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Thank You Breeders

Discussion in 'Dog Chat' started by Happy Paws2, Apr 25, 2011.


  1. Happy Paws2

    Happy Paws2 PetForums VIP

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    To all of you, who bring our puppies into the world, worry over, nurse, and sometimes cry over them, and then let us have one of your Babies you are wonderful people I would just like to say


    Thank You so much,
    for the joy you give to us have
     
  2. 912142

    912142 PetForums VIP

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    Here here - don't know where I would be without my dogs and cat. ;)
     
  3. Johnderondon

    Johnderondon PetForums VIP

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    squalid and truly appalling


    horrific injuries ranging from missing eyes to untreated sores


    disgraceful example of animal cruelty.

    Puppy Breeding Farm Conditions Revealed: Undercover Filming Shows Dogs In Tiny Pens | UK News | Sky News

    I do not agree that they are all wonderful people. In fact, in our current climate, with around 20,000 + dogs destroyed every single year simply for want of a home I think the decision to breed to undertaken far too lightly by far too many.

    That some breeders exemplify good practice is undeniable. That they also count among their number those who exemplify cruelty and greed is also undeniable. Given the difficulty infinding reputable breeders and the ease of finding dispreputable ones I suggest that that the latter far outnumber the former.
     
  4. Nellybelly

    Nellybelly PetForums VIP

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    Never had a dog from a breeder, all my dogs are/ have been rescues...and I never felt I missed out on any joy as a result!
     
  5. Devil-Dogz

    Devil-Dogz PetForums VIP

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    I would also like to say a big 'thank you' to all the ethical breeders that spend time, love and money into producing healthy, well adjusted puppies..
    - and while we are at it to all the rescues that pick up the pieces of the not so ethical breeders that put no time, love or money into producing their 'money making machines'.
     
  6. wiley80

    wiley80 Guest

    As a breeder myself,i know that there isnt much if any money to be made in breeding if done properly...we are talking Numerous health tests,pre/postnatal care,scans,worming,fleaing,Feeding,vaccinations for ALL puppies and list goes on...i would also never breed if i hadnt a list of potential new owners either,they are all vetted by myself and my husband and put on our waiting list to ensure the best homes possible...as for any of our puppies ending up in recues,that will never hppen as i make it clear that the puppies are to come back to us if there is any change in circumstances and the puppy cant be kept...never had one returned yet :)
     
  7. Devil-Dogz

    Devil-Dogz PetForums VIP

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    There is money to be made in breeding done by them ethical or not.. If a litter goes well - I have no problem with ANY breeder gaining a profit on a litter as long as this was not a/the factor in choosing to breed. I know just as well how expensive a litter is, but on avarge pedigree, registered, health tested dogs go for £500 regardless of the breed, although you will get some for less and some for more.
    Am glad you vet all homes, and feel you do your best - but that wont stop people breaking contracts, or rehoming behind your back - even the most ethical breeders will be 'pooped' on by owners they thought they could trust - its just your job to minimise that risk.
     
  8. wiley80

    wiley80 Guest

    Yes i agree...and i'm sure one day i will have such problems arise,how i deal with it,i don't know,but as for profit on litters...i use whatever profit there may be to benefit my dogs...we have a savings account just for them...we dont have pet insurance as we have been stung by 2 different companies all before,so any bit of money made will automatically go into their acount for whatever they may need in the future.
    Right or wrong,that's how we do it.
     
  9. Nonnie

    Nonnie PetForums VIP

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    Id like to thank my dogs "breeder" for selling a bitch pup to someone in my village, then befriending and supporting her owner whilst she spat out 7 litters of puppies, 2 of which were produced with her own brother. Resulting in numerous SBT's being in my area, and more and more being bred and crossbred every year.

    So yeah, thanks helping to fill up rescues and condemning numerous dogs to death. Well done you.
     
  10. raindog

    raindog PetForums Senior

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    Couldn't agree more with John. In our breed, the bad breeders - puppy farmers, backyard breeders and naive/greedy/stupid "pet" breeders outnumber the good ethical breeders by hundreds to one. This is why all our breed specific rescues are full to the brim and having difficulty coping with the demand.

    Mick
     
  11. Happy Paws2

    Happy Paws2 PetForums VIP

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    Johnerondon.

    If you read what I said about worry, nurse and cry, you would know I was not talking about puppy farms, they aren't breeders they are farmers, and if that's what you thought you should be a shamed of yourself. :mad: :mad:

    I was talking about wonderful people who love, and take the time to care for their own dogs and puppies.
     
  12. Blondie

    Blondie PetForums VIP

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    Why do we have to mention the bad breeders and stuff???

