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What does "control" mean to you?

Discussion in 'Dog Chat' started by O2.0, May 3, 2021.


  1. Onegin

    Onegin PetForums Newbie

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    Not sure if I agree. I have a hunting dog and have trained her to heel when I walk in the woods. If I let her sniff around, she catches one whiff of a deer and bounds off. It's her instinct and she does return to me as soon as she loses the scent, but she is good in chasing and has been away for half an hour at times when she was young (fortunately in fenched off private area, although I felt horrendous for the deer). I know when she does that, she is blind and deaf to all but the scent. If the deer jumped the fence and crossed the highway, she would follow without a second glance.
    As someone mentioned above, the moment when I can no longer keep my dog safe is definitely when I consider her out of control. It's fine if give scents chase a little, but not if she goes out of my sight and runs headfirst into dangerous situations and at that moment will not respond to recall.

    When she heels I have her under control. However, when we are in an area without game scents, she doesn't need to heel as she would have no reason to not listen to recall or plunge into dangerous places. Hence in those circumstances it is fine is she runs off a little distance to play around. I would still count her as being under control.
     
  2. Teddy-dog

    Teddy-dog PetForums VIP

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    I think we’re actually in agreement? If a dog does a small chase, not going out of sight, just running to a tree etc and then comes straight back I wouldn’t count that as out of control. But if a dog bogs off and doesn’t come back for ages, goes out of sight for a long time so could get itself in difficult situations (as my dog would do), I count that as out of control.
     
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  3. Teddy-dog

    Teddy-dog PetForums VIP

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    Yep that’s what Ted is like if he gets chance to go after a squirrel. Like I don’t even exist. I could stand right next to him or wave in his face and he’d still be looking up a tree!
    though he has got tons better on the longline over the past few months. He used to be awful and I’d hate walking him in the woods, especially in winter, but he has much more focus now. I still don’t know if I’d trust him off though!
     
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  4. Sarah H

    Sarah H Grand Empress of the Universe

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    I think we are all thinking around the same lines. Dogs having a little hunt isn't what I'd call out of control, but bogging off after something is. You can almost pin point the moment their ears turn off with some dogs, *cough*Fly*cough* and with these dogs I'd say your level of control has to be tougher so to speak, as when they go out of control they are really out of control! So if Fly is starting to scent I need to get him back under close control quickly, or I know I've lost him (not literally, but in terms of focus and interest in me). Whereas Puzzle could start legging it across a field and I could call him and he'd come running back straight away. So although the 2 dogs may be doing exactly the same behaviour one would be under control and the other not.
     
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  5. Torin.

    Torin. PetForums VIP

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    And some dogs *cough* Cad *cough* could be doing exactly the same behaviour on different days, or different walks, or at different points on the same bloody walk and be under control or not depending information that humans can only pick up 2nd hand (thinking bogging off after the merest traces of scent only a dog's nose can pick up).

    [no idea why quoting you has had the text size go weird]
     
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  6. Cleo38

    Cleo38 PetForums VIP

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    For me "under control" is being able to cue my dog & have him respond. Chasing IMO is not under control unless you can recall the dog, if s/he comes back when they have decided the chase is over then that is not under control.

    Archer is the sort of dog that is under control as I have worked hard on this & with a certain amount of luck (as he is very handler focussed). Kato is literally the complete opposite (atm) as he is very aware of the environment so I am working hard on getting him to look but not respond to fleeing wildlife. So far he has been great but he is very much a work in progress & as a young dog (7mths) I would definitely not consider him "under control" as yet
     
    #26 Cleo38, May 3, 2021
    Last edited: May 4, 2021
  7. Jason25

    Jason25 PetForums VIP

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    Personally for me, being under full control is being on a leash because if they are past the point of listening you can physically move them on when on the leash, being off leash is not under full control, I agree they can be to a certain point in the right environment but not completely.
     
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  8. Magyarmum

    Magyarmum PetForums VIP

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    I'm lucky where I live because apart from the 3 Viszla and the JRT who live down the lane, we rarely see other dogs. If I take the boys to the city rather than the local town, any dog we meet will be on a lead. It's only in the neighbouring villages you'll find semi feral, out of control dogs but there are so many other nice places to walk, we only drive through them.

