Welcome to PetForums

Join thousands of other pet owners and pet lovers on the UK's most popular and friendly pet community and discussion forum.

Sign Up

the CM / DW public-relations empire

Discussion in 'Dog Training and Behaviour' started by leashedForLife, May 23, 2010.


  1. leashedForLife

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Messages:
    19,309
    Likes Received:
    3,666
  2. JANICE199

    JANICE199 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2008
    Messages:
    31,124
    Likes Received:
    4,195
    I read the article, is the person that wrote that, bright?as i'm sure she states something about him "training dogs", doesn't she know he never claims to do that?:rolleyes:
    Terry for the amout of times you read up and post about Cesar, i'm sure you've a soft for him really.:lol:
     
  3. Colliepoodle

    Colliepoodle PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,791
    Likes Received:
    176
    Don't you realise yet that however much Cesar claims not to train dogs, he does exactly that?

    Anyone who teaches dogs to do/not to do anything is training them.
     
  4. JANICE199

    JANICE199 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2008
    Messages:
    31,124
    Likes Received:
    4,195
    lmao er i'm not as thick as you might think.:rolleyes:
     
  5. Colliepoodle

    Colliepoodle PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,791
    Likes Received:
    176
    Then I don't understand your point.

    You accuse someone of being thick for stating that Cesar trains dogs. He DOES train dogs. He can call it what he likes and deny it all he likes, but he trains dogs.

    I suggest anyone who thinks he DOESN'T train dogs is thick.
     
  6. sue&harvey

    sue&harvey PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,559
    Likes Received:
    104
    The artical does make a very valied point, which ever side of the fence you sit on, and the show is encouraging people to seek out professional trainers thus improving the dogs quality of life. Trainers are then able to show that positive reward training is the way forward. :thumbup:
     
  7. Colliepoodle

    Colliepoodle PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,791
    Likes Received:
    176

    True :biggrin:

    Decent trainers/behaviourists are getting loads of business from people who have tried CM's methods and either they haven't worked or they've made the dog worse, which is why the "Anti Cesar trainers are just jealous of his success" line is so laughable. Anti Cesar trainers probably send him thank you cards :biggrin:
     
  8. leashedForLife

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Messages:
    19,309
    Likes Received:
    3,666
    hey, pooh! :--)

    actually, pos-R trainers that i know of, in his home area, all voice the same complaint -
    Yes, they are close-enuf to do repair-jobs on dogs that CM or his staff have directly worked with,
    and Yes, they get plenty of fix-it work - but all would PREFER to work with the dog As-Was, *pre-DW-tactics* -
    as the dogs issues would have been relatively straightforward + simple.


    according to their statements on various trainers-lists,
    *post-DW-tactics* the behavioral problems are NOT as simple, and often involve fearful or defensive add-ons -
    like ducking when someone reaches toward their head, neck or collar, or *snapping* under the same circs,
    or a reflexive snap at FEET when ppl walk too-close (for dogs who have been *tapped* /kicked once too often)
    or some other defensive-aggro that the dog did not exhibit before.

    having worked with dogs whose owners SELF-applied DW-tactics, i can heartily second the preference for *Before* -
    its easier to teach a dog a reliable, relaxed DOWN if that dog was never forced into that position, + held there. :rolleyes:

    there are also DW-mimics, who create the same problems for subsequent training / trainers -
    defensive behaviors, shutting-down, being turned-off by training or the mere *sight* of training-tools like leashes, etc.

    having to train leash-free in a fenced or indoor area is one common complication -
    for dogs who fold (sit or drop and refuse to move) when a leash is clipped to the collar.
     
  9. JANICE199

    JANICE199 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2008
    Messages:
    31,124
    Likes Received:
    4,195
    Sorry but can you show me where i did that?:confused:
     
  10. haeveymolly

    haeveymolly PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    12,684
    Likes Received:
    321
    Ive not seen a lot of C.M, but i have to say,(and i might need my tin hat on for this one:D) what i have seen ive liked call hin a trainer or not i was honestly gobsmacked when i first heard on her that his ways were cruel or thats how so many see them the programmes ive seen i never thought was cruel, or thought the ways could have made a dog worse but i suppose that could be said for a lot of methods i dont know.
     