    I thought this was a thread to simply say thanks to those that breeders taht DO care and do a wonderful job!!

    Thank you Happy Paws, for taking the time to mention and thank those of us out there who do care about their dogs whilst breeding!;)
     
  13. Devil-Dogz

    Devil-Dogz PetForums VIP

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    sad fact is that, that doesnt make you an ethical breeder.
     
  14. Happy Paws2

    Happy Paws2 PetForums VIP

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    So what makes a ethical breeder????????????????????
     
  15. SEVEN_PETS

    SEVEN_PETS PetForums VIP

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    I'd like to thank my breeder who brought my little boy into the world and raised him to be the cheeky chappie he is today. :D
     
  16. Blondie

    Blondie PetForums VIP

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    This is what I have on my website -

    So you fancy a Ceearott Puppy? If you have had a look around our site and think you may be interested in purchasing a CEEAROTT puppy, please read the following.

    Your first step is to contact us, either by phone or email. We will have an initial chat to you and register your interest. We will invite you to visit our home and meet the family, whether we have pups at the time or not. This allows both parties to get to know each other and its a chance for you to meet and greet the dogs.

    Once the litter is here, we will keep in regular contact with you until the pups are around 4-5 weeks of age, then we can arrange for you to visit and see the pups with mom. It is at this point, we would ask you to confirm your interest and pay a deposit on your puppy. THIS DEPOSIT IS NON-REFUNDABLE, except in exceptional circumstances, at our descretion.

    You may visit weekly after that, until its time to take your new addition home at 8 weeks old, not before. You will be given a PUPPY PACK, containing KC Registration Papers, Pedigree, Information on Feeding, Vaccinations, Worming, Exercise, Training, A History of the Breed and more general information. We also give you some food to take with you that the puppy is familiar with.

    We also insist on Buyers signing a Contract Of Sale. This is to protect both you and us and of course, the puppy. We will read it all out to you at the time of Sale, to make sure you understand everything in it. The main points are that, if the puppy is sold as a PET, you MUST have bitches spayed not before 3 seasons and before the 4th, have dogs neutered not before 12 months of age and before the age of 14 months. These puppies sold as PETS are NOT to be bred from, under any circumstances. This is for several reasons, mainly to protect our Lines and for the health of the dog. Breeding dogs is not an easy thing to accomplish. It involves many hours of research and studying, looking at lots of Rottweilers, up and down the country, before making choices. The two dogs involved MUST compliment each other, you cannot just mate a bitch to the male that lives around the corner! Most importantly, is the Health-testing issue. All Ceearott breeding stock have always been hip-scored. The new generation are both hip and elbow scored, heart tested and eye tested and DNA-Profiled, before ANY mating takes place. The results from these tests allows to check for certain inheritable diseases and therefore allows us to make sensible decisions and plan our Breeding Program, using only the healthiest of dogs.

    We only breed a litter when we are ready to keep a puppy ourselves, for the Showring and future breeding. We believe no pets have any need to be bred from, there are far too many Rottweilers in Rescue Organisations that mainly come from Pet Breeders and Puppy farmers that now need new forever homes and many remain in Rescue for years.

    ALL puppies will be sold with KC Endorsements on them, preventing them from being sold abroad and and progeny they produce will NOT be able to be KC Registered. This doesnt stop unscrupulous people from using our carefully bred & reared dogs to breed from, but we hope it goes some way to preventing it. We also strongly believe dogs that are not KC Registered should not be bred from. As unregistered, they CANNOT be health tested, only KC Registered can be health-tested through the BVA Schemes. Using KC Registered dogs allows proper records to be kept for future research and reference for Breeders. Also, if mating two unregistered dogs, how can you positively know the dogs arent closely related, therefore in-breeding?

    Any puppies sold to Show homes are also endorsed and will remain so. Anyone wishing to have the Endorsements lifted for breeding purposes MUST contact us for discussion on this.

    Thank you for taking the time to read this, if you are still interested in a CEEAROTT puppy, please contact us.

    CEEAROTT BREEDING ETHICS Ceearott Rottweilers were established in 2002 with our foundation bitch, Cleo, Rojaneva Dark N Dainty At Ceearott. This came after 30 years of involvment in the breed through my parents. Our dogs live in the house with the family and all our litters are home-raised too. We do show our dogs and generally only breed a litter when we want a new puppy for the showring. Please feel free to contact us on any aspect of the breed, whether you are interested in a puppy or not, and we will do our best to help.

