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Ultimate Brexit Thread

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by MrsZee, Dec 10, 2017.


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  1. stockwellcat.

    stockwellcat. PetForums VIP

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    According to the Irish Times (From the Republic of Ireland) there is an update on this saying the Irish Citizens rights will be protected after Brexit under the CTA, article dated 22nd December 2017. Irish Citizens will still be allowed to travel and live, study and work in the UK under the CTA after Brexit as they do now and vise versa. An agreement was made in Brussels in early December 2017 regarding the CTA according to the Irish Times.
    Screenshot_20180209-111236.jpg
    Screenshot_20180209-111251.jpg

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ire...common-travel-area-rights-protected-1.3337125
     
    #1701 stockwellcat., Feb 9, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  2. KittenKong

    KittenKong PetForums VIP

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    You mention Irish citizens. Surely their credentials will have to be checked to ensure they are indeed Irish and not from other parts of the EU!
     
  3. stockwellcat.

    stockwellcat. PetForums VIP

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    Well yes you would have to show your passport or photographic ID to register for tax etc like you do in the EU. If you mean at ports and airports, you have to do this currently anyway between Ireland and the UK.

    For example my dad went to Northern Ireland from the Manchester on the 29th January 2018 and returned on the 1st February 2018 and had to show photographic ID at Belfast Airport he produced his passport both on arrival and departure.
     
    #1703 stockwellcat., Feb 9, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  4. Arnie83

    Arnie83 PetForums VIP

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    Northern Ireland is the UK. Currently no ID needs to be shown to cross the Ireland / NI border. After Brexit, if it is only Irish citizens who are allowed to be part of the CTA, how do you stop non-Irish EU citizens from entering the UK (=NI) without a hard border?
     
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  5. Arnie83

    Arnie83 PetForums VIP

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    And @stockwellcat. when you say we would be 'better off' outside the EU, do you mean economically?
     
  6. stockwellcat.

    stockwellcat. PetForums VIP

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    That's wrong.
    My dad flew from Manchester to Belfast and had to produce ID and used his passport in both directions.
     
  7. KittenKong

    KittenKong PetForums VIP

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    Yes, that's correct but currently there's an open border between the ROI and NI.
     
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  8. KittenKong

    KittenKong PetForums VIP

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    I believe that was also the case when we flew from Newcastle to Heathrow a few years ago despite it being exclusively in England!
     
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  9. Goblin

    Goblin PetForums VIP

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    Yes, you have to do that between London and Glasgow as well. Any flight you need to show ID and in the UK passport is the only acceptable one as far as I know for UK citizens.
     
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  10. stockwellcat.

    stockwellcat. PetForums VIP

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    And Irish ones because in Northern Ireland which is part of the UK citizens are entitled to UK and Irish passports.
     
  11. Goblin

    Goblin PetForums VIP

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    Ah so this can be summed up by the "politicians of the foreign office have said". No mention that any actual agreement involving how to achieve it has happened. Wouldn't as it's been postponed to the next phase of negotiations with the EU as the obvious way to achieve it is staying in the single market.
     
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  12. stockwellcat.

    stockwellcat. PetForums VIP

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    People with Irish and UK passports are entitled to travel freely between both countries under the CTA just like with being in the EU free movement. Obviously passports at Airports and Ports will get checked as we established above. The open border if closed in Ireland will affect goods and services not people. It will subject goods and services to checks. But correct me if I am wrong UK customs already check lorries and vehicles before they board the Euro Tunnel and ferries in Calais and in Belfast and Dublin as well before they board the ferries from their ports.
     
  13. Arnie83

    Arnie83 PetForums VIP

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    Not sure what Manchester has got to do with anything since it's not on the island of Ireland.

    Currently, thanks to the CTA people can walk across the border from the Republic of Ireland into Northern Ireland with no border checks.

    Once the UK leaves the EU, how can you stop non-Irish EU citizens from walking across the border from the Republic of Ireland (= the EU) into Northern Ireland (= the UK) if there is no hard border (= ID checks) ?
     
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  14. stockwellcat.

    stockwellcat. PetForums VIP

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    If you read what I said. My dad flew from Manchester to Belfast (Belfast being on the Island of Ireland) and had to show his passport like everyone else entering or leaving Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland being part of the UK. Others pointed out you have to do this going to other parts of the UK within the UK. I do believe you have to show your passport at any ferry point or airport when leaving or entering any country in Europe and around the world.
    That's what they are trying to thrash out in the negotistions at the moment.
     
    #1714 stockwellcat., Feb 9, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  15. Goblin

    Goblin PetForums VIP

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    No you don't. Travelling from the UK to Northern Ireland for example you do not. Now one of the red lines the government has stated is moving the "border" to the separation between northern ireland and the mainland which would seem one of the simplest solutions. It isn't acceptable to have NI retaining the single market either as part of the UK.

    According the your previous link everything is settled. The truth is, it hasn't been despite the foreign office's assertions. It's simply been postponed.
     
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  16. KittenKong

    KittenKong PetForums VIP

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    ¬°Hora de Una cerveza!
    WP_20180209_13_13_27_Pro.jpg III
     
    #1716 KittenKong, Feb 9, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
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  17. stockwellcat.

    stockwellcat. PetForums VIP

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  18. Arnie83

    Arnie83 PetForums VIP

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    So you don't know. Which is absolutely fair enough, since no-one else does either.

    This from Barnier this morning, as per the BBC report, among many

    The EU's chief Brexit negotiator has repeated that a UK decision to leave the single market and customs union would make Irish border checks "unavoidable".

    May has said that alignment of regulations between NI and Ireland / EU is a possibility (it was in the withdrawal agreement). But she's also said that NI will be treated no differently from the rest of the UK. And that the UK is leaving the single market and customs union.

    Given that these are mutually incompatible it's difficult to see how it will be achieved. Even harder to see how it's the EU's fault!
     
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  19. Arnie83

    Arnie83 PetForums VIP

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    Oh, and incidentally, @stockwellcat. ; when you say we will be 'better off outside the EU', do you mean economically?
     
  20. Jesthar

    Jesthar PetForums VIP

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    I think you will find that statement is far from correct.

    A closed border in Ireland will have quite a significant impact on people, given that the greater part of both Irish economies relies on frictionless trade with the other half and many products can crisscross the border multiple times before they reach their final form. In particular, over 90% of the NI companies involved in such trading back and forth are micro-companies, with fewer than 50 employees. Crossing a hard border with customs inspections/quarantines would add significant time and cost to doing business, and I think it is safe to project that a lot of those small companies may find themselves unable to continue trading, or greatly limited. Bye bye jobs, and probably farms too. Then for every firm that closes or cuts back, there will be knock on effects for those that sold prodcuts to them or bought products off them. And whilst churn and companies ceasing trading is all part of a natural business cycle, to have so many under threat from something they can literally do nothing about risks the economic integrity of both NI and Ireland, though at least Ireland will have the EU to support it.

    Of course, it's also worth considering that NI voted Remain by a significant margin. If a hard Brexit is forced on them and has even a part of the projected potential impact, then if it really hits the fan we could potentially even see the Troubles starting all over again.
     
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