  11. sue&harvey

    sue&harvey PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,559
    Likes Received:
    104
    Hi, the one programme that actually swung me against his methods was a dog with separation anxeity who would tear the door frames off when left at home.
    He introduced a crate but from what the programme showed didn't make it a pleasurable place to be. I don't think the owners had already tried other methods, but I may be wrong. CM then layed shock pads by the windows and doors, and a shock collar so the poor dog danced across when he tried to get to the door. The Crate was never used :confused: As far as I am aware the dog wasn't tired out by a good long run before being left, calmatives were not tried. IMO this poor dog never learned to cope with it;s anexieties it was made to... so there would still be the major stress of being left added with the knowledge of door and window = pain. :sad:

    Havig dealt with SA with Harvey it took us ages but with time, patience and 90 euros later for a crate and calmatives my dog knows I will be back so his time is better spent sleeping and chowing down on a tasty kong.
    JMO though, I do respect others find his ways sucessful, But this show made me cry for the poor dog. I also had a trainer for Harvey who used the Alpha rolls :scared: All his body language was screaming get away from me, and he yelped when she did it, and she wondered why he nipped her when she went to make him lay down. There was no need as he will do it for a bit of sausage but her answer was life isn't a game :confused: I never had her back after that.
     
  12. Colliepoodle

    Colliepoodle PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,791
    Likes Received:
    176

    You question the "bright"ness of the person who wrote the article. You also put "training dogs" in quotation marks, which suggests you don't think he trains dogs.
     
  13. JANICE199

    JANICE199 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2008
    Messages:
    31,124
    Likes Received:
    4,195
    :lol::lol: But i did NOT call anyone stupid.I don't give 2 hoots for how many anti Cesar fans are out there as i've got a mind of my own.And unless you can read my mind, please don't tell me what i'm suggesting.:rolleyes:
     
  14. leashedForLife

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Messages:
    19,309
    Likes Received:
    3,666
    gee, sue -
    why didn;t ya have her back again? :p i mean, other than scaring the bejabbers out of the poor dog,
    who was suddenly afraid to lie-down in human presence for a few days or a week,
    she didn;t do anything so terrible - right? :D

    sarcasm alert -
    i don;t seriously question her reasoning for not having the same trainer return -
    just in case anyone is wondering. :cool: i wouldn;t want to leave confusion in my wake. :eek:
     
  15. Colliepoodle

    Colliepoodle PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,791
    Likes Received:
    176
    You can dress it up how you like, but questioning someone's brightness is fairly obviously NOT a compliment :rolleyes:
     
  16. sue&harvey

    sue&harvey PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,559
    Likes Received:
    104
    :lol::lol: The worst thing was She told me to practice the Alpha Roll :thumbdown::ciappa:
     
  17. haeveymolly

    haeveymolly PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    12,684
    Likes Received:
    321
    O
    Oh that sounds awful and maybe shouldnt judge by one programme, but ime afraid that 1 alone would have stood in my mind, what a shame sounds barbaric.
     
  18. sue&harvey

    sue&harvey PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,559
    Likes Received:
    104
    As I say I sat on the fence for a while but this really clinched it for me. It was about the same time as this trainer so I think between them both it made it obvious to me that there are better kinder ways of training. But that episode really got to me even the OH who is sick of my talk about dogs was horrified.
     
  19. CarolineH

    CarolineH PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2009
    Messages:
    2,621
    Likes Received:
    180
    I certainly wouldn't class him as a trainer. He is a TV celebrity yes, but not a trainer, not a 'psychologist' and certainly not a 'whisperer'. He was a sweeper-upper at a dog groomers who got a lucky break. Good for him - not so good for dogs though. I dare say he has shares in Elastoplast now though! :cool:
     
  20. JANICE199

    JANICE199 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2008
    Messages:
    31,124
    Likes Received:
    4,195
    pmsl at least you agree he isn't a dog trainer.(his words not mine)again i'm lmao off at your comments.Who gives a sh*t what he was?:confused:
    I think you anti CM people have a big chip on your shoulders.:lol::lol:
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice