Welcome!

Welcome to PetForums, the UK's most popular and friendly pet owners community. Please 'Sign Up' if you'd like to take part and contribute to our forum.

Sign Up

Transitioning a cat with IBD to raw - a diary.

Discussion in 'Cat Health and Nutrition' started by Forester, Jul 17, 2017.


  1. Pavonine

    Pavonine PetForums Senior

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2017
    Messages:
    517
    Likes Received:
    1,706
    Late to reply but I wanted to say that I also like to read about Dylan and how wonderfully you are caring for him. If the thread causes any stress then obviously we would all want you to take a step back, but if it is helpful and therapeutic then please continue, I love hearing about everything.

    I realise this is not an easy journey for you and at times it may seem like he is taking a step backwards, but you have cared for him like nobody else could, who knows where he would be today if he didn’t have your devotion? You did not cause his problems, but he is an incredibly lucky boy that you are trying to fix them and as a result he undoubtedly has a much happier life than he could ever find with somebody else.
     
    oliviarussian, Forester and lorilu like this.
  2. Forester

    Forester trained by Dylan

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2012
    Messages:
    4,456
    Likes Received:
    5,449

    @Pavonine I apologise for not responding to this post when I was it yesterday evening. I couldn't find the words which I needed, and I'm afraid that I still can't. Sadly I was not blessed with eloquence.

    You can have no idea how much your words mean to me. The support I've received on this thread has been like having a best friend here beside me every second of every day. It is lonely having a cat which veterinary medicine seems unable to help and few people understand in the way that you all do. This thread has been like a crutch to support me. I couldn't have done what I have for Dylan without you all behind me. I thank every one of you.
     
    chillminx, Pavonine and oliviarussian like this.
  3. Forester

    Forester trained by Dylan

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2012
    Messages:
    4,456
    Likes Received:
    5,449
    A week has passed since I withdrew the Purrform Supplement, Mercola probiotics and Phosphatidyl Choline from Dylan's diet. He's been sick twice so I have absolutely no idea whether the changes have made any difference at all.

    It has been an extremely stressful week for Dylan with all sorts of things happening which may have caused him anxiety. If only I could reassure him that normal service should hopefully be resumed, eventually! Whether domestic events will have exacerbated Dylan's vomiting I really don't know. I'm very good at making excuses for individual vomits ( I've had plenty of practice ) so I try instead to look at the big picture .I'll keep everything as it is now for the next week and then reassess the situation.

    On one bright note ( although Dylan wouldn't agree with me on that ) Dylan survived a night without food yet didn't vomit breakfast. For some reason which I've yet to identify,his auto feeder didn't open causing him to miss 2 meals. He went 9 and a half hours, the longest he has ever fasted without it resulting in a vomit.

    This may seem a strange comment to make however I will be extremely interested in the composition of Dylan's next poo. Hunger is meant to stimulate peristaltic movement, and hair is the last thing to leave a cat's stomach, so will the next poo be a hairy one? I can hardly wait to find out. Does that make me a weirdo? Probably, but I don't care. IMO,anything which leads to me learning more about the machinations of Dylan's digestive system has to assist in my quest to help him.

    Whilst I'm here I may as well include another photo of my lovely boy. Here he is illustrating how hard his life can be at times.

    DSCN0639.JPG
     
  4. Forester

    Forester trained by Dylan

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2012
    Messages:
    4,456
    Likes Received:
    5,449
    Two weeks have passed since I withdrew the PurrForm Complete Supplement, Mercola probiotics and Phosphatidyl Choline from Dylan's diet. I honestly don't know whether the changes have made any difference or not. I'll give it a few more days before deciding on my next move.

    If anyone is interested, Dylan's next poo, after the unintentional overnight fast, didn't seem to contain any more hair than his usual offerings. The poo after that wasn't any different either. So much for that theory.

    I am continuing to comb Dylan on a daily, if not more frequent ,basis. I'm removing quite a bit of hair, although nowhere near as much as when I first started combing. I'm telling myself that it has to help.
     
    stockwellcat. and Paddypaws like this.
  5. lorilu

    lorilu PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    8,071
    Likes Received:
    7,425
    It may take longer than two nights to see any difference. When I first discovered Mazy cat was ready for the overnight "fast" and how much it helped her, there were 6 days in a row that she went 12 hours or more without a meal every day. It was unavoidable for reasons I won't go into here. After that 6 days she went 22 days before she vomited again.

    I now strive for 8 hours overnight on work nights and 10, at the minimum, on weekends. But prior to that discovery in July 2015, she could not go more than 6 hours between meals.
     
  6. Forester

    Forester trained by Dylan

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2012
    Messages:
    4,456
    Likes Received:
    5,449

    I'm not trying to introduce an overnight fast. :) It was accidental. Dylan generally does not do well with a fast and I figure that I have enough changes going on without introducing this at the moment.

    I regret hurrying ( relative term :rolleyes: ) achievement of the full dose of PurrForm Supplement, introducing a new probiotic and adding Phosphatidyl Choline concurrently. It's left me confused as to what's going on .My priority is to get the diet complete, or as complete as I can make it with Dylan not tolerating organs. If only I knew whether he is tolerating the PurrForm Supplement . Could it be that the bad spells since June are due to the Purrform or would they have happened anyway.?????? I know that I could try the vit/min supplement used in the Raw for IBD recipe but it wouldn't complete the diet . Dylan would still be missing the nutrients which are provided by organs but not by his cod liver oil/ taurine.
     
  7. lorilu

    lorilu PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    8,071
    Likes Received:
    7,425
    {{hug}}
     
    Forester likes this.
  8. Forester

    Forester trained by Dylan

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2012
    Messages:
    4,456
    Likes Received:
    5,449
    Thanks :)
     
  9. Forester

    Forester trained by Dylan

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2012
    Messages:
    4,456
    Likes Received:
    5,449
    I'm becoming more confident with every passing day that Dylan has been reacting to something in his diet. During the first 11 days of August he was sick 5 times, in the following 10 and 3/4 days it has only been once.

    He's also looking better again :D.Recently his coat had become harsher and less shiny, and his colour had been looking slightly tarnished. Now he is back to being my black beauty with a coat which shines like no other. The change in his coat doesn't really make sense. Purrform, clearly contains more nutritionally than calcium carbonate plus taurine plus cod liver oil yet he looks so much better on " my mix". I suppose that it is down to the cod liver oil.

    Anyway, I need to establish which supplement has been causing the increased vomiting however I wish that I didn't have to do it. To challenge him with something which I'm expecting to cause him problems feels like such a terrible thing to do . I hate even the idea of it but can't really think of an alternative.

    My suspicion is that the problem ingredient is the Purrform,( although at one point he was doing quite well with 50% Purrform :confused: ). Should I test the Purrform first, or leave it till last ? Should I forget the Purrform and try him with the Raw for IBD vit /min supplement ? With that option I would have some flexibility over exactly what I included.

    Part of me thinks that I should test Dylan with the Phosphatidyl Choline first because he's gone so long without it .

    If only I was better at making decisions.
     
  10. Forester

    Forester trained by Dylan

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2012
    Messages:
    4,456
    Likes Received:
    5,449
    Looking at the situation objectively I think that I have little choice other than to test Dylan with the Purrform Supplement first. It is the only way that I'm going to find out whether he's reacting to it. My ( current :rolleyes: ) plan is to start reintroducing it at 25% of the required level. I'll start on Monday as I can't quite bring myself to do it right now. .

    On the plus side, Dylan is now happily eating his food with cod liver oil added so perhaps he will also accept the Purrform Supplement fed that way. It would be so much easier than having to cram it into capsules, although of course I will do that if necessary.
     
    Pavonine and Paddypaws like this.
  11. lorilu

    lorilu PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    8,071
    Likes Received:
    7,425
    I'm going to be facing that too, with Jennie. She's been on plain cooked pork for over a month now. I'm getting very nervous about it and almost ready to put her on canned just to give her something balanced. I have some Ziwi Peak venison here. Or try the EZcomplete again.
     
  12. Forester

    Forester trained by Dylan

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2012
    Messages:
    4,456
    Likes Received:
    5,449

    Try not to panic.:) Calcium would be the most urgent need, swiftly followed by taurine though she'll also need Vit A pretty soon. What are your long term plans for her? Do you intend to build a diet from scratch ( I wouldn't recommend purely because of the anxiety it causes over missing nutrients ) or are you looking for a premix which suits her? What about Allnutrin. I think that they do one without chicken/ egg.
     
  13. lorilu

    lorilu PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    8,071
    Likes Received:
    7,425
    Alnutrin has one with calcium carbonate instead of egg shell calcium but all formulas contain egg yolk. It's so essential, they all have it. I took her off the EZc because I thought she had developed an intolerance to chicken. Since there's been no improvement, after all this time, I'm going to go ahead to start her back on it, with the cooked pork, very slowly. She hasn't been completely off calcium, she was on the egg shell, but it was suggested to try stopping it to see how she did.

    There was no change.

    If the EZcomplete makes things even worse, I will stop it of course, and go with the calcium carbonate for now. I won't hear the results of the re-test until next Tuesday..I can't help thinking there was something wrong about the compounded antibiotic, maybe it was dosed wrong. There was no improvement at all on the antibiotic, and the erythromycin is specific for campylobacter.
     
  14. Forester

    Forester trained by Dylan

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2012
    Messages:
    4,456
    Likes Received:
    5,449

    As far as I'm aware the reason why eggs are considered essential is because they are an extremely rich source of Choline. Unlike dogs, cats don't synthesize Choline easily. To do so they need to have an excess of methionine, Vit b12 and folate. If Jennie is unable to tolerate chicken's eggs would she cope with duck or quail eggs? If she can't cope with eggs choline can be provided in the form of choline salts, e. g Choline bitartrate, or by phosphatidyl choline or even lecithin.

    Even if Dylan turns out to tolerate the Purrform Supplement I still intend to supplement his diet with Choline. In addition to the Phosphatidyl Choline capsules I'm planning to eventually try him with Sunflower lecithin which is another source .

    Maybe it will take a little time after finishing the antibiotics for Jennie to show a clear improvement. If there is no improvement , which I hope will not be the case, then perhaps a different antibiotic might be effective. I know that this research was done in humans but I believe that there have been issues with campylobacter being resistant to erythromycin.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2691575/

    I am confident that you will find a way to deal with Jennie's issue. No one could be more devoted to their cats than you.:)
     
  15. Forester

    Forester trained by Dylan

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2012
    Messages:
    4,456
    Likes Received:
    5,449
    Things are looking up. Dylan has gone two weeks with just one vomit so either I've withdrawn something which was causing him an issue or he's shedding much, much less. I've come out of my panic that he's deteriorating.

    I'd intended to start him with 25% Purrform Supplement from Monday however I've now decided to phase it in over several days. I plucked up courage to make today's food with 10% and I will do the same tomorrow. Monday I will go to 25% .
     
    oliviarussian, Pavonine and Paddypaws like this.
  16. lorilu

    lorilu PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    8,071
    Likes Received:
    7,425
    Thanks dear friend. Jennie's second culture came back negative, I just heard this morning. She is cured of the campylobacter! And as of yesterday has begun to show some very slight improvement. I was afraid to trust what I was seeing yesterday but am feeling more confident about it today.

    Not that she ever acted sick, we all know how subtle cats are but she has an different..air ..about her now that she has not had for some time. She feels better, I can tell.

    I'm going to carry on adding the EZc back to her cooked pork and will probably put her through a course of poop pills to help her gut restore itself before returning to raw for her.
     
    Forester likes this.
  17. lorilu

    lorilu PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    8,071
    Likes Received:
    7,425
    Thanks for the happy update!!!!
     
    Forester likes this.
  18. Forester

    Forester trained by Dylan

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2012
    Messages:
    4,456
    Likes Received:
    5,449
    Fantastic news!!!!!. I hope that this will mark the start of a very rapid recovery.

    Have you mentioned the poop pills to your vet? If so, what did she say? I have to admit that I still have them in mind as a possibility for Dylan at some stage, despite my vet's comments.
     
  19. lorilu

    lorilu PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    8,071
    Likes Received:
    7,425
    I forgot to bring it up during our conversation about the culture results. What did your vet say about this treatment?
     
  20. Forester

    Forester trained by Dylan

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2012
    Messages:
    4,456
    Likes Received:
    5,449
    I'll message you privately. One of his comments was that he considered that, for Dylan, I'd need to give the pills almost continually to maintain their effect.

    Obviously that wouldn't apply to Jennie. His other comment was about cost.
     
    lorilu likes this.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice