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Vet advised to switch from Raw diet

Discussion in 'Dog Chat' started by GB70, Jan 30, 2021.


  1. GB70

    GB70 PetForums Member

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    Our Frenchie Posy (11w) has been on RAW (Basic Instinct) as thats what the breeder was feeding. My wife was considering RAW anyway and I didnt want to swap her diet immediately after the "trauma" of moving home.

    We had our first Vet visit yesterday for her second jab and the Vet advised switching her from RAW. Firstly because she said it can be difficult to ensure they are getting all the nutrients she needs. Secondly because of the risk of Salmonella, particularly as we have young kids.

    We did ask around extensively for advice on Vets and two were recommended. One close to the Hospital my wife works at, the other which is ~400m from our home. Both have out of hours service and we didn't hear any negatives about either, so we thought we'd give the latter a try first. As in an emergency it's comforting to know you can be at the vet in minutes.

    So far they seem to be friendly and accommodating. They did make a mistake with the second jab, Nurse told me it could be administered from 3 weeks, but yesterday the Vet said that was incorrect. She gave Posy a free checkup anyway, which was fortunate as she has a an ear infection (£30 on AB's, the costs have started :) ).

    So I'm inclined to trust the Vet to an extent and am considering wether to continue on RAW or not. Plus It would free up our limited freezer space and most importantly I have to worry less about the kids touching it or her after she's eaten :)

    Also the Vet does a annual plan (£14/m - £168 annually) which covers:

    • Vaccinations – puppy vaccines & annual boosters (DHPPi/L4 + KC)
    • Flea treatment – Simparica Trio every month
    • Wormers – Droncit every 3 months (plus Simparica Trio)
    • Alternatives = Advocate (flea/worm) and Drontal Plus or Milpro (wormer)
    • Nurse clinics (unlimited) – weight/diet, nails, anal glands, health checks
    • Annual urinalysis and blood pressure measurement (esp older dogs)
    10% Discount on anything else (but my wife gets that anyway as they offer an NHS discount).

    The Jab and health check is £35. Presume the annual booster would be similar. Worming would probably cost about £30 for the year if I bought Panacur/etc myself. So deducting those from the £168 I estimate the rest of the services on that list are costing ~£70. The vet did say you could cancel within the year, but then they'd go back and recalculate based on what you'd used and charge individually. So we were considering doing it for the first year and see how it goes.

    Do any of you think it's reasonable value.

    Thanks
     
  2. Linda Weasel

    Linda Weasel PetForums VIP

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    I wouldn’t have one of these plans because, for example, I don’t do worm and flea treatments every three months. Vets seem to push this level of treatment but I’ve never found it necessary. And I’m not sure I like pumping chemicals into my dog at that rate.

    My Vets nurses are always available for advice, claw clipping etc, and the scales are free to use.
     
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  3. Burrowzig

    Burrowzig PetForums VIP

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    The value of the package isn't too bad if you'd buy all those things, and use them, anyway. I wouldn't, though the weight/growth checks and nurse clinics for a puppy might be useful though not so much for an adult. I don't like to use wormers and flea treatments that aren't necessary, and can be foisted on you with these schemes whether you want/need them or not. I worm my dogs once or twice a year, and flea treat (mainly against ticks) a couple of times a year in summer. I've never seen a flea on any of them, other than on my first dog who picked some up when we stayed in a friend's (infested) house.
    You'd have a job to get through £30 worth of Panacur (my wormer of choice) in a year, and the bottle should keep longer.
    And if the raw food is described as 'complete' it has to contain all the nutrients needed. If the vet thinks it won't meet the dog's needs, it makes you wonder how they think dogs have evolved and survived these 35,000 years.
     
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  4. Sarah H

    Sarah H Grand Empress of the Universe

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    It's this misconception again that an 80:10:10 ratio pure meat dog food is complete. It isn't. Raw meat with fruit and veggies in is more likely to be a proper complete and balanced dog food (you can check if it's FEDIAF compliant). Remember also that vets see the worst when it comes to raw feeding - bone compaction, nutrient deficiencies, stomach issues etc. And in terms of germs it's raw meat so as long as you are handling it sensibly and cleaning up then there is no more likelihood of cross-contamination than any other raw meat. Salmonella is a weird one as there have been loads of recalls thanks to salmonella in dry food, but not many for raw food.
    If your dog is doing well on the raw then I personally wouldn't change it, but it's not the be all and end all if you do swap to dry or wet, or want to feed a mixture. My dogs get dry, wet, raw, cooked, leftovers, whatever I can feed them I will! And they very rarely have stomach issues. In fact I can probably count on one hand the times I remember a proper upset tum from all 3!
     
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  5. karenmc

    karenmc PetForums VIP

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    We took out our vet's Complete wellness plan which is about £18 a month. This includes all vet consultation charges, all flea, worm treatments, all vaccinations, nail trims and anal gland issues, an annual full medical health check with blood tests if needed, 50 percent off spaying/neutering and I think it is 10 or 20 percent off any dental treatment. In addition they give 10 percent off any purchases in the surgery e.g food/toys.
    We are very happy with our vets as they have been fantastic with Luna. The package gives us peace of mind if we need to have her checked as consultation fees can mount up in the case of an illness. Does your package offer something similar. It is worth asking. Best wishes
     
  6. Sairy

    Sairy PetForums VIP

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    I just want to add that I raw feed my dog and have done since she was 6 months old. I have a 15 month old toddler who is into everything and so far no issues. I just make sure to practise good hygiene and make sure he doesn't touch the dog's bowl (which they shouldn't be doing anyway).
     