    Fortunately neither of mine have much prey drive and what they have is spent sniffing the ground for small furry creatures. On the couple of occasions they have escaped from the garden they've never gone far because they're too busy pottering around, sniffing.every blade of grass. Gwylim, being a mummy's boy has soon returned home and being a good boy will usually take me to wherever Grisha is.

    For me being in control is to be able to walk the boys without feeling that I HAVE to be in control for whatever reasons. Last week's walk through the city centre was a walk like that. We were all relaxed and thoroughly enjoyed ourselves.

    Do I feel I have good control over my dogs? 99.0% of the time the answer is yes because that's the way I've tried to organise it. The dogs have a large piece of enclosed land that I can safely leave them in without worrying about what they're doing. I can take them into pet friendly shops, or for a coffee knowing they'll behave themselves. They're happy to wait in the car for a couple of hours whilst I shop or when it gets too hot spend the day at home alone. Gwylim has stayed in hotels but sadly plans to go on holiday with both dogs had to be cancelled. I've tried for all our sakes to give the boys as wide a range of experiences as possible.

    Times when they've been out of control? Only once in all his 7 years with Gwylim, bless him. When he positively hated the new Schnauzer I adopted and attacked the poor little boy not once but several times. I solved that problem quickly by sending the object of his hatred back to the breeder. Grisha hates bicycles and motorbike when he's on his own territory which includes the car. Driving through traffic he goes ballistic when he sees one. I have to admit, I put on my cloth ears and ignore him, because driving safely is far more important than a barking dog on the back seat.

    .
     
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  9. Arny

    Arny PetForums VIP

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    If my dog didn’t come back when called no matter the circumstance I wouldn’t feel they were under control but I wouldn’t necessarily feel it’s a bad thing either, like you say in a wide open space with no one around etc and likely you’ve not even bothered calling because you know they won’t respond.

    When Tilly goes off on one at the occasional other dog, even though she’s on a lead, I don’t really feel she’s under control.
     
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  10. Burrowzig

    Burrowzig PetForums VIP

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    I've worked a lot at control with my dogs, particularly Fly who is naturally impulsive, and they are very responsive. I have been thinking recently that maybe it's gone a bit too far, they might be too robotic, as they don't seem to do anything much under their own initiatives but look to me to entertain them by giving them tasks to do - and being collie types that's what they live for. Recall is totally reliable, I can call them off chasing balls or squirrels, and to get them to have a decent run I pretend there's a rabbit for them to chase. They wait for other people or bikes to pass without having to be told on narrow paths. They have no interest in other dogs; well sometimes a quick sniff but they actively avoid bouncy ones.
     
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  11. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

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    Hm...

    I agree that if a dog runs off to chase something and recalls when he/she feels like it it's not really under control.
    But at the same time, if Penny runs 20 feet away to chase a squirrel up a tree and comes right back when the squirrel hits the tree, is that out of control?

    Or like this morning when she cornered yet another possum but stood there and let me pick her up and carry her away, is that out of control?
    No, I couldn't call her away from the possum - and that is something I will shoot for in training, but walking up to her and grabbing her was no issue.
    I put her down in another part of the yard and resumed out walk (off leash) and she came with no problem.

    I don't mean the legal definition of in and out of control, just opinions.

    I don't like that I can't call her off, but I also think we'll get there eventually. But I don't feel like she's so out of control that I need to leash her for morning potty breaks.
    But I wonder if my attitude is too relaxed from other POVs - Just curious really :)
     
  12. Linda Weasel

    Linda Weasel PetForums VIP

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    Tod is under control most of the time, and when he isn’t it’s not that dire.

    He’ll chase a squirrel, but the game is that he chases up a tree then comes back to me. Same with Rabbits; chases it as far as a burrow then (with him not having the same wiring as a terrier) he thinks it’s vapourised or been beamed up somewhere, so he comes back.

    I don’t mind this, it gives him some extra excitement on a walk but I guess some people couldn’t live with it.
     
