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The Bulger Killers documentary

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by spamvicious, Feb 8, 2018.


  1. spamvicious

    spamvicious PetForums Senior

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    Did anyone watch this?. I was appalled by it, as if we are supposed to sympathise with the killers because of their age at the time. They played the interview recordings and they were perfectly fine, the killers were asked about what happened calmly. They absolutely knew what they did was wrong and lied about it as a result so of course they should have been tried as adults. We have seen with Jon Venables who continues to reoffend that the prison sentence wasn't long enough.
     
  2. Cleo38

    Cleo38 PetForums VIP

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    Why 'of course'? I haven't seen the documentary & won't be watching it as it was such a disturbing case but they were children regardless of their horrific crime. I don't think that means they are absolved of their crimes or means I am showing them sympathy. Having said that I also don't believe that Jon Venables should be given any further chances as he still appears to be committing serious crimes involving children.
     
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  3. Rafa

    Rafa PetForums VIP

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    What they did was undoubtedly appalling.

    However. Ten year olds cannot be tried as adults. They were not adults.
     
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  4. spamvicious

    spamvicious PetForums Senior

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    Because they weren't acting as children when they killed him. They set out and planned to abduct and kill the little boy. The documentary showed how both boys were manipulative and tried to blame each other. They knew of the consequences of their actions so why should they have been tried as children?. The age of responsibility was 10 at the time, I think its 12 now.
     
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  5. Mirandashell

    Mirandashell Banned

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    Of course they shouldn't have been tried as adults! I'm appalled you would think that.

    All children lie to get out of trouble from quite a young age. The ability to lie is not restricted to adults.

    John Venables is basically broken. He was broken as a child and he went looking for someone to hurt. Thompson was led along and probably had no idea that it would go as far as it did. And he has, by all reports, been a model prisoner and kept himself out of trouble since being freed.

    I agree that Venables should still be locked up as he can't be rehabilitated. He's too broken and should be kept seperate from the rest of us for the safety of our children. But that costs a lot money and the way the system works is that he can't be kept in prison unless he keeps offending and he can't be kept in a psychiatric secure unit unless he gets a mental health diagnosis.
     
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  6. Cleo38

    Cleo38 PetForums VIP

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    Am not sure that it's showing any new evidence or insight (but then I didn't watch it) as that was reported in the media at the time of how they tried to shift the blame to each other. Unfortunately children commit crime, not usually as horrific as this but they do & personally I don't think that means they fully understand what they have or should be tried as adults. But that also doesn't mean I think they should be excused for their crimes at all but just that it is far more complex & more considerations should be given to them because of their young age regarding where they would spend their time in custody, how they would be 'rehabilitated' or even if that should be considered. In JV's case I am shocked that he has been given several chances now but is obviously unable to keep himself from re-offending
     
  7. Zaros

    Zaros Pet Forums, P/resident Evil

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    From everything I've learned, Venables is obviously a terminal lunatic, detention served no real purpose whatsoever, and he needs to be removed from society for everyone's sake, including his own.
     
  8. Rafa

    Rafa PetForums VIP

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    I watched the documentary about the crime itself, told by Jamie Bulger's Mother and the Detective who investigated and handled the case.

    There appeared to be no doubt that Thompson was the controlling one of the two. The Detective described him as "pure evil", even at the age of ten.
     
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  9. Rafa

    Rafa PetForums VIP

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    Absolutely. He's evil, a danger to Society and particularly children.
     
  10. ouesi

    ouesi Guest

    Oh god how awful! I did not know about this and now I can't unknow... :(
     
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  11. spamvicious

    spamvicious PetForums Senior

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    Weird how he hasn't reoffended...or he hasn't been caught.
     
  12. SusieRainbow

    SusieRainbow Moderator
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    My son was the same age as the boys when it happened, there was some debate as to whether 10 year olds were capable of knowing the hideousness of their actions. This affected me deeply knowing my son and his friends, happy and innocent children .
    I just couldn't understand how children's minds could be so warped and sadistic.
     
  13. ouesi

    ouesi Guest

    A 10 year old brain is very different than even a 13 or 15 year old's brain. Developmentally they just don't have the same capabilities.
    That said, 10 year olds have (or should have) empathy, understand how another feels, and have a sense of others.

    From a very young age children understand the pain of others. My twins were toddlers and would be upset by the other being upset. I remember multiple instances of them at a very young age feeling concern and true empathy for the other as well as me and OH and of course our animals as well.

    Makes me wonder what happened (genetically and environmentally) to those boys that they could commit such a hideous crime :(
     
  14. kimthecat

    kimthecat PetForums VIP

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    It was a shocking thing to happen. That poor child suffering and scared . :(

    This reminds me of Mary Bell , another child killer with an appalling background . She strangled two children and served 12 years detention.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Bell
     
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  15. Mirandashell

    Mirandashell Banned

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    Whether evil is born or made is a old old argument
     
  16. Jobeth

    Jobeth PetForums VIP

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  17. Zaros

    Zaros Pet Forums, P/resident Evil

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    Anyone familiar with the Mary Flora Bell case?

    A ten year old girl from Newcastle who strangled two toddlers to death during the late 60's.

    As the only relevant case to study and with strict regard to the release of Venables and Thompson the legal system and the probation services concluded that the pair should be given more protection, supervision and guidance than Mary received upon her release.

    What, if anything, went so terribly wrong In the case of Venables?
     
  18. mrs phas

    mrs phas my home, my sofa, my rules

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    had venebles and thompson been 6, then they wouldve, due to the UK social care system in the 90's, been put into the 'care' system and probably turned out worse than having gone to prison
    Nature/nurture? who knows, its a bit like those who say no dogs are born bad, its all the handlers fault when they bite/kill. Combinations of breeding and dna, parental background, education et al, run true for all animals ( as we too are classified)
    My first born was the same age as jamie bulger and i remember feeling horrified but also so sorry for the mum, that a split second had turned her, in the eyes of many, from a good mum to,almost an accomplice to the fact he was taken, the public, i remember, showed her no sympathy, yet who of us can say they had their eyes on their children 100% of every second of every day
    Cam any more be said or accomplished by churning out the same old news? I think not. Yes I watched the programme and thought it had been intensively 'sanitized' as to what those two boys did to that baby, he was covered in paint, batteries were inserted into him, they had been looking for any 'baby' for hours at the mall and high st shops, admitted that when they saw his mum distracted, called him over and offered him sweets they had already in their pocketsand the fact they left him on a rail track hoping a train would run him over and they would get away with it, shows they knew what they were doing was wrong and they didnt want to get into trouble ( this all from real news of the day, not the programme) as well with the blame game they participated in
    Kelvin Mckenzie was and still is, an odious journalist who whipped up the british public like a ring master, but then the british public wanted someone to blame too and its easier to blame broken children, than to look at and do something about, the society that actually broke them
    the three year sentence venebles has just recieved for a second offence including category A child pornography, is just risible and, again, my heart goes out to those parents seeing their childs killer 'cocking a snook' at everyone again

    for those interested, theres another programme on itv at 9pm tonight, Jamie Bulger; a mothers story, with Sir trevor McDonald
     
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  19. spamvicious

    spamvicious PetForums Senior

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    I was reading about this today, I'm no expert but I think there's a huge difference between 6 year olds and 10 year olds. My niece is 8 and is autistic but still has a huge awareness about the consequences of hurting someone. She is very aware of the finality of death. Whether a 6 year old would know that i'm not so sure. Again though I don't want to sound like I'm trying to pretend I'm an expert.
     
  20. spamvicious

    spamvicious PetForums Senior

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    Going to read up about this now. Whilst reading about Mary I found a story about a 13 year old in America who murdered a 4 year old boy in 1988 and he's still in prison.
     
    #20 spamvicious, Feb 8, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
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