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Urinary S/O Diet

Discussion in 'Cat Health and Nutrition' started by jose&thierry, Jun 7, 2010.


  1. jose&thierry

    jose&thierry PetForums Newbie

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    Hello everyone,

    This is my first post so a little info. I have two BL, brothers nearly 6 yrs old. One of the cats Jose, had crystals when he was 3 mths old and had to have a couple of ops to clear them. Everything was fine until 2008 when he developed UTI and was put on Royal Canin Urinary S/O LP34. Both cats eat this.

    We were told to feed no more than 80gms per day, but I find that both cats get very hungry. Without going back to vet (if poss) where can I find out how much they should be on and a also can I mix this is a meat version & do 80gs per day split 40g of wet & 40g of dry?

    I just think that the meat may fill them up a bit - and stop them bringing trophies home... Which tends to stop if I switch to normal meat whilst waiging for delivery (If I've run out).
     
  2. billyboysmammy

    billyboysmammy PetForums VIP

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    Hiya hun


    I would remove all the dry from their diet entirely. If your happy with the brand they are on and they do a wet version... then put them on that.

    Dry food is really not appropriate (no matter what additives its been given) for a cat with bladder or kidney problems.

    I'm not saying you have to stop using the prescription diet, just use the wet version. Cats are not designed to eat a dry diet, and especially not cereals.

    I know the prescription diet you mention has additives to help dissolve any crystals, but its absoloutly full of cereals and other unecessary ingredients which can cause the problem in the first place! Cats on a dry diet are more prone to crystals so whilst your giving with one hand your taking away with the other.

    ingredients for your diet:
    Rice, wheat gluten***, dehydrated poultry meat, maize flour, animal fats, maize gluten, hydrolysed animal
    proteins, minerals, vegetable fibre, beet pulp, Fructo-Oligo-Saccharides (FOS), fish oil, soya oil, egg powder,
    DL-methionine, hydrolysed crustaceans (source of glucosamine), taurine, marigold extract (source of lutein).

    ingredients for the wet diet:
    Meat and animal derivatives, cereals (maize), oils and fats, eggs and egg derivatives, derivatives of vegetable origin, minerals. Average analysis: Protein 7.5%, Fat 5%, Ash 1.5%, Fibre 0.6%, Moisture 80%, Calcium 0.14%, Phosphorous 0.12%, Potassium 0.3%, Sodium 0.15%, Magnesium 0.013%, Chloride 0.3%, Sulphur 0.15%.

    Both foods are full of cereals, but i would still choose the wet over the dry given the choice.

    As for the reccomended daily intake, if the cats are hungry then feed a little more but monitor their weight. A fat cat will have urine troubles too!
     
  3. Tobacat

    Tobacat PetForums Senior

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    I'd also say to try the prescription wet. You obviously want to keep the crystals dissolved, but at the same time plenty of liquid in their diet stops the urine being too alkaline which can cause problems.

    Regarding the amount, it might be worth contacting Royal Canin and asking the recommended amount. I think most give the recommended amount based on a 4kg cat, so if they are heavier (but not fat) you might want to up this. By the way, what would you say their weight is like? If they are very slim with no wobbly tummy, you should be able to get away with a bit more.
     
  4. hobbs2004

    hobbs2004 PetForums VIP

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    I presume the 80g warning was with regard to the dry food?

    Dry food is more calorific then the wet (this with the lack of moisture means that you need to feed less than wet food). So, it doesn't necessarily mean that if you only need to feed 40g of wet with your 40g of dry. You will need more wet.

    I echo the other two posts - I would leave out dry food completely if you can get the equivalent wet food.
     
  5. jose&thierry

    jose&thierry PetForums Newbie

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    Thank you for your replies.

    Yes Hobbs2004 the 80g was based on dry food.

    I have just had a look at the amount for wet food and it would go up to 340g per day. The shocking thing is the cost @ £112.00 per month:eek6: - unless I just feed the one with the problem the dietary food. But even then I'll probably still be paying around the £70.00 mark.
     
  6. hobbs2004

    hobbs2004 PetForums VIP

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    :eek:

    Does he still get crystals? Has he had a bout of cystitis lately or has it all being quiet since 2008.

    What were you feeding them before that episode in 2008, when the vet advised you to get the special formula dry food?

    I am just wondering whether you can start experiment with other high meat wet foods and still keep the UTI under control.
     
  7. jose&thierry

    jose&thierry PetForums Newbie

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    Would be good if we could. What brands do you suggest?
     
