has only stolen food once and that was when she was about 4 months old.
    I made myself a crab roll, cut it in half and went out onto the deck putting it on a table which was quite low. In the seconds it took me to sit on my seat Isla had grabbed half of the roll and ran off with it to gobble it down. My half was very nice so I can’t say I blame her and she does love fishy things. She’s never taken anything else.
     
  10. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

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    Blasphemy!!
    Bates would sell his soul for pizza crust!

    Penny is a hopeless scavenger. She has developed some manners around food that we are actively eating, but anything else is fair game. If she weren't so low to the ground she would be a real menace and I might have to consider training her better. As it is, she just keeps the kitchen floor cleaner than it's ever been :D
     
  11. Siskin

    Siskin Look into my eyes....

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    That was one thing I noticed in the 6 months we didn’t have a dog in the house was that the carpets were fur free, but the kitchen floor had a lot of crumbs. Other way round now.
    It’s quite embarrassing if we take Isla to someone else’s house as she heads straight for the kitchen and licks the floor clean
     
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  12. Jobeth

    Jobeth PetForums VIP

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    I went to a group training class for my oldest dog and he had a German Shepherd that was used on film sets. He showed us how his dog could stay to heel no matter which direction/speed. The trainer wasn’t interested in small fluffy dogs so it was something I trained mine to do. He will stay to heel until he is released and will recall from anything. I still have his letter from CBBC as he got through to the final of ‘Who let the dogs out’ when he was only a puppy and my niece was the handler. Then I got a Yorkie... She has been a lot harder to train.
     
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  13. Nonnie

    Nonnie PetForums VIP

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    I know its something i dont have off lead :D

    Neds pretty good on the whole, but his recall is appalling and his prey drive through the roof. Even if there is nothing about he still ignores me, even if im standing 4 foot away. Wont recall in the house or garden, so no hope in the big wide world.

    I dont feel too much like a failure these days though - ive have three one to one trainers now, and none of them could get him to engage reliably. He is so independent, and also highly suspicious; you absolutely can not trick, lure, or lie to him.
     
  14. Teddy-dog

    Teddy-dog PetForums VIP

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    Oh you all and your well trained dogs around food! Teddy is good around food when we’re eating. Or if we’re in the room
    And we put a plate down or something. But anything else is fair game to him :Hilarious
    If there’s something within reach on the side he’ll nab it (if it’s tasty). If we leave the room I’m pretty certain a plate would be cleared. He did used to empty the bins and counter surf which we’ve managed to curb but he still puts his front paws up :Hilarious but the bins are safe! Mostly...
     
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  15. hamsterlover123

    hamsterlover123 PetForums Member

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    hmm. My dog has no control lol! He barks a lot but I can stop him if he eats too fast or if I say "drop it" he drops it but he is a small dog so it is not a big deal if he pulls on the leash or whatever.
     
  16. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

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    Do I remember right that Ned came from less than stellar circumstances?
    Our Lunar was such a hard nut to crack for rewards too. He was so suspicious of any offered food and it took me well over a year to get him to even take food from my hand if we were outside. Luring was also a complete no-go because of his past. Instead I taught him to follow my hand without food. He never did get to the same level as far as understanding the concept of training.
    Penny was incredibly suspicious of luring too which makes perfect sense given she must have been lured trying to get caught on enough occasions that she highly distrusts it. She rocks luring now, but same as Lunar I had to teach her to follow my empty hand first. But she still has moments of "nope, something's not right" and she just stops and stares at you waiting for something bad to happen :(

    Will Ned follow your finger if you point out dropped food on the floor?

    Oh you just made my eyeball twitch! :p
    As a fairly new small dog owner who is enjoying making sure that she will be trained to the same standard as my big dogs - and she very much enjoys it too, the whole idea that small dogs don't need to be trained flies all over me! :Bag
     
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  17. Nonnie

    Nonnie PetForums VIP

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    He's a rescue but i got him as a pup. A bit bullied by other dogs, but i cant say they were horrible circumstances. Hes just a dick naturally.

    Im trying to think of the best way to explain Ned. He is very much a dog that needs to see the goods before he is willing to contemplate compliance. He also figures things out VERY quickly.

    For instance, if you try to entice him to you, he will automatically assume you want to do something to him (tooth brushing, ear cream, nail clipping etc) as this has occurred in the past, and there will be no way he will come to you willingly. Even one 'incident' is enough for him to remember and build an association. If i want to, say, brush his teeth, i have to walk in the room show him the brush, say 'tooth brushing time' and have the reward for afterwards on show. He will absolutely allow me to do things under these circumstances as ive been open and honest about my intentions.

    Ive tried to do that hunting thing where you encourage them to sniff things you point out. Ned fell for it twice - if there is nothing for him to kill there he is not a happy bunny and he becomes mistrustful. Ive tried it a few times since and he will just stand and stare at me and will not come closer.

    He will absolutely look at food i point out, but there absolutely HAS to be something there in order to keep his trust. He disengages in a split second too. One moment he can appear all ramped up and will be playing nicely, then he'll just stop suddenly and wander off.

    The one thing every trainer picked up on is his intelligence, and i do wonder if that is part of the 'problem'. He is very much a dog that likes to work things out on his own and without human interference.
     
  18. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

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    I've known enough dogs like this that I've learned to never call a dog to come so I can *do* things to him. If I need to remove a tick, clip nails, clean eye boogers, etc., I go to the dog.

    The way you describe him makes him sound really fun actually :) I like the super smart ones.

    Have you ever read this article?
    There's stuff in there that has Ned written all over it.
    https://lifeasahuman.com/2011/pets/some-dogs-wont-work-for-food/
     
  19. Boxer123

    Boxer123 PetForums VIP

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    Gosh loki does this. For example refusing to come in from the garden I have to mix up what I do or he simply remembers ‘she gave me ham to get me in last time’ He does it outside the house as well.
     
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  20. Burrowzig

    Burrowzig PetForums VIP

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    My dogs have never stolen/eaten MY food - though Fly once deftly slid the bacon out of a roll someone had put down to give me her agility running ticket. And when Kite was young, she took an entire loaf of bread off the kitchen surface and took it into her crate, from where I recovered it, totally unharmed and with the plastic bag entire, later.
     
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