    The Pedigree Dog World and the Show Fraternity have taken some hard knocks in the last year or so, mainly due to the BBC Documentary screened in August 2008. This programme led to many people, including the RSPCA, DEFRA and the Government itself questioning the health and welfare of Pedigree dogs in general and specifically focusing in Show Breeders. While, here at Ceearott, we have always tried to breed healthy dogs first and foremost, we now feel that we must take further steps to ensure we are doing all we can to breed healthy puppies, now and in the future. The Kennel Club has a Scheme called The Accredited Breeder Scheme, which has been in place now for about 3 years. This allows certain Breeders who abide by Rules and Recommendations laid down the KC, to become Accredited Breeders and listed as so on the KC Website. More about this can be found elsewhere on our site and on the KC Website. We have become Accredited Breeders and therefore obliged to follow the rules and guidelines. Much of the attention surrounding Pedigree Breeders is about the control of genetic disease within dogs, and just how much Breeders are doing to eliminate them. We would like to assure you that we are working hard within our own kennel to eliminate these diseases.

    Genetic diseases in dogs have been with us for a long time. In fact, they probably started when dogs evolved many millenia ago. Because dogs are biologic mechanisms, as are people and all other living things, they are subject to mutations. Sometimes it is easy to tell whether a condition is genetic, but at other times, especially if there are only one or two cases, it is very difficult to determine whether it is or not. To attempt to control genetic disease within your kennel and breeding stock requires only three things - KNOWLEDGE, INFORMATION AND HONESTY.

    So what evidence is there that shows that genetic disease is a problem in purebred dogs? There is the general evidence - statements by veterinarians, breeders and purchasers of purebreds that genetic disease is common in their experience. About 500 genetic diseases have been reported in purebred dogs, and if the diagnostics were better, there would probably be more. If dogs carried no defective genes or only one defective gene, genetic disease would not be common, we could avoid it with ease. The problem in dogs that compounds the situation is that we also have MATADORS. Matadors are dogs that produce large numbers, perhaps even hundreds or thousands of offspring. These dogs spread their genes over an entire breed so that not only the number of defective genes is high (although no higher than in people), but the frequency of genes for a given set of traits is high (those traits carried by the Matadors). As a result, with many traits in dogs, (unlike in people), the risk of producing a given defect is just as high with an outcross as with inbreeding.

    Tradition states that breedable dogs are dogs that win in the Showring, in fact, determining the breeding worth of dogs is the major purpose of showing dogs. The purpose of a Show should be to evaluate dogs competitively, matching them against the best animals in the breed to evaluate their potential value as breeding stock, and to have FUN - to take part in the sport of dogs with or without the goal of breeding the winners. Showing dogs should be in and of itself fun, being involved in competition should be enjoyable and there shouldnt be any other goal. There are far more important factors than just looking at the Phenotype of the dog, whether you are breeding for disease control or conformation. The conformation of the dog involved is important, of course it is, but it is just one parameter. If we want to make any impact in controlling genetic disease in dogs, we must agree that an ethical approach is based on FAIRNESS, OPENNESS & HONESTY. While traditions are important to us and should remain important, they should be changed if they conflict with the exercise of our Ethics as Dog Breeders. The important points to consider when selecting a dog for breeding are -

    1. What the grandparents and parents produced.
    2. What the parents' littermates are like.
    3. What the dogs's littermates are like.
    4. What the dog has produced previously.

    A Pedigree is the time-honoured method we use to illustrate inheritance. There are 2 types of Pedigrees. One, the most common, shows the linear inheritance of an individual dog, starting with the dog in question and goes back through the ancestors, listing the immediate forebears of each generation. This is the Pedigree that most people know and is what you get from your Breeder when you buy a puppy. The other Pedigree is a genetic analysis pedigree. It goes back through the ancestors in much the same way as the other pedigree, but instead of names, symbols are used, and symbols are used to note any genetic disease in any of the dogs. As the Breeding Program continues, more dogs are added. The purpose of this, is that it allows us to follow and visualise any traits and how they are being passed among the family members. It can be a major help in determining the most likely mode of inheritance within a trait. It is especially helpful in allowing us to select those animals least likely for the various traits found in our bloodlines.

    There is much more we could write as Genetics is a deep and complex subject, and many more factors need to be taken into consideration, in much more depth, as to the breeding of healthy pedigree dogs. We hope this has given you a little insight into the work and thoughts of ourselves, and also many other Show Breeders out there in all breeds, not just Rottweilers. Although we cannot deny there are many ignorant and unscrupulous breeders out there, please rest assured that the majority of Show Breeders are very caring people who care very much about the health and welfare of the dogs they own and breed and are working hard to eliminate genetic disease. What you must realise is, the control of genetic diseases within the canine world, is something which is going to take a long time and many generations of dogs to improve drastically. The Kennel Club has many Health Testing Schemes, relevant to many breeds and the KC work hard to promote these schemes and encourage breeders to use them within their breeding stock.

