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Toilet Training

Discussion in 'Dog Training and Behaviour' started by vicki.burns, Apr 28, 2011.


  1. vicki.burns

    vicki.burns PetForums Senior

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    Averagely speaking, at what age should a dog be fully toilet trained??

    I only ask, as we left Linc alone for about and hour and a half to two hours this morning and he still managed to poo in the kitchen...

    He's 17 weeks now and I'm not sure if we're behind schedule with this...


    Should we be telling him off for toileting in the house when we're not there? Also, it's not always poo's can be wee's too.....
     
  2. DirtyGertie

    DirtyGertie PetForums VIP

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    Why would you tell him off if he toilets when you're not there? Firstly, dogs live in the moment and if you tell him off for something he did maybe an hour ago he wont understand. He'll probably think you're telling him off for greeting you when you come back. Secondly, if he has to go, he has to go and if you're not there to let him out what choice does he have? At that age he can't hold it for very long.

    I don't think there's an average age, it depends on the individual dog, how quickly he picks up the training and what breed he is.

    We'd heard that Bichons are notoriously difficult to toilet train. We bought our 9 week old Bichon home and that very day, for some reason, she decided to adopt the cat litter tray (never used by the cat, by the way, but down just in case she's caught short while we're out). We were gobsmacked to say the least. She continued to use the litter tray so this was gradually moved to the door then to outside and it didn't take her long to ask to go out, probably only a couple of weeks. During the night she was crated and very rarely was there even an accident in the crate, she managed to hold it for an incredibly long time overnight very early.

    My son has Poppy's litter sister and, bearing in mind they're now 11 months old, she has only ever used puppy pads and still does to this day. She never goes to the toilet when she's taken out with their older dog who does toilet on walks.

    Any little accidents - wees from excitement when someone came - were just mopped up without comment.

    If you leave your dog, perhaps crate him while you're out and this may help. And make sure he has the opportunity to toilet before you go. But please don't tell him off for doing it. Many years ago it was common to rub a dog's nose in it, thank god that's a thing of the past.
     
  3. vicki.burns

    vicki.burns PetForums Senior

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    Thanks, the rubbing the nose it was my Mums method she adopted years ago for her pup and she's amazing with her toilet business. I only asked about telling him off as just a general question as I wasn't too sure...

    And with regards to the crating... I just don't agree with it, I know a lot of people do it, but it's just something I can't do, don't know why just doesn't feel right to me
     
  4. DirtyGertie

    DirtyGertie PetForums VIP

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    We only used the crate at bed time, purely because we didn't want her destroying any furniture if she felt the need to chew (puppy teething, if we weren't around to offer her something else). The door was left open during the day time and she would sometimes go in there for a nap of her own accord and the door never closed then. We regarded it as her den, her safe place. It was covered on three sides and the top with a blanket and if she was in there she wasn't to be disturbed. There were a couple of crates at the breeder's house where we got her from so it wasn't a new thing for her.

    At about six months old she started barking one night, kind of a distressed bark, I came down to see if there was anything wrong, she settled in her donut bed that's also in the sun room where she sleeps and I went back to bed. I left the crate open in case she wanted to go back in of her own accord. She stayed in the donut and has slept there ever since, so she seemed to be telling us she'd had enough of the crate and we could trust her now. Not quite, she has gnawed at a couple of the conservatory chairs which I'm not happy about but I spray them with bitter apple spray now and there's been no more since.

    Using a crate or not is up to the individual, I only referred to it as her bedroom, it wasn't used for toilet training and she was never locked in it during the daytime and it was never meant to be a permanent thing. We just found it useful during the early puppy phase. I still keep it in the sun room now, Poppy goes in on the odd occasion but I more often find the cat in there :lol:.
     
  5. vicki.burns

    vicki.burns PetForums Senior

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    He's normally really good when we leave him other than his toiletting but hopefully that will come in time, the only one thing he does that really gets on my t.ts is he gets his nose between the back rest cushions on the back of the sofa a pulls them off, they're only velcro'd on so it's easy for him to do but it is irritating, you come home and the sofa's are backless!!!!
     
  6. leashedForLife

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    U make it sound as if he did it on purpose. :( he did not - he's an infant, about the equivalent of a 12-MO baby.

    * was he pottied before U left? did he stool on getting up & out?

    * i noticed on the other thread U are using PAPERS - these encourage him to think indoors is OK, they confuse the issue.

    * please see the potty-training sticky for loads of links & tips, including 2 FREE Books to download.
    there is no 'schedule' - just as children vary in potty-training, so do pups. generally they are clean & dry
    overnight around 15 to 20-weeks or so, & clean & dry during daytime by about 6 to 9-MO.


    NO - in fact, anything that U do not witness cannot be interrupted OR punished / scolded.
    since U cannot know if it ws done 5 mins ago or 5 hours ago, there is no point in scolding - and it will only
    damage his trust in U; he will conclude that humans are crazy, they are friendly one minute, & the next angry,
    shouting & scolding. If U don't SEE it happen, skip it; if U DO see it happening, interrupt gently - clap hands,
    bend over & call him, etc.
     
