The Puppy Buyers responsibilities?

Discussion in 'Dog Breeding' started by swarthy, May 29, 2010.


  1. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2010
    Messages:
    5,742
    Likes Received:
    280
    We see many posts about breeders and their responsibilities, but a few posts of late have made me think more about the puppy buyers responsibilities.

    If someone wants to buy a pedigree pup - PLEASE do your research - the internet offers a wealth of information these days on essential and recommended tests.

    It is - I understand - very difficult to walk away from a litter - so call ahead and ensure that as an absolute minimum, the recommended health tests have been done, if they haven't don't go.

    Stories such as "oh dad has been hipscored" and "mum is healthy so we didn't bother" can hide much more sinister facts, like - we took mum for hipscoring, but the plates were horrendous so we didn't submit them and decided to play the role of the 'naive breeder' instead.

    BEWARE of any breeder selling males, females, or different colour pups for different prices.

    BEWARE of any breeder adding a premium for KC regstration - it costs just TWELVE pounds to register a pup, and is probably the cheapest element of the whole breeding process.

    =============================

    If you get the information you require when you phone and then go and visit the litter - please ensure you

    * see proof of all health tests discussed (part of your research to know what should be done beforehand)

    * ask the breeder lots of questions - a good breeder will be happy to answer any queries you have

    * expect to be asked just as many questions as you have asked yourself. The breeder should be just as concerned that you are the right home for their pup as you are that they are a good breeder!


    =============================

    If you want a cross breed or you are truly not concerned about the background of the pup - then your first port of call should be rescue. I appreciate that rescues aren't for everyone, after two years of trawling the rescues for a dog, we realised that my daughter's fear of grown dogs wasn't going to go away any time soon, (now she isn't afraid of any dog - good job when I have 6 of them :eek:)

    ========================

    All too often I hear people say, someone has to give these pups a home - and yes, I understand it isn't their fault they've been put on this earth, but for every breeder who had to give their pups away to rescue because they cannot find homes, will be one more breeder who will think twice before they do it again - and then these pups can be found homes responsibly.

    I understand this will put more pressure on rescues initially, but long term, it just MIGHT help reduce the pressure.

    A large percentage of people who buy deliberate cross-breeds and dogs from un health tested parents, give them away at the first sign of trouble - because such breeders are unlikely to have the courage of their convictions to accept that an owner is unsuitable for one of their pups - all they want to do is sell them :(

    =====================

    We hear a lot of talk about stopping Back yard Breeders and Puppy Farmers - but people don't seem to understand that the only person who can do something about it is YOU the puppy buying public -by doing your research and having the courage to say no.

    A breeder that health tests doesn't make them good - if you are unhappy with ANY element of the litter or their environment - WALK AWAY.
     
    #1 swarthy, May 29, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2010
  2. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2009
    Messages:
    21,576
    Likes Received:
    657
    Completely agree, there's no excuse for ignorance or cutting corners when it comes to buying a dog or pup, if you can't afford a responsibly bred pup, save up. While anyone is willing to buy a pup from someone who cuts corners, from those who just don't bother to health test, to the other end of the stick, puppy farmers who keep their animals in awful conditions, the rescue problem will just get worse. For me, the responsibility for good healthy animals in good homes lies firmly at the doors of both breeder and buyer.
     
  3. Shamen

    Shamen Guest

    Great thread, with all the info available now the gp should educate themselves and buy only from a responsible breeder who kc registers the pups and does all available health tests for the breed and only from someone who is trying to improve on the dogs they have and dosent breed often.

    its the only way to stamp out poor breeding practices.
     
  4. rocco33

    rocco33 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    5,431
    Likes Received:
    742
    Great post Swarthy and I totally agree. Sorry if it seems harsh, but puppy buyers are just as responsible and as much as fault as these byb and puppy farms.
     
  5. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2010
    Messages:
    5,742
    Likes Received:
    280
    Thanks to all three of you - the silence on this thread is interesting in itself :eek:
     
  6. Freyja

    Freyja PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2008
    Messages:
    10,090
    Likes Received:
    570
    As you know I will soon be getting and italian greyhound puppy. We have been looking at the breed and finding out about them for about 4 years now. We are lucky in the fact that we * borrowed* and iggie for 6 weeks a couple of years ago. My friends stud dog came to stay with us for 6 weeks as her bitches were in season and he wouldclimb a 6ft fence to get to the bitches.

    My son also handled her dog at shows and spent 3 weeks of the summer holidays helping to look after and show her dogs. It is a breed I would never be able to afford to buy although would always have loved to own and know many people in the breed. The only reason we are now going to have the pleasure of owning one of them is because my friend is giving us Willow. We know all the pros and cons they are extremely hard to house train and suffre from leg breaks very easily but we are prepared for this and there willbe no rough play with my gang he will be allowed to play and run but willbe supervised when with the bigger dogs.
     
  7. flufffluff39

    flufffluff39 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    May 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,726
    Likes Received:
    31
    Totally agree :)
     
  8. PawsandPurrs-Bridgnorth

    PawsandPurrs-Bridgnorth PetForums Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2010
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    7
    Just wanted to support this thread.
     