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  13. Jason25

    Jason25 PetForums VIP

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    I think it depends on where you are. There’s a forest near me that is surrounded by dual carriageways, if you can’t recall your dog in the middle of a chase, I don’t think you are in control in that environment, all it takes is the prey it’s chasing to run out into the road and the dog could be killed by a car doing 70. But if you are on land that is in a quiet area there is far less risk, so I suppose you feel more in control?

    There’s a few people around here who think they so in control they walk their dogs off leash next to the road, drives me mad. It’s a dog not a machine, all it can take is a car to go past, have a blow out/ something to spook the dog, only for it to run off and possibly cause an accident or get hurt.

    I think really it’s more about assessing the situation first, I’d have no problem with daisy having a chase in a really quiet area, but would not want her chasing where there’s busy roads etc close by.

    Just my thoughts anyway lol.
     
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  14. Magyarmum

    Magyarmum PetForums VIP

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    On a walk, both M'boi and Georgina my Peigirls would disappear out of sight. Providing I knew which direction they'd gone, I never worried about either of them because I was confident that neither of them would do anything stupid. They were such reliable dogs I could count almost to second when they'd return. I never considered them to be out of control because it was something I allowed them to do

    Chloe on the other hand I wouldn't have trusted as far as I could throw her.. Once she was free she'd be off leaving her brains and her ears behind and doing things guaranteed to give you a heart attack. For her it was a wonderful game of outwitting her human for as long as possible. I used to send M'boi after her because if she saw M'boi sniffing the grass or a lamppost she'd also stop and sniff giving me a chance to catch her. Most definitely out of control :rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
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  15. Boxer123

    Boxer123 PetForums VIP

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    I agree with @Jason25 it sounds like you have a lot of space @O2.0 my biggest worry when Sox did take off was that he would end up in a road. I feel happier with him on a long line in the woods.
     
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  16. Burrowzig

    Burrowzig PetForums VIP

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    Absolutely - it's something I never do.
    I once saw a guy with a border collie, bouncing a ball for it (dog off lead) along the side of the A6 ( a major trunk road). OK, not a fast traffic area - 30mph limit just coming out of town, but if the ball had bounced wrong on just one of the uneven paving slabs, and gone into the road, it could have been the end of that dog (and trauma for the driver). I'm well placed in that there are loads of safe places for off-lead walking near where I live; I chose the house because of it.
     
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  17. Cleo38

    Cleo38 PetForums VIP

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    I think it will differ amongst people & for their dogs. With Toby he used to love to flush a pheasant, not chase it but just get them in the air & so they crowed. Not that he was the most obedience dog (he wasn't at all!) but he didn't really chase after them so I knew he was fine & allowed him to do it. With Roxy there was no way she was doing that, even chasing something for a few yards was a no-no.
     
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  18. Linda Weasel

    Linda Weasel PetForums VIP

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    We have one ‘no chasing’ area because of proximity to a road; Tod goes on lead if we walk that bit because he would chase into the road if that’s how it went.

    I guess it’s about knowing your surroundings.
     
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  19. ECT

    ECT PetForums Member

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    Thea is still a baby so no, I don't feel I have control over her. That is why she is never off lead. Her recall is not anywhere near good enough for that to even be attempted but I don't think that means that she is out of control. She is learning, the world is more interesting than me so I expect her to ignore me more often than not, that's what training is for.

    Thea would be completely out of control if I gave her freedom, judging by how she was with my sister's dog at the weekend. She has no fear, no sense that her bouncing around and sticking her paws in another dog's face is a bit rude! But, as a responsible owner, she will be kept on her leash until she learns some manners!
     
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  20. Moobli

    Moobli PetForums VIP

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    To me under control comes down to the dog responding to the owner's cues no matter the situation or circumstance. My dogs are under control in most situations, but of course they aren't robots and have occasionally not recalled from a deer or whatever. However, Tay my younger dog is a work in progress where wildlife is concerned so she is under control as she is always on a long line when there's a chance she might take off. She is livestock broken, but I would still leash her when we are walking through other people's stock or where there are sheep etc nearby, as that is a common courtesy and a visual cue to the farmer that my dog isn't going to cause the stock any trouble.
     
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