  7. leashedForLife

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    why does an un-housetrained pup have access to the whole house... or at least,
    the whole ground floor?...

    i'd at minimum baby-gate the kitchen, but preferably i'd be crating him with a chew-toy & a 'pacifier' while out -
    a stuffed & frozen Kong with part of a meal in it works well.

    please see the sticky for lots of management & training ideas. :thumbup:
     
  8. vicki.burns

    vicki.burns PetForums Senior

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    Okay, so to get rid of the paper, if he does anything while out just ignore and clean it up, the reason I said, still managed to do it was because he wee'd and poo'd when we let him out minutes before we left the house. His food must travel through his bowels pretty quick if he can do another within the space of two hours that's all I was thinking!
     
  9. McKenzie

    McKenzie PetForums VIP

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    McKenzie was quite slow to toilet train, for a whole host of reasons. She was about 90% there at 6 months. She's now 8 months and there is still the odd occasion where she's had an accident, but I consider her fully toilet trained.
     
  10. vicki.burns

    vicki.burns PetForums Senior

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    Of course he can get to the sofa, he has the front room and kitchen, gating him or shutting him away is not an option to me, I refuse to do it, personal opinion and all.

    He likes the sofa because he can sleep/sit/lay and watch people and traffic go by through the window.
     
  11. vicki.burns

    vicki.burns PetForums Senior

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    Thanks, that's exactly what I'm after :) basically still got a while to go, and reading what other people have put he's well on track for 17 weeks :)

    Thank you :)
     
  12. Dogless

    Dogless PetForums VIP

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    Maybe some of the toiletting is due to anxiety; I believe that anxiety can be increased when a pup is left in a large space, as opposed to a smaller one as they feel insecure. However if you really do not want to confine your puppy then that is obviously a personal choice.
     
  13. leashedForLife

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    then don't blame the puppy for errors - U are setting him up to fail, & punishing him for preventable
    & inevitable mistakes, since he is unsupervised & can go anywhere in that area, while no one is monitoring him. :(

    any mistakes made by a dog during housetraining are the adult human's fault -
    not the pup's; but i don't see U rolling up a newspaper & hitting Urself over the head.
    poor puppy... :(
     
  14. vicki.burns

    vicki.burns PetForums Senior

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    We have both had family dogs in the past and none have ever been crated and have all turned out to be fantastic little pooches, hence why we don't want to crate him, he is limited as to where he can go, Front Room and Kitchen.

    I think over time he will get better, like I said he's only 17 weeks, I wasn't using a toilet at 17 weeks was I, and when I needed to go I needed to go!
     
  15. vicki.burns

    vicki.burns PetForums Senior

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    Who said I'm punishing him?!?!?

    I asked the question should I be.

    Not once have I mentioned that I hit, beat or punish my dog.
     
  16. leashedForLife

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    i did not say U beat him - U stated that rubbing a pup's nose in stool or pee was Ur parent's method, i think?
    that is also punishing -
    so is a verbal scolding; nobody has to be hit for punishment to take place. good luck.
     
  17. vicki.burns

    vicki.burns PetForums Senior

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    Yes exactly that... My parents method for their dog which is now 8 years old so... 8 years ago. Nout to do with how I treat and teach my boy.
     
  18. tripod

    tripod PetForums VIP

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    Hi Vicki,

    The mantra for toilet training is Management and Supervision - this is the way to get it done with minimal distress and fuss for all involved.

    Having an untrained dog allowed access to stimuli that elicit undesirable behaviour is very confusing for the dog, thus quite possibly contributing to stress that may even worsen toileting behaviour! This is why most humane toilet training regimes involve some confinement so that the dog isn't exposed to toileting situations that are not allowed.

    Toilet training success varies greatly with breed/type, lifestyle, toileting and training history and human's ability to manage and supervise.

    If you are not willing to confine your dog it will likely take your dog a little longer to learn and to avoid accidents. It will mean more work for you or other humans in the house by way of supervision and getting him outside to an appropriate toileting area.

    Teaching him a mat behaviour to help keeping him in one place during training may also be acceptable.

    Get rid of indoor toilets, bring him for VERY regular breaks, reward with high value food for toileting appropriately, and never end the fun after appropriate toileting.
    Make sure to clean up accidents carefully with bio washing powder in water to remove smells that encourage re-marking.
    Learn his early warning signs (sniffing, circling etc.) and interrupt by bringing him outside quickly.
    Have him drag a line (only when supervised) so that you can manage a little more effectively.
     
  19. Dogless

    Dogless PetForums VIP

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    No I suspect you weren't using a toilet at 17 weeks; but equally I suspect you are not a dog. I was only giving an opinion so not sure why so defensive as you had asked for people's advice.

    Our family dogs were never crated, but I am glad that Kilo is. He has only had two accidents in the house and been totally house trained since 11 weeks old. I suspect that 70% of that is sheer luck and I thank the crate and constant supervision for the other 30%.
     
  20. vicki.burns

    vicki.burns PetForums Senior

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    Thank you I appreciate the advice, I know my way will take a little longer, but considering what other people have said I think he's actually doing well for his age, if we're looking at around 6months to be fully toilet trained I'd say we're well on track :)
     
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