    The BVA/KC Hip Scoring Scheme -
    This has been designed to address the problem of hip dysplasia, one of those complex inherited diseases. The scheme evaluates radiographs that have been taken of an individual dog's hips. Each hip is evaluated by 2 experts who score nine anatomical features of the hip and score each hip out of a total of 53. The 2 scores are added together to give the dog's overall hip score. So a dogs hip score can range from 0 - 106 and the lower the hip score the better the anatomy of the dogs hips. In breeds where significant numbers of dogs have been through the hip scheme it is possible to calculate a breed mean hip score, which gives a feel for the average quality of the hips within that breed. The average score for Rottweilers is 12, so any score below 12 is an excellent result. The KC recommends that only dogs with a score of average or below should be used for breeding.

    The BVA/KC Elbow Grading Scheme -
    This is to address elbow dysplasia. Again, each dog is graded on a scale of 0 - 3, again by 2 specialists. The lower the grade the better the elbow anatomy. In this scheme if the dog has 2 different elbow grades, the higher of the two is used as the dogs elbow grades. Advice to breeders is to use only dogs with an elbow grade of 0 - 1 for breeding.

    The BVA/KC/ISDS Eye Scheme -
    This scheme has a list, Schedule A, which contains all of the known inherited eye diseases and the breeds that are currently known to be affected by these conditions. It also has a Schedule B, which lists breeds and conditions where further investigation is urged. Specialist panelists appointed by the BVA can examine any individual dog for clinical signs of these diseases. Because some of these inherited eye diseases are not congenital, breeders are advised to have their breeding stock examined each year throughout the dogs life.

    DNA Testing Schemes -
    The last ten years have seen spectacular progress in our understanding of the canine genome, the genes that make up a dog. Significant technological advances and injection of substantial funding to support research means the KC is now directly able to read the genetic code that is embedded in each and everyone of the 20,000 or so canine genes. This means that not only can we now identify the genes that are involved in inherited disease in the dog, but we can also identify the mutation, the error on the gene's code, that is responsible for the disease.

    We at Ceearott, have always hips scored our breeding stock and will continue to do so. We also intend to have our next generation of breeding stock elbow scored and DNA profiled. We are also beginning to put together a Genetic Analysis Pedigree for our dogs, hoping it will help us keep health records of any dogs bred or owned by us, and allow us to make sensible, informed decisions in the future re breeding. We ask all puppy owners to keep in touch and let us know if the dog is diagnosed with a genetic disease at any time in its life so we can update our records and build up a true picture.

    We hope all this information has helped you understand that we are caring, ethical breeders who only want the best for our dogs, both now and in the future.
     
    Shrap likes this.
  17. Devil-Dogz

    Devil-Dogz PetForums VIP

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    many things - not one thing alone, many bad breeders will love there dogs, spend time and love with them :confused:

    an ethical breeder, breeds for a reason, has planned the mating fully, matched two health tested dogs that have proven themselves, has homes waiting, plans to keep a pup back to continue the line..ect..ect..ect..ect..
     
  18. Johnderondon

    Johnderondon PetForums VIP

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    Your thread title did not specify a particular type of breeder. It just thanked "breeders" en mass.

    Indeed your opening text is addressed...

    without caveats, reservations or even acknowledgement that, at a first approximation, dog breeding is a profit-driven pursuit lacking in professionalism and ethics.

    Of course puppy farmers are breeders. Lets not hide behind semantics - they breed dogs ergo they are dog breeders. As are the multitude of backyard breeders, the misguided one-litter brigade, the Beverley Costello's and Emma Towns'es of the show world and those hoping to produce the next winning greyhound. They are all breeders and - whilst those who do the job right deserve the acolades - all too few do that. All too few carry out the tests that they should, all too few properly vet their buyers, all too few compile waiting lists before breeding and, our nation's homless dog pts figures bear tragic witness, all too few stand by the dogs they produce.

    Those few and far between that do breed ethically can merit thanks and congratulations from the entire dog world. Those that do not may still receive plaudits from grateful customers but they will not get them from anyone sensitive to our rescue crisis or involved in picking up the mess that they so often leave behind.
     
  19. Johnderondon

    Johnderondon PetForums VIP

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    Because when breeders are considered en masse then bad breeders are the biggest part of the picture.
     
  20. Happy Paws2

    Happy Paws2 PetForums VIP

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    Johnderondon, you really are trying to nit pick, when all I was trying to say was thank-you.

    I DID SAY, "WORRY, NURSE, AND CRY". DO PUPPY FARMS DO THAT.?????????????
     
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