  9. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2010
    Messages:
    5,742
    Likes Received:
    280
    Thank you those that have supported this thread - while I am not trying to incite a riot - I have to say however, the silence is deafening :eek:
     
  10. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2009
    Messages:
    21,576
    Likes Received:
    657
    Isn't it just!
     
  11. Kinjilabs

    Kinjilabs PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    Messages:
    11,068
    Likes Received:
    379
    I just wish I could say what I want to say but darent on here:rolleyes:
     
  12. MerlinsMum

    MerlinsMum PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Messages:
    8,189
    Likes Received:
    743
    Perhaps you're preaching to the converted...? I think most of us regulars on here would agree wholeheartedly with your post, which was excellent I have to say!

    But how do we reach those others, who are not on here and probably scanning the web-ads as we speak? That's where the issues lies, and I have NO idea how we access that side of the problem :(
     
  13. HeyMeow

    HeyMeow PetForums Junior

    Joined:
    May 19, 2010
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    Great post, thanks. Both my dogs are from responsible breeders and I did quite a lot of research before I chose the breeds I did. Which I am glad for, because the breeds suits me perfectly..However I am doing research into a new breed now (Bearded Collie) even though I don't want another dog for a year or two. But I concider it my duty as a dog lover to be 100% sure that I can offer that particular breed of dog a good home.
     
  14. deb53

    deb53 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    Messages:
    5,479
    Likes Received:
    256
    Popping by to say "with you all the way" here

    Good thread

    xx
     
  15. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2009
    Messages:
    21,576
    Likes Received:
    657
    Hmmmm, I am sincerely hoping I won't get crucified for this, but, having opted out of replying to another thread in the breeding section tonight, because people voicing the responsible opinion are being slated, is it preaching to the converted?

    I've typed a reply, and a new thread and deleted both, because I don't want to feel like I'm picking on one person, and I sincerely am not. But when open support goes on for a zero health tested, cross bred litter, to an underage bitch, can we really promote ourselves as a forum that promotes responsible breeding??

    Now before anyone jumps off the deep end at me, that is a general statement, and not a personal one, but from what I have read, a factually correct one, which is quite sad.
     
  16. LadyLoraella

    LadyLoraella PetForums Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2010
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    1
    Some silly questions but I know nothing about this kind of stuff so its really great I found this site as I'd totally be the person that would go to a byb and do everything wrong. I'm not planning on breeding or anything like that just curious.

    Can I ask why different dog breeds are different prices?

    And when buying what is it you're actually paying for, obviously the dog but there must be more to it as I've learned that breeding is not a money making thing (but the area I grew up, it was!)
    And why do some people charge different prices for dogs and bitches even though the shouldn't? Is it just a byb thing?

    Sorry for the dumb questions :eek:
     
  17. Kinjilabs

    Kinjilabs PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    Messages:
    11,068
    Likes Received:
    379
    Thanks saves me from typing:D
     
  18. MerlinsMum

    MerlinsMum PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Messages:
    8,189
    Likes Received:
    743
    Actually they aren't, if you are buying a dog from a very good breeder, from healthy tested parents. Most breeds are £500-£600 from such a breeder, some go to £650 or slightly higher. Some very rare breeds are more, but not all.... and not from all breeders.... and that's the exception rather than the rule.

    If you are seeing ads for cheaper dogs then they are either scammers ads, or BYBs.

    Very often, yes.
     
  19. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2009
    Messages:
    21,576
    Likes Received:
    657
    Not at all dumb, no question is!

    A responsible breeder will health test their dogs for anything that is deemed a problem within the breed, so for Labradors, generally speaking that's hip sores and the annual bva eye certificate. Other breeders choose to go further, and undertake extra health tests, however, this shouldn't affect puppy price.

    Depending on whether the breed is rare, and the size of litter, that will determine how much you pay for a pup. So a rare breed that has small litters will be expensive in comparison to other breeds. However, puppy farmers don't always charge less, and you will pay a premium to a puppy farmer, as much to a responsible breeder. The majority of those who breed responsibly do not charge a different price between bitches and dogs, although this is an old fashioned trend, and does still exist with a few people who do breed nice dogs, in an ethical manner.

    Things to look out for with responsible breeders, they don't breed often, and in the majority of cases, will want to keep a pup or two back for themselves. They will have undertaken at least the KC's minimum requirement for health tests, to qualify for the accredited breeder scheme. They will also be happy to answer any questions, show you original health test paperwork, and further more, will question you about the role you will provide as an owner.

    What you question goes to show, is that you always need to do your homework, never take it for granted that someone is a responsible breeder because they health test for a, b and c, or don't charge different prices for different colour/sex pups.
     
  20. CarolineH

    CarolineH PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,621
    Likes Received:
    165
    :thumbup: Brilliant post! :thumbup: This thread should definitely be 'stickied'. How about it Mods, please?

    In my experience, people are too keen to buy pups of a breed that they 'like the look of' without doing their research first and finding out whether or not that breed is suitable for their lifestyle. :001_cool: