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Transitioning a cat with IBD to raw - a diary.

Discussion in 'Cat Health and Nutrition' started by Forester, Jul 17, 2017.


  1. Forester

    Forester trained by Dylan

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    With IBD sadly becoming increasingly common in cats, and raw feeding often recommended as a " solution" I thought it might be useful to create a thread detailing the transition of one IBD sufferer to raw .

    Many longstanding forum members will be aware that my Dylan has IBD. Despite the best efforts of a whole host of vets , including the specialists from Langford, Dylan remains a regular vomiter.

    My vet has approved that I try Dylan with a completely raw diet but I know that this is not going to be a simple transition. After all, nothing with IBD sufferers is ever simple. I plan to detail our progress, and setbacks, in the hope that someone else may be able to learn from our experiences.

    29/5/17
    Dylan is vomiting approximately 3 times weekly. Medication wise he is on 1mg prednisolone twice daily ( he would vomit most days without this ) as well as 5mg cetirizine daily. The cetirizine was instigated , with my vet's approval, because there is some evidence that this can help with eosinophilic inflammation which Dylan has. He also has neutrophilic and lymphoplasmacytic inflammation as well as fibrosis. I'm also giving Dylan 2 capsules per day of http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/sh...otic-balance-ultimate-flora-capsules-60005098. This is recommended on the Raw for IBD Fb site.

    Dylan weighs 4.8kg. He is currently eating James Wellbeloved Lamb pouches so I feel that lamb is probably the best protein to start introducing raw. My logic is that I want to make all changes as gradually as possibly because Dylan reacts badly to any change.

    I start by adding a tiny ( initially approx. 3g ) chunk of raw lamb leg to 2 of Dylan's meals for a couple of days. I then add the chunks to 4 meals before starting to increase the size of the chunks.

    14/6/17
    I've worked Dylan up to eating 15g - 20g lamb leg daily. I know that it is safe to feed up to 15% of his diet " unbalanced". He can eat anything up to 420g wet food in a day but I believe that for his weight a normal raw ration would be approx. 150g. I therefore feel that I can safely go up to approx. 22g per day without needing to add supplements to balance. The level of his vomiting remains the same - 3 times per week.

    15/6/17
    I receive a sample of EZcomplete premix from the USA.
    http://www.foodfurlife.com/store/p3/EZComplete_Fur_Cats_-_130_Servings.html
    This premix has been developed specifically for cats with IBD, although it is appropriate for most cats, and will allow me to increase Dylan's proportion of raw/wet.

    Instructions tell me to mix the premix with the correct amount of meat to make the food complete, and then introduce it very gradually. I therefore drop the amount of raw lamb I'm feeding to 10g per day, then increase very slowly.

    3/7/17
    Dylan's vomiting has increased as I've increased the raw food. He's either been sick, or looked nauseous, 5 times in the last 5 days. I contact the makers of the premix who are the founders of the Raw for IBD Fb group for advice. One of them advises me to change the protein I'm feeding. It seems that lamb, as well as other red meats, is notorious for causing vomiting. I'm advised to use chicken, turkey, rabbit or pork. I feel that it is highly likely that Dylan has a problem with poultry so I choose pork- reducing the quantity back down to approx. 10g daily as this is a new protein and must be introduced slowly.
     
    #1 Forester, Jul 17, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2017
  2. Forester

    Forester trained by Dylan

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    6/7/17
    Dylan is still vomiting daily on JWB lamb plus about 10g raw pork with the EZcomplete premix added. He wasn't this bad before I introduced the premix ( even on lamb) so I guess that the premix must be setting him off. I contact Foodfurlife via the Raw for IBD Fb page and am advised to discontinue the premix for now. We're back to square one. I don't know why I am surprised setbacks like this have happened more times than I care to remember.

    I'm advised to buy collagen and to start Dylan on this. The idea is that it should help to start some healing in his gut. I would have tried him with bone broth, as made by our very own @lorilu but I know that he won't eat it. I've tried in the past and he won't go within 4 feet of it. I order
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Lake...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=8QRKCDZ9HB01ZNA6T4YW
    We continue with JWB lamb plus 10g pork loin.

    13/7/17

    A week has passed since I dropped the premix and have been feeding just JWB lamb and slowly increasing amounts of pork. We're currently at about 15g. Dylan has only been sick twice since 6th July so I'm pretty confident that he was reacting to something in the premix. The collagen arrives, along with mini measuring spoons and a small weight scale. It is looking increasingly as though I might have to make my own raw - feeling somewhat apprehensive as this is my precious boy that I'm experimenting with. There again what choice do I have ? I can't just watch him slowly get worse and do nothing.

    I try Dylan with a tiny amount of the collagen sprinkled onto his wet food. He is not impressed and takes an hour to eat what would usually be snaffled in 20 seconds.
     
  3. urbantigers

    urbantigers PetForums VIP

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    Mosi doesn't get on too well with lamb and I have read that it's maybe not the best one to start with due to it being a ''warm'' meat or something! Can be inflammatory. (May be talking nonsense here!). Mosi does fine on raw turkey and pork with a bit of chicken (he doesn't do chunks and not easy to get chicken mince). I've had another go with lamb now and he seems to be tolerating it, at least well enough to add it now and again for variety.

    Mosi doesn't have diagnosed IBD but he has had digestive problems (diarrhoea rather than vomiting). I add Felini and a small amount of puréed pumpkin once a day.
     
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  4. Pepperpots

    Pepperpots PetForums Senior

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    Mine does best with turkey and pork, with kangaroo for red meat. You can buy ground raw turkey carcasses, from dog food sites, which give you the bone percentage (10% I think) which makes it really easy to calculate the bone they need to have. I just froze it in small 10g balls.

    Mine can't tolerate any premix or ready made raw.
    He can have one brand of cat food - Animonda vom Feinstein for neutered cats, which is just turkey, low fat and low offal. Someone here recommended it and it's been fantastic.

    Good luck!
     
    Forester likes this.
  5. Forester

    Forester trained by Dylan

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    Thanks @urbantigers and @Pepperpots for your suggestions. I'm hopeful that pork may have been a good choice for Dylan. He doesn't tolerate cooked turkey so I felt that it was sensible to avoid this as a first choice protein to feed raw. If I'm honest he hasn't tolerated any cooked protein particularly well. Felini is also definitely out. When I tried him with that it was sprayed across the kitchen.

    I've heard lamb described as a " warm" meat so you are not alone urbantigers. I was told that rabbit is the " coolest" whatever that means.

    Peperpots, may I ask what you include in your pork recipe to make it complete ?

    Does anyone know whether a cat with an issue with eggs can be fed eggshell calcium. I'm not 100% sure that Dylan has a problem with eggs but it is looking a distinct possibility as he couldn't cope with Egg Yolk Lecithin. or the EZcomplete which contains eggs.

    Langford described Dylan as complicated, challenging and confusing. I'm inclined to agree with them.
     
  6. Paddypaws

    Paddypaws PetForums VIP

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    @Forester making home made raw does sound the way to go. Can you get hold of wild rabbit at all as it is supposed to be great for sensitive digestion. Whereabouts are you located?
     
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  7. Pepperpots

    Pepperpots PetForums Senior

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    I had to make homemade, so meant finding bone and offal sources he was ok with. It's more expensive, but Purrform does rabbit liver, kidney and jointed pieces. Might be cheaper to find a local butcher though.

    Fellini also produced impressive projectile vomiting here too!
     
  8. Pepperpots

    Pepperpots PetForums Senior

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    I think rabbit is low in taurine though, so not good for feeding as a solo protein long term without supplements.
     
  9. Forester

    Forester trained by Dylan

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    @Paddypaws. I'm in rural Gloucestershire. I can get hold of wild rabbits although supply is somewhat erratic. I did give raw rabbit for a few days when Dylan was still a kitten although it didn't go well. I suspect that I may have tried to give too much too soon. I also fed cooked wild rabbit in combination with RCSensitivity Control for an experimental ( short term )period a couple of years ago. It was aborted as Dylan became constipated and had to have an enema.

    I am planning to use rabbit as my next protein to introduce raw but , for the moment, I feel that I don't want to make another protein change in such a short period of time.It is only just over 2 weeks since I started introducing the pork . So far I've only built up to giving 23g of that each day.

