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Vaccinations

Discussion in 'Cat Breeding' started by catcoonz, Aug 23, 2013.


  1. catcoonz

    catcoonz PetForums VIP

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    Took my litter for 2nd vaccinations today and the vet wrote in for kittens to be vaccinated a 3rd time at 16 weeks old, when i asked why he said kittens are not fully protected by the first vaccination at 9 weeks old.

    Thoughts on this please, as i always advertise my kittens as fully vaccinated so this would mean they leave at 17 weeks old instead of the 13 weeks.
     
  2. spotty cats

    spotty cats PetForums VIP

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    Here it depends on the vet, and sometimes the breed. I had one vet in the past who preferred the finer breeds (like Orientals) to have that final 16 week vaccination.

    I do 8 & 12, my current vet is happy to leave it at that.

    I know others who don't do a first vaccination until 10 weeks saying it's useless to do beforehand.
     
  3. spid

    spid PetForums VIP

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    Never known it over here before - was he a foreign vet?
     
  4. catcoonz

    catcoonz PetForums VIP

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    Hes my regular vet, just said studies showed the 9 week vaccine not benificial to kittens but 12 and 16 weeks is better.
     
  5. spid

    spid PetForums VIP

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    He could have told you that at 9 weeks rather than springing it onto you now
     
  6. jaycee05

    jaycee05 PetForums VIP

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    So to vaccinate 3 times, how much more is that going to cost you,
    I have heard of later vaccinations abroad, but not here before
     
    #6 jaycee05, Aug 23, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2013
  7. we love bsh's

    we love bsh's PetForums VIP

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    isnt it pipje who was on about this a bit back,its really not going to work unless new owners want to do the 3rd vacc whos going to wait that long for a kitten not many! Money making!!?
     
  8. jaycee05

    jaycee05 PetForums VIP

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    Exactly what I was thinking,
     
  9. Shadow And Lightning

    Shadow And Lightning PetForums VIP

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    my vets recommend 9 weeks and 12 weeks, aint had a kitten vaccinated for a while, but when I was there the other there was a 9 week old litter of rescues in for their vaccinations so cant be all vets that are doing this

    money making I think, two vaccinations aren't cheap, let alone three!
     
  10. spotty cats

    spotty cats PetForums VIP

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    That's what happens here for those who recommend a 3rd vacc, the new owner gets it done.
     
  11. cats galore

    cats galore PetForums VIP

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    why didn't he tell you that before the first injection CC? i've never heard of it before tbh, and i think i agree with others. if people want the third jab, let them do it. you've never had problems before with kittens not having the third jab have you? i think i'd be asking opinions of other vets just to see
     
  12. wicket

    wicket PetForums VIP

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    I think this is going to vary from vet to vet depending on what studies they have read and their own personal opinion. My vet does 9 and 12 weeks, however if vaccinations lapse he is happy to just give one jab as long as the cat had the course of 2as a kitten, whereas I know a lot of vets will say you need the course again. Its really dependent on the cats immune response. Years ago when there was talk about the MMR for children being linked to autism my son had the first jab - when he was four he was due a "booster" - I asked why, and my GP told me it was because on 95 percent of children produced the right antibodies after the first vaccination, 5 percent didnt -95 percent seemed quite high so I told my GP I would risk my son being in that 95 percent rather than have an unnecessary vaccination- GP wasnt happy with this so we blood tested my son who was measles mumps and rubella immune - the second vaccination would have been a waste of time. I guess the same is going to be true with kittens - some will have the correct immune response at 9 weeks some at 12 and some maybe as late as 16 weeks

    Its a really good point about advertising "fully vaccinated" I must admit have just done the same - I think next time it will be "kttens will leave having had vaccinations at 9 and 12 weeks" :)
     
  13. pipje

    pipje PetForums VIP

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    yup it was me who brought it up the last time. the new thing here is for kittens to be vaccinated at 12 weeks, leave the nest at 13weeks and another vaccination at 15/16 weeks. no 3rd vaccination. owners can also pick up the kittens at 16/17 weeks if they prefer.

    the reason is idd that the vaccination at 9 weeks is useless.

    using mobile now so short answer and mistakes!
     
  14. wicket

    wicket PetForums VIP

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    Is that because studies have shown that at 9 weeks they dont produce the correct anti body response ? How long has this been in practice where you are please?
     
  15. pipje

    pipje PetForums VIP

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    Hi Wicket,

    This timetable (12 and 15/16 weeks) is quite common amongst the more 'aware' breeders and thanks to Facebook/forums these days, the awareness has spread so more and more breeders are choosing to vaccinate at these ages. However, there are still plenty who vaccinate at 9 and 12 weeks old (including myself although my next nest will be vaccinated at 12 and 15/16 weeks old).

    Some breeders say that perhaps one of the reason why they're seeing more FIP cases is possibly because kittens are getting weaker weaker due to too much vaccinations etc. That is just hearsay, mind you.

    Anyway, here are some (translated) excerpts from the cat club magazine (various articles so not all are related). All translation faults are mine, sorry!:

    1) The pharma companies then thought of something new: "vaccinating at 9 and 12 weeks old! Kittens have to leave the nest at 13 weeks old after all so that's awesome, isn't it? Now the kittens can leave the nest fully vaccinated!".

    The funny thing is, the paper which accompanied the vaccine (can't remember the word for it, sorry;) ) changed too. It used to say only vaccinate at 12 weeks old UNLESS the kitten did not receive maternal care (and therefore antibodies). The later, it changed to say that "Vaccinating at 9 weeks old can cause severe reactions!".

    The advice of a Virologist from the Vetinerary Specialist University in Utrecht is to vaccinate first, at 12 weeks and the second 3 to 4 weeks later. Until 12 weeks, the immunity kittens get from mum wanes and this is when one should add antibodies.

    2) After the birth, the mother cat passes on immunity via colostrum to her kittens and this is called maternal immunity. This lasts for 6 to 12 weeks, depending on the amount of antibodies that the mother has and if these antibodies is compatible with the intestinal wall and if the kitten drank well from mum shortly after the birth. Kittens who did not get colostrum from mum would have immunity for 1-2 weeks after the birth (thanks to protection given during gestation).

    As long as kittens enjoy this maternal immunity, there is no point vaccinating them because if you do it too early, the vaccination is not effective and the kitten is not protected. After 12 weeks, most kittens are usually suitable for vaccinating.

    3) In the event you do not dare to wait too long or if your kitten grows up in a risky environment (lots of cats in a small place, changes in your group, stress, many nests, the presence of many cat flu carriers,bad hygiene etc. In other words, poor cattery management), then you should vaccinate against cat flu earlier.

    4) Seriously, vaccinating against the feline parvovirus before the kitten is 12 weeks old is not effective. So if you vaccinate your kitten at 9 weeks against cat flu, ask your vet to vaccinate ONLY against cat flu and vaccinate again at 12 weeks with the normal cocktail of cat flu+feline parvo.

    If your kitten grows up in a healthy environment without risk factors, you can expect to wait til 12 weeks old (cocktail vaccination) before giving the first vaccination. In his new home, the kitten can have the booster at around 16 weeks old against cat flu.

    To summarise:

    - ALWAYS vaccinate twice against cat flu (as mentioned above to this means either at 9 and 12 weeks or 12 weeks and 15/16 weeks depending on what you want)

    - Vaccinate once for feline parvo PROVIDED this was not given before the age of 12 weeks and a live vaccine is used.

    5) My vet says he has the impression that kittens who received their first vaccination at 9 weeks old (living vaccine), has no immunity after that because of this because antibodies from mum and the vaccine 'fight' against each other which makes both useless.

    Now, specialists have agreed that this is indeed the case. Vaccinations at 9 and 12 weeks old do not protect properly precisely because the kittens still have antibodies from mum. This is based on checking the anti-titre 2 weeks after the vaccination where it showed that kittens did not have immunity. Only at 16 weeks, could kittens show an anti titre (2 weeks after the vaccination) as immunity by mum was reduced to almost zero. So it is advised to vaccinate at 16 weeks for long-term immunity.

    --------------
     
    dougal22 likes this.
  16. we love bsh's

    we love bsh's PetForums VIP

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    well if it comes common practice it will save breeders on a vaccination as the new owner would do the 2nd so thats fine with me.:)
     
  17. colliemerles

    colliemerles PetForums VIP

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    hmmmmm but will ALL new owners bother to do the second vaccine, some of them dont bother to neuter, so will they bother to get the second vaccine, i no alot who dont even bother to change the kitten into their owner ship. :confused:
     
  18. wicket

    wicket PetForums VIP

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    or will GCCF recommendations change to 16 weeks two vaccinations ?
     
  19. catcoonz

    catcoonz PetForums VIP

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    I dont know why the vet didnt mention at the 9 week vaccine and each vaccine costs me £38.

    I dont mind if this protects the kittens to have 3 vaccinations doing but people like kittens at 13 weeks old, then if kittens have to be fully vaccinated at 16 weeks then leave a week before neutering my breed is not like a kitten at this age, more like a normal size cat, so then that puts my kittens ready for rehoming at the age of 18/19 weeks old.
     
  20. havoc

    havoc PetForums VIP

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    I've brought it up numerous times on this forum. It's been in the offing for ages and it isn't about making money. We vaccinate at 9 and 12 weeks as an average. Kittens lose maternal antibody protection at different rates so we give a first dose at 9 weeks because the antibody level will hopefully be low enough in 'most' for it to be worthwhile by then. It's completely ineffective in those kittens which still have high enough levels from mum. We're fairly sure the 12 week dose is effective across the board so for those kittens which had high levels of maternally derived antibodies that 12 week dose is effectively a first vaccination. Another dose around 16 weeks would ensure all kittens have had two effective doses, ie a full course.
     
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