  7. mrs phas

    mrs phas karma is a funny old thing

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    I've raw fed for donkeys, and all my dogs have passed at 14+, even my mastiff x
    boxer, 3 have got as far as 18, my present two are both 11 and look and act half their age
    They are having tinned food at the moment (Rocco) which I'm super happy with
    But
    That's only because of covid and lack of freezer space,
    As soon as I can get a small freezer for the shed, they'll be back on raw
     
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  8. fernlady

    fernlady PetForums VIP

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    Please remember that vets aren't nutrition experts. They obviously have a good idea about food but as @Sarah H has already said, vets see the worst. I would continue if the food suits your Frenchie, it can be hard to find a food that suits them & Natural Instinct is a good food.

    I took out the annual plan for my dog 8 years ago & have found it very useful.
     
    #8 fernlady, Jan 30, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2021
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  9. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

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    Same, I have fed raw around my kids (now 18) since they were infants and never had any issues. And we had 4 dogs when they were babies and the dogs did plenty of baby cleaning up too. Grubby toddler hands are great to lick clean ;)
     
  10. Boxer123

    Boxer123 PetForums VIP

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    I feed raw I really think you should use whatever food your dog does best on. In all the years of feeding raw I have never made myself ill.
     
  11. CheddarS

    CheddarS PetForums VIP

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    Your vet obviously didn’t advise you that you can get salmonella from dry food...but then they would probably recommend the food that they are sponsored for.

    Pet plans are only useful if you use all the elements, we worked out that were much better without it and the service we from our vet is superb despite not having it!
     
  12. Blitz

    Blitz PetForums VIP

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    Me too.

    I really do not stress over food, mine are on different food for health reasons at the moment but have always fed what I wanted to feed. My previous iron stomach dogs have had anything from curry to tripe to trimmed fat off steak etc, all table scraps (not at the table) and dry food.
     
  13. LotsaDots

    LotsaDots PetForums Senior

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    I feed a mix of raw, wet and dry, I've mixed the brands about a lot and my dog gets different food at my mums but she's never had any issues. We have settled on Naturo now mixed with pets at home step up biscuits (because it's well priced and comes in a small breed which is good for training treats for pup) I've just started giving the puppy (6 months) raw chicken wings which he loves. Adult dog has a couple of raw chicken thighs a week and they both get raw Mince frozen in a kong.
    I think you just have to find what works for you if the dog is fit, healthy and the right weight then carry on doing what you are doing. There's a lot of stuff out there now about salmonella etc our dogs were fed raw tripe and all sorts of weird offal when we were kids, the only salmonella we got was from an undercooked chicken for sunday lunch!
     
  14. GB70

    GB70 PetForums Member

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    Kind off my thinking aswell. Although historically they wouldn't have lived as long, so can see that balancing their diet would promote a longer/healthier life. Just don't see how RAW in itself can be wrong as thats what they've evolved to eat.
     
  15. GB70

    GB70 PetForums Member

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    She's on the Basic Instincts RAW Puppy. But we supplement it with Fruit and Veg for a couple of reasons, plus some RAW treats (adjusting how much of the puppy food she gets so she's not over fed).

    Firstly because she's always bloody hungry :) Secondly she enjoys them. Thirdly as a training tool. And finally as you say I believe variety is important. Even if the RAW food is balanced, I'm not sure eating just that is necessarily good.

    My main worry with the RAW is the kids. I think her stomach will be resilient enough, as she's evolved to handle such bacteria and has had it since a being weaned. Moreover, her mother is on it. The kids on the other hand are not so resilient. We use normal raw meat precautions. Washing hands after handling and immediately washing the bowl. But I worry a bit when she licks the kids, as I constantly have to remind them to wash their hands if she's eaten recently.
     
  16. GB70

    GB70 PetForums Member

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    I dont think they offer Vet consultations. The inclusion of that in your package makes it more enticing, especially the first year when you may have more concerns (not necessarily valid, but akin to new parent over worrying). I'll ask them when she goes in for her jab next week.
     
  17. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

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    Technically dogs evolved as scavengers so if we're talking 'evolutionary feeding' we should be feeding our dogs from our leftovers and compost bin :D
    In all seriousness though I am a big believer in the dog as scavenger school of feeding and to that end my dogs get pretty much anything and everything. Sometimes they get raw from the butcher, sometimes they get leftovers from generous hunter friends, sometimes they get lovely concoctions I cook up for them, sometimes they catch or find their own dinner, often they just get commercial kibble and wet, and sometimes they eat random things I need cleaning out of the fridge and cabinets.
    I've done this with every dog I've owned as an adult, never had a fussy eater, never had one with a sensitive stomach or food sensitivities or allergies, never had any issues really. Whether that's a function of the dogs I end up with or the way I feed, I don't know, but I do think sometimes we overthink the food thing. If it suits you and your dog, carry on :)
     
  18. GB70

    GB70 PetForums Member

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    Oops, forgot about the toddler clean up being another supplement to her raw :)

    I do have to watch them like a hawk if the kids are eating something that she can't have (grapes for example).
     
    #18 GB70, Jan 30, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2021
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  19. Sairy

    Sairy PetForums VIP

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    My dog's diet is mostly raw, supplemented with toddler scraps, the occasional leftover scraps from the cats and whatever is left on our plates. Food doesn't go to waste in this house.
     
  20. GB70

    GB70 PetForums Member

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    That is what I'm doing to an extent. I believe the Natural Instinct Raw has meat, bone plus some veg. And then I'm adding fruit/veg because as you say they will have evolved to take meat as a first preference, but anything else they can get when the hunt didnt go well.

    I am being a little careful as she's a Lilac and have been told/read they are more prone to allergies. So only adding other elements to her diet bit by bit so I can spot anything that may not sit well. And I can then work backwards and start eliminating. Ofcourse any allergy could be environmental aswell. Hopefully I dont face that problem, but once its put in your mind :)
     
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