The Puppy Buyers responsibilities?

Discussion in 'Dog Breeding' started by swarthy, May 29, 2010.


  1. leashedForLife

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Messages:
    18,962
    Likes Received:
    3,332
    Home - cdtclubuk.org
    The Coton Club is having their annual general-meeting on the 13th April.


    Maltese Club - Founded 1934

    U can contact breeders in both clubs directly, to ask if they know of anyone with a retired bitch
    or stud to place, or a pup who's disappointed the breeder as they grew-out.


    there are also national & regional breed-rescues. :)
     
  2. leashedForLife

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Messages:
    18,962
    Likes Received:
    3,332
    Maltese Club Welfare and Rescue
    Mrs V Blore, Aintree, Liverpool. Tel: 0151 525 6470
    Carol Hemsley, Chobham, Surrey. Tel: 01276 857786



    DogPages does not list rescues for the Coton breed.
     
  3. hball

    hball PetForums Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2013
    Messages:
    153
    Likes Received:
    3
    i understand what your saying i do! but i dont think i could walk away from a sick helpless pup i know that i could help. but i would be damn sure i would call animal welfare and get them shut down!
     
  4. hball

    hball PetForums Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2013
    Messages:
    153
    Likes Received:
    3
    my question is why is it that the only good reason to bread is to show /work etc. i don't bread my dogs and all but 1 is pure blooded and all were rescues. my pug was doped off here, my papered vet checked intact bitch an american bulldog i got free because the owner didn't have time for her. and my 4 lb chi was in a pound! so when i hear the comment before that mix breeds are given up more than pure blood is not true. i would say its @ the same. why is there so many rescues for pure blood dogs. by no means am i for the shi$$y byb. but tbh there is nothing wrong with a "mutt" had them growing up lived long happy healthy life some of the best dogs i have ever had. not trying to start anything but i get mad when people say that a papered dog is better than a non papered one sorry.
     
    #104 hball, Apr 29, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013
  5. leashedForLife

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Messages:
    18,962
    Likes Received:
    3,332
    because those 2 purposes are the primary reasons that ethical breeders, breed.

    UNethical breeders are in it for money; They breed the current designer-cross, long-time pet mixes
    [Cock-a-poo from the 1950s, anyone?], the "teacup" something, the "Giant" something, etc.
    They breed "rare" & charge extra - blue Pits, blue Dobes, merle Chis [an outcross], etc.

    ethical breeders want predictable: size, skill set, coat, temp, structure, flaws.

    UNethical breeders want novelty & sale-ability: Does the pup have appealing markings, cute face, color,
    chrome [white blaze / bib / legs...], eye appeal, soft coat / other?...

    3rd group:
    idiots breed for lots of lousy reasons: "for the kids", thinking it will 'settle' their bitch, who knows?
    They aren't ethical, but they have motives other than profit - altho those motives don't justify a litter.
    :thumbdown:
    just an aside, but why is the Am-Bull intact? :confused:
    How old is she?

    desex before her first-estrus eliminates the risk of mammary cancer almost to nil - more than 99.99%.

    the longer she's intact, & the more heats she goes thru, the faster her risk of mammary & other estrogenic
    cancers, rises; 'breast cancer' in female-dogs is over 4x as common as it is in female-humans.

    2nd, U said all but one dog is 'purebred' - are the Chi & Pug registered?
    if not, U can say that they're 'type', but not state that they are purebred - it's not documented. :eek:
    U could, in the USA, register them as ILP / indefinite listing privilege, with the AKC or UKC;
    they can't be bred to produce registered pups, but could compete in activities just as purebreds do
    [agility, etc ] - anything but the breed-ring.

    mixed [cross or random] breeds can also compete in various activities: dog sports are competency,
    by & large. That said, if U want to compete in a herding trial, don't show up with a pit-cross, :lol: -
    there are limits, even tho a team of Std Poodles has raced in the Iditarod already. :thumbup:
    When i was a kid, purebreds were rare & mostly well-off ppl owned them. Cross-bred or random-bred
    were much-more common, & "unfancy" breeds were more likely to belong to blue-collar folks - hounds,
    terrier-mixes, hunting breeds, & so on.

    Today, purebreds are far-more common than before - but about 60% of the shelter-popn in the USA
    is pit-types [no papers, but type] & pit-mixes: Lab-x, Boxer-x, whatever.

    Over the years, dogs have gotten bigger, too; in the 1960s, the average pet-dog weighed about 30#;
    terriers & their mixes were common. Shih-Tzu & other coated breeds were rare; TOYS were very rare.

    Today, the average pet-dog is Lab-sized [may not BE a Lab, but weighs about 60#], & toys are common -
    not as common as Labs, but far-more than 50-years ago.

    LA, Calif, sees a huge glut of discarded toy-breeds in their shelters; trends & fads. :nonod: UNethical breeders
    are the supply-line for these fashions in dogs. [LA now 'exports' toy-dogs to other out-of-state shelters,
    where they are in demand - so that they don't needlessly kill healthy young dogs whose only fault is local
    low-demand / a saturated market].

    RESEARCH:
    studies have shown many times that what we INVEST in a pet, influences how we value that pet;

    ppl who buy a purebred pup & spend a significant amount for a registered pup, no matter the quality
    [petshop puppy-mill overpriced poor-quality, BYB registered mediocre quality, ethical breeder with
    gene-screened sire & dam & excellent quality...] will be LESS likely to give that dog up, even with some
    serious reason to do so [chronic health issues, human injury / lost job / other personal reason, major
    problem-behavior in the dog, ____ ].

    if the pup was given away or very cheap, the owner is less-likely to persist in keeping that pup,
    all else being equal: the attachment is more easily broken. Shelter-adoptees, parking-lot puppies, the pup
    from the neighbor's 'accidental' litter, etc, are more likely to be given away, surrendered to a shelter or
    rescue, or re-homed [to friends, relatives, neighbors or total strangers via an ad].
    b/c humans have favorites - & they 'adopt' their favorite breed as a charitable action.

    they love THEIR [BC, Chi, Rott, Setter, ___ ], & want to help other dogs of that breed.

    random-breds still have their own rescues - there are LOADS of dog-rescues in the USA that aren't
    breed-specific, but take all dogs -- or who specialize: senior dogs, bully-breeds, giant-breeds, etc.
    there are times when a purebred IS better than any random-bred: When U want a predictable type,
    or a specific skill-set. If i want a herding dog, i'm not going to adopt a shelter mutt & hope that dog can
    learn to move sheep, cut out a specific individual, heel cattle, chase geese away from a golf-course, etc.

    if i want an SD for a handicapped person, i can choose any dog whose size, coat, temp, etc, plus their
    physical abilities & structure, are fit for the job. Breed doesn't matter; competency does.


    if i just want a loving pet, i can choose my color, size, coat, temp, activity level, face-shape...
    anything, breed, cross-breed, or unknown blend.

    if i want an arson-dog, any dog with a good NOSE is great - but if that dog also needs to take down
    possible criminals [many cop-k9s must be dual use], i can't use a Bloodhound; they won't barrel
    after a suspected burglar or robber who's fleeing, & bite hard enuf to take the person down.

    BTW, mixed-breeds can have virtually any illness known to a pure breed; the geneticist Padgett quoted
    statistics which indicate that EVERY dog in the USA, no matter what breed or mix, carries an average of 5
    "bad" / heritable genes; the trick when we breed is not to double-up on them, which requires that we know
    WHAT our dog carries as genes: are they a carrier of X, or clear? Will this dog be affected, or not?...

    that means tests, which aren't cheap; very few owners of cross-bred or random-bred dogs are willing
    to invest in testing their dog, both M & F, before they breed for a litter.

    Structure is heritable; TEMP is very heritable. Fearful or shy dogs should never, ever be bred -
    no matter how perfect, beautiful, beloved. :nonod: Sociability & stranger-distrust are also highly heritable -
    guard-breeds are paranoid adults, but start as the same trusting, affectionate pups as any other type.

    we must choose carefully to shape the dogs we want - no matter what breed, cross, or random-genes.
     
  6. hball

    hball PetForums Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2013
    Messages:
    153
    Likes Received:
    3
    i dont know how to quote a part of a post :eek: sorry i understand the fact of needing a certain breed for work or show. my bitch is intact as i was going to breed her but decided not to. am waiting on her appt to get her fixed :) i know the risk of not having her done.
    yes she the pug and chi all papered. i have no interest in showing them. My chi would have been awesome! just saying, i have them not for any reason but that i love them. I just think it sounded that from the breeders other dogs are no good.... as they r mixed. i hope that is not the case :(.
     
  7. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2009
    Messages:
    21,576
    Likes Received:
    657
    The problem is, how do you know that the dogs your girl is from are of good *quality*? And how do you know she's inherited good qualities?

    There are four main reasons for breeding for me, health, temperament, conformation, and ability. The latter is not always something you can take into account, but should be there for working breeds, such as gundogs.
     
  8. leashedForLife

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Messages:
    18,962
    Likes Received:
    3,332
    hit QUOTE [button].

    Decide what parts U want to reply to; to move a line down the page, put the cursor
    where U want to start that next line, click SHIFT & while holding it, click RETURN / Enter.

    to erase parts U don't want, put the cursor at the beginning of the section U want to delete;
    highlight [click & sweep the cursor across the page] - the highlighted parts turn blue.
    Click DELETE - the blue parts disappear.

    to break the whole post into pieces & reply to each piece [or skip bits]:
    Copy & past [/quote] anywhere U want to "end" a quoted segment. Reply in the part after [/quote].