  8. hobbs2004

    hobbs2004 PetForums VIP

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    If you haven't had any problems in over 2 years then I would say why fix something when it isn't broken? Any reason you want to start feeding more wet? Could you just increase the dry you are feeding and see whether your cats are less hungry? Are they thin? Do they need to eat more or are they just greedy.

    In case you would be interested in feeding something else, then here comes the 100 dollar question: can you remember what type of crystals they were? The two common ones are struvites and calcium-oxolate that form depending on the ph value of the urine (struvite if the ph is too high and calcium oxolate if the ph is too low I believe).

    Maybe i am mistaken but you feed different things depending on the types of crystals so that ph value can be adjusted by food (strangely enough some dry food controls for either :confused:)

    But basically, a good first step is too find a food that doesn't contain any filler, has a low magnesium content, low phosphorus and low salt. The issue is that very few cat food manufacturers declare the magnesium content.

    So you would have to find a high meat food that sounds alright and then email the manufacturer to see whether you can get that info from them. Then you could also ask them about the ph level of their food.

    In both types of crystals it also makes sense to mix a lot of water in their wet food.

    So if you want to find a new food I think it will require some involvement from you (email manufacturers etc once you know what crystals you were dealing with).

    You can also get some indicator paper so that you can monitor the ph value of cat's wee at home :D Cat urine should be around the 6-7 mark.

    Edit - I just talked to someone who has got a struvite cat. Like you they were feeding him dry food as suggested by the vet. But then they realised that with the right high quality wet food, some raw food that makes the urine more sour anyhow and more liquid they could feed they could control their cat's crystals more effectively than the dry could.
     
    #8 hobbs2004, Jun 7, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2010
    Torin. likes this.
  9. Dally Banjo

    Dally Banjo PetForums VIP

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    Is he also on Cystaid pills?

    Scutter has been on the RC S/O food for years now he is 12yr now, we tried to change him to other food which said they did the same but within a week had another blockage :scared: £400 so stuck with the S/O, he did'nt like the wet version & to be honest none of them touched it :rolleyes: he has access to wet food to as cant stop him realy or it would be a major operation :rolleyes: our vet said that was fine aslong as his main diet is the S/O which he loves anyway as I have to feed him it in the bathroom so no one else can nick it :rolleyes: & he nags me as soon as my feet touch the floor when I get up :lol:

    He recently was getting a bit podgy so is now on the RC S/O moderate calorie & looks great but he also has 1 cystaid pill a day unless he starts acting like he is haveing a problem again we give him 2 a day & he's fine.
     
  10. jose&thierry

    jose&thierry PetForums Newbie

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    Hi Hobbs2004

    If you haven't had any problems in over 2 years then I would say why fix something when it isn't broken? Any reason you want to start feeding more wet? Only that they always seem hungry. The healthy cat seems to bring back more mice when he gets hungry, but when I do feed them meat he stops hunting. Could you just increase the dry you are feeding and see whether your cats are less hungry? Could try to increase but it has been known for healthy cat to get sick if he eats to much of it. Are they thin? No. Do they need to eat more or are they just greedy. They get the 80g spread over 4 feeds so 20g per feed at present. What I was thinking of doing is to feed all the biscuit & give a little meat after the last meal of the day. Probably a little of both.
    In case you would be interested in feeding something else, then here comes the 100 dollar question: can you remember what type of crystals they were? The two common ones are struvites and calcium-oxolate that form depending on the ph value of the urine (struvite if the ph is too high and calcium oxolate if the ph is too low I believe). I've looked at vet report from when he was admitted to RVC over one weekend as our vet was closed - The Urinalysis reported to have revealed both Stuvite & Calcium Oxalate crystals.

    Dally Banjo,

    He isn't on any meds as it seems to be ok with diet. I feed both my cats on it as I questioned the same thing with two. I was told that it's better for healthy cat to have it than unhealthy cat not to. They both seem fine on it - just a little hungry.

    As Hobbs2004 says, if it isn't broke don't fix it - I think I will stay with dry diet (they always have water available) and just add a small amount of meat to fill their bellies up in the evening.
     
  11. Dally Banjo

    Dally Banjo PetForums VIP

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    Im sure they will both be fine on that, we used to leave the S/O food out all the time so they all munched on it but as they have all got older we have 2 who only have 2 teeth left :eek: & they kept eating it & bringing it straight back :arf: so just feed Scutter it twice a day by himself & leave the wet food out all the time now he's been fine so I would'nt worry to much & there's alot of moisture in wet food anyway :)
     
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