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what a load of crap!!!!!!

Discussion in 'Cat Breeding' started by shortbackandsides, Jul 14, 2009.


  1. shortbackandsides

    shortbackandsides PetForums VIP

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  2. kozykatz

    kozykatz PetForums VIP

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    I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to have a solid Ragdoll - if both parents were heterozygous for white spotting (which would be very unusual), you'd expect the occasional solid kitten. I suppose most people wouldn't actually want to breed from one though.


     
  3. Saikou

    Saikou PetForums VIP

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  4. mypets

    mypets PetForums Senior

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    They are soooo cute tho...gorgeous colours...
     
  5. Angeli

    Angeli PetForums Senior

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    I gather that solid Ragdolls dont conform to the breed standard then?

    Why on earth do people breed them - I cant see the point in it other than its for the money and not to better the breed.

    Im a bit of a purist when it comes to the breeding of pedigrees - and something Im proud of. There are many good pedigree lines out there being ruined by people who dont have a clue what they're doing.
     
  6. Abooksigun

    Abooksigun PetForums VIP

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    Hear hear Angeli! The most intelligent thought I have heard in a longtime, well said you!;)
     
  7. kozykatz

    kozykatz PetForums VIP

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    I suppose if a solid Ragdoll was of excellent type then it might well be useful for breeding, but if using a solid is not permitted within the registration policy then that's a different matter.




     
  8. Saikou

    Saikou PetForums VIP

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    Would it matter if a non pointed cat wasn't permitted within the breed standard as it stood. With most of these things, just because one registry doesn't accept them another does. Surely thats how lots of variations of established breeds occurred - Siamese - Balinese, Oriental SH - Oriental Longhair etc. As long as the type is correct and the cat is healthy, what is the problem in taking something that already exists in a breed and utilising it. Its not the same as crossing two existing breeds and making another new breed.

    For those breeds that have had outcrosses in their history and have a few recessives that carry on down the lines, surely 'better out than in' is the best policy. Make those a separate 'sub breed', weedle out the carriers, and keep each sub breed separate with their own registration policies. Purists stick to the original colour/pattern/coat length, those that like the alternatives concentrate on those and never the twain shall meet.
     
    #8 Saikou, Jul 14, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2009
  9. Angeli

    Angeli PetForums Senior

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    But dont we have enough variations in colours and patterns without creating even more? Would it not be better to try and perfect what we already have and know?

    If some governing bodies accept these new colours then that's fair enough, it's the mixing and mashing of everything and anything just for the sake of experimentation with no real purpose that gets me.

    It takes years of well thought about selective breeding to produce the finest pedigree lines that we see out on the show bench but only one breeding season to ruin it all. While its become acceptable to breed for new colours and patterns in a lot of breeds in many cases it's the well bred classic pedigree cats that are still winning at the shows.
     
  10. Taylorbaby

    Taylorbaby PetForums VIP

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    arent they just ragamuffins?
     
  11. lizward

    lizward PetForums VIP

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    I know you are by no means the only one to think like this, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If your cats are not involved then your lines cannot possibly be ruined. Even if a cat you bred is used to produce something quite different, if that "new breed" is not registerable then it is no different, as far as your lines are concerned, than if it was a half pedigree. It cannot possibly ruin any existing line.

    Liz
     
  12. ellie8024

    ellie8024 PetForums VIP

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    no ragamuffins are a different breed, solid ragdolls, as far as i am aware, are recognized as non pointed ragdolls with TICA (i did some research as i was looking for a solid blue ragdoll) and the only way to get one is to have them imported from the US, Italy Norway etc as there are no registered breeders in the UK
     
    #12 ellie8024, Jul 15, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2009
  13. Angeli

    Angeli PetForums Senior

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    I was not actually thinking along those lines (pardon the pun).
    What Im concerned about is the increasingly limited gene pool available out there from like-minded breeders.

    For instance in my breed the chinnies there are less than a handful of breeders left that breed silver to silver only, myself included. The rest outcross theres with the golden persian which is the only outcrossing permitted for my breed - now I dont want to offend anyone that owns or breeds them as they are a nice breed in their own right but in my opinion they have nothing to add to the silvers that would improve them either in type or colour and there is a high risk of producing tarnished silvers - which of course is useless for showing, and Ive known this to happen frequently, once its in your lines its a problem to breed out.

    The most successful exhibitors in my breed happen to breed from pure silvers only - and that's not a coincidence.
     
  14. Taylorbaby

    Taylorbaby PetForums VIP

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    ahh right as Ragamuffins were ragdolls but they broke away and re-named it. Ive seen bi-colour ragsmuffins but Ive never really looked into it any further!
     
  15. ellie8024

    ellie8024 PetForums VIP

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    i believe ragamuffins were ragdolls outcrossed with Persians, Himalayans, and domestic long haired cats.
     
  16. Milly22

    Milly22 PetForums VIP

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    I tried to get a "solid" ragdoll 2 years ago. There were none here.

    I know a Breeder in England has had a black mitted boy and a another solid friend shipped over, last year I think.

    I doubt very much she would sell as breeding and she would also , one would think have them neutered before leaving.

    These have all came from Ann bakers lines apparently.

    Persian outcrosses are in the Ragamuffin and also some use Siberian cats.
     
  17. Izzie999

    Izzie999 PetForums VIP

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    Hi,

    Well personally I wouldn't pay £200 for a kitten when they aren't even going to be vaccinated or registered. Why not keep them till 13 weeks old and have them vaccinated. I think anyone with a bit of commonsense wouldn't touch them with a barge pole for that reason alone, cute kittens but for £200 I would expect alot more than that.

    Izzie
     
  18. ellie8024

    ellie8024 PetForums VIP

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    if.. and only if both parents are registered ragdolls then £200 is actually a standard price for un vaccinated un registered kittens and IF the mother is a blue solid ragdoll then yeah i think the price reflects how rare it is to get this type of cat in the uk
     
  19. Cat_Crazy

    Cat_Crazy PetForums VIP

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    I have actually contacted the person selling these kittens as I too wanted a 'solid' Ragdoll a couple of years back but not were to be seen in the UK.

    From what I understand the mother is an import and is a registered Ragdoll (very jealous!)

    The father is a colourpoint registered Ragdoll.

    She explained that she is attempting to bring solid Ragdolls back into normal lines before they vannish completely.

    Due to a mix up in paperwork?? She explained that the kittens would not be registered but that they will come with their pedigree and I am welcome to see the pedigree and registration documents of the parents.

    She also explained that Solid Ragdolls can give birth to pointed and non-pointed Ragdolls in the same litter although with these kittens it appears that the colourpoints have 'reversed' as they have white points and a coloured body, how strange, I have certainly never heard of this before but then I am no expert.

    The kittens will indeed be vaccinated she explained and the cost of neutering will also be paid once the kitten is old enough. She also said I would be required to state a contract agreeing to neuter and that if the cat is not neutered by 12 months of age then she will re-possess the cat.

    It all sounds very good after chatting to her and I am VERY tempted although she did say that she has now cracked the paperwork and the next litter will be registered so perhaps I will wait until then?

    What do you all think??
     
  20. ellie8024

    ellie8024 PetForums VIP

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    she is correct, the solids can also produce the pointed breeds. and her having the pedigree papers for the parents is fantastic
     
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