    Don't forget to insert
     
  9. hball

    hball PetForums Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2013
    Messages:
    153
    Likes Received:
    3
    I know because I know the breeder and about the line. Had my.girl tested..... etc and good exp of her breed.
    BUT I am NOT breeding her. If something happened to her I would be lost! And just not worth it for me .. shes like my child:)
     
  10. hball

    hball PetForums Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2013
    Messages:
    153
    Likes Received:
    3
    shows can be fun - so can dog-sports. Rally-O is GREAT, i think - lots of fun, happy activity,
    any breed or mix, speed isn't crucial.
    I would think about this with my American bulldog. She is fast! And very smart!:D
    i don't think it is, generally speaking - there ARE breeders who think that purebreds are 'better',
    but heck, some owners think that everyone should have a Turkey Hound, which is ludicrous -
    dogs are widely varied b/c human preferences are wildly as:Dsorted. :D[/QUOTE]
     
  11. hball

    hball PetForums Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2013
    Messages:
    153
    Likes Received:
    3
    The only bad habit she has is.... she loves to eat my shoes!!!! 3 pairs of flip flops and 2 pairs of Nikes :rolleyes:
     
  12. leashedForLife

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Messages:
    18,962
    Likes Received:
    3,332
    closets are Ur friends. :thumbsup: Or shelves... :laugh:
     
  13. hball

    hball PetForums Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2013
    Messages:
    153
    Likes Received:
    3
    Soooo true!
     
  14. hball

    hball PetForums Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2013
    Messages:
    153
    Likes Received:
    3
    She was able to go in my bedroom when we left unroll I came home to my pillow and blanket all over the house:thumbdown:
     
  15. ruwise

    ruwise PetForums Senior

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    107
    Thanks for this thread. As somebody who is looking to buy a puppy I am very appreciative of it. I have already cancelled an appointment to view some pups because I just had a bad feeling about them. They took reservations and deposits off people based on photos taken at 2 weeks old. I refused to do this and said I wanted to meet them, see the parents and pick a pup based on personality and not just looks.

    I just want a pet but I want to know that it is a pup that has been looked after and treated well. It's going to be the first dog I've had as an adult and I have lots of friends who have young kids so I think it is important that I know that it's come from a good breeder, is healthy and has not been mistreated in any way. I've been awake at night worrying about this. I take my responsibility very seriously. I just wish there weren't so many dodgy breeders out there. How anyone can sleep at night if they are mistreating animals I just do not know. When I had my concerns about the breeder I had been in contact it kept me awake at night. Even now I wonder if I have any way od checking that the dogs are all ok and are being treated ok.
     
  16. MerlinsMum

    MerlinsMum PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Messages:
    8,189
    Likes Received:
    743
    The very best breeders will match the pup's personality to YOU.... and this means breeders who have owned the breed for many years, and understand their lines - and who also take time to interview you, to find out what pup in their litters will fit in the best.

    That doesn't happen with backyard/pet home breeders who may be having a litter "just because" from their beloved pet - and also won't be an option from the breeders who churn out puppies in great numbers all year round.

    It's very refreshing to hear from someone who understands about matching the right puppy to the right home. Far too often people think they are getting some kind of a bonus to have "pick of the litter" when in fact they could easily end up with the wrong puppy that way. Breeders who KNOW their lines and their puppies will be much better placed to match the right personality to your needs.
     
  17. ruwise

    ruwise PetForums Senior

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    107
    I was actually concerned it might be a puppy farm the first question I was asked (all by e-mail) was what colour I preferred. I volunteered some personal information to demonstrate I was a suitable pet owner but not convinced I would have been asked and it looks like they had about 5 or 6 litters of pups at different stages of development. I just didn't think they could possibly be socialised well enough. I actually tweeted CARIAD to ask what constituted a puppy farm but never heard back.

    They admitted that they often had no contact with the people buying their pups until they came to pick them up. The whole thing made me so uneasy. I just can't believe people are willing to pay for a dog they haven't even met on the back of a photograph of a pup that hasn't even opened it's eyes yet. I'm still worrying about the poor pups. I just hope they end up with good homes but if they do it will be more luck than judgement on the breeders part.
     
  18. DecantPet

    DecantPet PetForums Junior

    Joined:
    May 15, 2015
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    24
    So, you said that we should be careful with breeders "selling males, females, or different colour pups for different prices". What is wrong with this?
     
  19. Meezey

    Meezey Slave to the Black & Tans and the Trundle Bugs.

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2013
    Messages:
    13,346
    Likes Received:
    9,694
    Because with different colours they are usually breed just for colour ( with very little regard for anything else) and are sold for stupid money based on a "rare" colour, such as blue staffs and Frenchies.. Male and Females there should be no difference in price, those that do charge a difference usually say it's because of being able to make money from a bitch, why would you pay more for the pups when they would have all received the same care and upbringing?
     
    ouesi and simplysardonic like this.
  20. rocco33

    rocco33 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    5,431
    Likes Received:
    742
    Because it is purely profit driven, there is no other reason for charging different prices for different sexes or colours. They all cost the same to raise. Why would a female puppy in a litter cost more to raise than a male. And why would a yellow cost more that it's black sibling?
     
    ouesi and simplysardonic like this.