[IncaThePup]

sorry..couldn't resist that title! :laugh:

So if considering going with my dream dog - pedigree Border Collie Male.

My only worry choosing a male was dog aggression with other males outside out of our home. I don't want to be left in a situation going along in my chair when I have my (then adult sized male) trying to go for or retaliate to another male dog when I also have my elderly female dog walking on the same side (need other hand to steer chair). This would be my worst nightmare scenario :yikes:

From experience with parents dogs both male and entire, they were 'keen' towards other dogs. we had some scary walks sometimes till we got him under control but I was then fully mobile and able to hold him back.

My question is... if I get my dog neutered young will other entire males still see him as a 'puppy' and not bother him?

Inca had been spayed young (around 4 and half months) before her first season and stayed very puppy like for years.. maybe that's why she got on ok with my friends Hearing Dog who was selected as a puppy and also spayed at a young age? I know Assistance dogs often are neutered young, both male and female. They don't seem to have any ill health effects like obvious stunted growth and the males often seem very gentle and much calmer than our two were at home around other dogs.

What are people's views on a good age for this? as there's no risk to him getting pregnant! I heard some people wait till as long 12 months old? what would be the youngest viable age? ... should I wait until sexual maturity (what age will that be in a BC?) starts in him or get it done just before?

Thanks

Leigh

 

[Dober]

If you use the 'search' box at the top of the page you will see this has been spoken about lots before, and there are lots of different opinions and you need to go with how you feel and what's best for you.

I am pro speutering, but I will say same sex aggression tends not to be solved by neutering. Collies arnt a breed especially prone to same sex aggression anyway, but most of the it's in the breeding.

I would neuter at 18 months.

 

[BumbleFluff]

I dont see why a dog would have aggression if they have been socialised properly. If youre getting a puppy, make sure he meets plenty of friendly dogs to reduce the chances of him getting funny with dogs in the future.
I personally wouldnt neuter a dog until they are fully matured and fully grown, as neutoring early can cause all sorts of health problems. This could be as old as 2, maybe 3 years old! I own bitches so i dont know exactly what problems this includes, im sure someone else will be along to help.

 

[Sarah1983]

Not noticed any difference between my neutered and intact males in terms of aggression, I think in most cases it's more down to experiences and the individual dogs temperament than whether or not they've had their furry plums cut off.

I'm not anti neutering but I certainly wouldn't do it before full maturity. This might be worth a read
http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

and

http://www.caninesports.com/SNBehaviorBoneDataSnapShot.pdf (may have to refresh to get that to work, for some reason it's the only way I can load it)

 

[pogo]

I'm a not neuterer but neutering wouldn't solve dog aggression necessarily.

My staff is entire and we've never had any aggression problems either from him or much towards him.

 

[IncaThePup]

what about him living with female dog? She would be 12-13yrs depending how long took me to find one (and for him to reach that age).. would that be enough of an age difference that he wouldn't bother her even if stayed 'entire'? .. running off at sniff of a female (not great for an assistance dog, probably why they do theirs early!)

What about the cancer risk? Having lost several (human) family members with cancer I'd rather eliminate the risk altogether in my furbabies whereever possible.

Any effects worse than cancer from having it done before he reached sexual maturity?

I'll read the long article later I have to nip out somewhere in a minute.

Thanks

 

[Helbo]

Charlie is entire and I've not had any problems with humping, aggression or anything like that.

 

[toffee44]

All my boys are done, and I cant say hasn't helped towards aggression that much. Other than they are more talk than bite. We now seperate Buster and Dylan at night because Dylan kept guarding the bed, even though there are two, from Buster and all we heard was barking and sometimes a small scrap. So Buster now gets the sofa instead while the two boys get locked in the utility room. Buster neutered at 5yo and Dylan 15months. Dylan is a very dominant dog, and so it Buster which is the problem.

I wouldn't neuter under 1yo in larger breeds (20kg + is large breed in my books).

 

[terencesmum]

It is also worth baring in mind that early neutering actually increases the risk of aggression in dogs.
My dog is 17 months old, entire and never had any aggression issues with him.

 

[Sarah1983]

what about him living with female dog? She would be 12-13yrs depending how long took me to find one (and for him to reach that age).. would that be enough of an age difference that he wouldn't bother her even if stayed 'entire'? .. running off at sniff of a female (not great for an assistance dog, probably why they do theirs early!)

What about the cancer risk? Having lost several (human) family members with cancer I'd rather eliminate the risk altogether in my furbabies whereever possible.

Any effects worse than cancer from having it done before he reached sexual maturity?

I'll read the long article later I have to nip out somewhere in a minute.

Thanks

If your female is spayed then I don't see why he would bother her regardless of age difference. Entire males are not all sex mad beasts who'll hump anything that doesn't move quickly enough In fact the majority of intact mature males I know are more chilled out and less inclined to hump than the neutered ones. All mine have tried it with other dogs during adolescence but either training or maturity or probably a bit of both has stopped it.

Cancer risk...depends on the cancer. Obviously by neutering you'll eliminate the risk of testicular cancer but studies show that it can increase the chances of other types of cancer.

 

[IncaThePup]

Yes I've been reading the pdf's that Sarah1983 posted (only first few pages of the 12 page one) but from the gist of them it seems nervous aggression behaviour is actually higher in both neutured males and females.

Also says only less than 1% chance of testicular cancer in older dogs and they are treatable cos of slow rate it happens (can't remember how to spell the technical word for cancer cells reproducing). I'll read the entire thing tonight gonna download it onto iBooks to read though it properly.

It's interesting reading thanks. I wish I'd know the problems it caused before I got Inca spayed it explains alot of the issues I've had with her! unfortunately I didn't have internet then, a friend had a hearing dog she said were spayed early and she seemed perfectly fine and well behaved, so that' all i had to go on and the memory that our family male dogs were quite 'keen' towards other dogs.

Just one question .. about all the things the 12 page article (1st pdf sarah mentioned) .. page 2 I think. lists higher risks of when spayed/neutured... does this only apply when they are neutured too early? .. or would he still have same level of risk of those later in life if I waited until he was 2-3yrs old then did it to just eliminate the possibility of testicular cancer later?

Would I be better leaving his 'furry plums' alone and maybe just inspecting them regularly to check for lumps.. only removing if signs of cancer were actually found later in life?.. or would it be too late to save him by then?