    @Peperpots, I'm sorry to hear that Felini had the same effect in your household. Was it with Philip?

    I don't have any problem with the cost of Purrform if it suits Dylan . I would give everything I have to find a food that he can eat.

    On the subject of supplements , may I ask you both @Paddypaws , @Peperpots whether you would consider it safe for me to increase Dylan's raw slightly if I was able to include eggshell calcium, heart, liver and kidney ( in the correct proportions of course ) ?. I know that , long term, I need to add numerous other supplements but I'm currently struggling to source them. ( H and B in Gloucester didn't have anything I needed when I visited them this morning :( ). I plan ( hopefully ) to ultimately use the recipe provided on the Raw for IBD website. I was thinking that if I were to add supplements one by one it would be easier to identify anything which causes problems for Dylan.

    19/7/17
    Still vomiting 3 times per week although there has been nothing since 16th. Even a week without vomiting from Dylan can mean nothing though. He can ( regularly :rolleyes: ) throw in a week without vomiting or a week of vomiting every day for no apparent reason.

    On the plus side I've discovered that I can get him to eat the collagen if I sprinkle some of his Bioglan probiotic on top.
     
  10. Paddypaws

    Paddypaws PetForums VIP

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    I am no expert....but do think that it should be fine to feed an un-supplemented diet for quite some time without it being an issue. (especially if you feed the eggshell and organs mentioned) In fact most of the followers of the Cat Crap approach shun all supplements and many raw feeders agree with that stance.
    The Raw feeding for IBD cats is a great group and I am sure they will be able to offer support along the way.
     
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  11. Pepperpots

    Pepperpots PetForums Senior

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    I always fed it unsupplemented. Just made sure I had the correct ratio of bone, kidney, liver and muscle meat. He also tolerated small amounts of fresh sardine. Prawns are also a good source of taurine.

    Paleo Ridge Raw is/was the best website for novel proteins. P was ok with kangaroo, horse, zebra and goat, which are sold in chunks. Although, I think your boy is more sensitive than him, at least at the moment.

    I only introduced new proteins after his stomach had been stable for a good amount of time. Interestingly, it improved a lot after the bone broth, which I made out of duck necks and wings. Would he eat it if you warmed it up, so it was liquid, not jelly? I only made one batch though, as he's pretty stable now.

    Hope he improves soon.
    C x
     
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  12. urbantigers

    urbantigers PetForums VIP

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    When I started Mosi on raw I just gave him plain meat for a while as I wanted to be sure he was ok with the protein without any supplements. Once I knew he was ok with raw turkey mince I started adding stuff.
     
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  13. Forester

    Forester trained by Dylan

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    You're far too modest.:) I'm grateful to make use of your extensive knowledge and experience. If meat,plus organs plus eggshell is good enough for you, on a temporary basis , then it's good enough for me. It means that I can start to increase Dylan's raw already. I've been feeding small amounts for a few weeks now and am keen to get things moving.

    By the way ,what do you feel about the inclusion of digestive enzymes , necessary or not?

    The IBD group are truly wonderful , especially the founders. I gather that they've steered many, many cats through the process of transitioning and feeding raw to IBD sufferers and have a whole host of " workarounds" for use in different situations.

    It is good to know that this approach worked for Mosi.:). I have my fingers crossed that it will also work for Dylan.

    Thank you.:) I'll keep Paleo Ridge Raw in mind when I come to increase Dylan's exposure to different proteins. At the moment I'm just sticking with human grade meat, organic if I can get it. I can always expand what I'm giving at a later date.

    Bone broth has been a complete failure here. I've tried chicken, rabbit and lamb at different times every which way I could think of it. I'm not worrying about it too much now as I'm hopeful that the hydrolysed collagen ,linked to in an earlier post, is going to do the same job. I'm managing to increase the quantity of that now since I started covering it in his probiotics.

    20/7/17

    Dylan left me an unwanted " present" this morning. His first vomit since Sunday. I'm not going to build my hopes up because he's gone three clear days. He will do this regularly then return to more frequent depositions. I am disappointed that the pile contained only food, no hair. I don't think that the hair is going through ( you don't need more details than that :oops:) so I'm guessing that it is going to appear pretty soon.

    I've made up a mini batch of food, without supplements, so will start that later.
     
  14. Pepperpots

    Pepperpots PetForums Senior

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    I never gave probiotics/digestive enzymes as he vomited when I tried him on one. Prokolin didn't seem to help.
     
  15. Pepperpots

    Pepperpots PetForums Senior

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    If he'll tolerate raw egg yolk, it's good for moving hair through in the right direction. :)
     
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  16. Forester

    Forester trained by Dylan

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    I know that the choline in egg yolk is meant to be very good for motility, and therefore excellent for IBD cats who vomit. The Raw for IBD website recommends the use of egg yolk lecithin as well as egg yolk however I'm suspecting that Dylan may currently have an issue with eggs. I tried him with
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Swanson-Yolk-Lecithin-600mg-Capsules/dp/B003OCAZTM


    a short while back. I started with just a few grains a day and gradually built up to about 1/3 capsule. It was disastrous, he vomited every single day including multiple times one day. Did I introduce it too quickly? Was it clearing the hair and would eventually have led to an improvement ? I confess that I didn't wait to find out. I stopped the EYL.

    I am wondering whether he has an issue with eggs. There was egg in the EZcomplete that he didn't get on with. An issue with eggs could also explain why he's done " relatively" well with the JWB lamb . It is egg free as well as grain free although I was not impressed with many of the ingredients.

    21/7/17
    I introduced my meat plus eggshell calcium plus organ mix yesterday. I'd assumed that he would love it as he'd been keen on the plain meat chunks. I was wrong. Sprinkling Bioglan probiotic on it didn't work so I resorted to wafting some Fortiflora in the general direction of the dish. The food was eaten but not with relish.

    In view of yesterday's reluctance to eat the raw mixture I gave Dylan 1/2 a cetirizine this morning instead of 1/4. He has been on 1/2 a tablet in the hope that it would help with the eosinophilic inflammation but I recently lowered the dose to 1/4 after consultation with my vet. The cetirizine had boosted Dylan's appetite so much that he was eating 420g wet plus 20g raw and still sitting by his dish asking for food for much of the day. He put on 400g in 7 weeks after starting the cetirizine. The weight gain was much needed but his appetite was escalating completely out of control. I was worried that the very rapid weight gain would not be good for his liver. My vet was concerned that such huge food consumption had nowhere to go but straight back out where it came from, as well as indicating that he can't be utilising his food at all well. His poo is normal . He has never had dire rear.

    Dylan scoffed his breakfast then asked for more a short time later. I re fed which was probably a mistake. It reappeared on the cream bedroom carpet. I'm going back to 1/4 tablet tomorrow. At least the cetirizine has prompted Dilly to eat the meat plus organ mix.

    Clean up, forget it and carry on is my new motto!
     
  17. lorilu

    lorilu PetForums VIP

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    Yep, we learn with every step. I've done that too. She'll insist she's still hungry, and even now though I know more is likely to push her over the top, sometimes I still do fall for it, though I've gotten better. And then kicking myself for not leaving it where it was(first meal staying down-don't give any more!)

    It is very important for our own mental health to just "clean up and carry on". Hard work to get there, but it helps when you do.
     
  18. Pepperpots

    Pepperpots PetForums Senior

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    Sorry you're having so many issues. I suspect the fur ball thing will improve with better gut motability.
    When P was at his worst, I gave him a tablespoon of food an hour. Then decreased number of meals gradually. He still has four small meals a day, as if I feed him more, we get the dire rear.
    I also set a automatic feeder (with cooling pack) to go off in the middle of the night, as he is worse with an empty stomach.
    Think he must have scavenged something yesterday, as he had violent diahorreah at 2 am. Cats!
     
  19. Pepperpots

    Pepperpots PetForums Senior

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    You have better luck with Fortiflora than me. A tiny pinch caused the most spectacular projectile vomiting. My bedroom carpet may never recover!
     
  20. Paddypaws

    Paddypaws PetForums VIP

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    @Forester, I think the general opinion of Digestive enzymes is a positive one but of course it is another supplement to research and source, then introduce gradually.
    If you are following the Raw IBD group have you not considered the 'poop pills' on offer? I linked to them on here a few times as many of the users report great results.
     
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