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Temperament and DNA

Discussion in 'Dog Chat' started by Burrowzig, Jan 11, 2019.


  1. Burrowzig

    Burrowzig PetForums VIP

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  2. Siskin

    Siskin Look into my eyes....

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    Very interesting. Something I came to the conclusion about since I had my last golden Jodi who was somewhat tricky with strangers and other dogs, especially after I met a number of dogs from the same breeder and they displayed the same characteristics as her
     
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  3. tabelmabel

    tabelmabel PetForums VIP

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    Yes interesting - murphles sure has the oppositional defiance gene
     
  4. kimthecat

    kimthecat PetForums VIP

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  5. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

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    It's a nuanced issue isn't it?

    Obviously breeds have traits. Otherwise why do we even bother. We don't herd cattle with bloodhounds, or whippets. There's a reason for that. I'm sure some trainer somewhere would argue that with the right training and motivation you could teach a bloodhound to herd cattle, but those traits won't be passed down should that herding trained bloodhound be bred.

    However it is also true that within breeds there are differences. Sometimes glaring ones. And just because one golden retriever had horrific RG and mauled the neighbor's kid, doesn't mean all golden retrievers are a danger to kids. Which is where I think the argument is coming from - deed not breed. I purposefully used the example of a golden instead of a pitbull because the argument is usually all pitbulls are dangerous because of their breed without allowing for different personalities within the breed.

    And then of course, the vast majority of dogs aren't a breed at all. They're mixes and mutts with all sorts of DNA from all sorts of breeds, some expressed, some not.
     
  6. Cleo38

    Cleo38 PetForums VIP

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    Literally just read this via link on FB! Very interesting & I do agree ... to an extent. I train with mainly GSD's at my training club & the variation between the personalities is huge, even so in my youngest one's litter. But .... then there are similarities in aspects regarding their 'work' that are very standard in them.

    In Archer's siblings (for example) they have similar drive, they have similar grips on the sleeve, they have similar jumping styles, they have similar barks, etc & yet all of us as owners/handlers train very differently.
     
  7. Blitz

    Blitz PetForums VIP

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    interestingly years ago, pre internet, I read something about a golden retriever attacking a child in its home. The owner was shocked there was no media or police interest then saw loads of kids in the plastic surgery unit after dog attacks, nearly all from golden retrievers. Reason being they were one of the most popular family pets.
     
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  8. kimthecat

    kimthecat PetForums VIP

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    Do you feel GSDs have their retained herding instincts ? People tend to think of them as guard dogs and it strange to watch them herding sheep.
     
  9. kimthecat

    kimthecat PetForums VIP

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    Yes, breed not deed . Good point .
    I have met many GRs and only one that showed aggression in a kennel situation . They are hugely popular here in the UK and in my own area.
     
  10. Magyarmum

    Magyarmum PetForums VIP

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    I'm a devotee of Dr Adam Miklosi and have his book "Dog Behaviour, Evolution and Cognition. I also follow his research on the The Family Dog Project website and have read most of their publications, and I've answered a several of their online questionnaires.

    https://familydogproject.elte.hu/

    I've had two Shar-Pei both girls but no relation to each other, and the thing they both had in common was/is their total reliability and predictability. When we go for our walks on the fields at the back of my house, exactly like M'boi, my previous Pei, Georgina will disappear and be gone for about 10 minutes before coming back. I never worry about her, because I know almost to the second when she'll be back.

    I regard that as a breed trait, because personality wise Georgina's quite different to M'boi who was a very quiet, cool, calm girl. Georgina on the other hand is a diva who's not above throwing a tantrum to get what she wants!
     
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  11. Cleo38

    Cleo38 PetForums VIP

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    Honestly I don't know. I do know that all the ones I train with are very prey orientated (aroused by sudden movement) but they have been bred for specific criteria (IPO) so this is very important in training & a competitive environment.

    I attended a shepherding course several years ago with a lady who specialises in herding with GSD's & runs courses/classes. She also attends the Bundesleistungshuten in Germany (the videos I have seen are amazing, so very different form BC's) & spoke about that & the history which was fasciniating. Roxy did seem to pick it up very quickly, which I was really surprised about & so did smokeybear's GSD.

    It really was such an amazing weekend but do they retain this instinct? Am really not sure as it's not something I have any real experience of. @Moobli would be the best person to comment on this as she's had several GSD's & works with sheep
     
    #11 Cleo38, Jan 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
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  12. Magyarmum

    Magyarmum PetForums VIP

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    Slightly off topic but talking about herding reminds me of Tarn, a BC x Smooth Haired Fox Terrier I owned in the 80's. To look at her you'd say she was pure Fox Terrier but in every other way she was most definitely Border Collie!

    At one time we lived on a 9 acre plot in a remote location with only one neighbour who owned a cow. On a fairly regular basis my neighbour and I would arrive home from work to find both dog and cow missing and we'd have to go searching for them. It didn't take us long to realise that Tarn had been practicing her herding skills on the poor unsuspecting cow.

    The pair of them could usually be found at the farthest part of the land with a forlorn looking cow standing in a corner guarded over by a very smug looking Tarn.
     
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  13. Blitz

    Blitz PetForums VIP

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    This is the point though, because they are such lovely dogs and are so popular there is a good percentage chance that when the family dog slips up and bites a child in the face it is quite likely to be a golden retriever. But because they have such a good reputation it is not something that is newsworthy.
     
  14. kimthecat

    kimthecat PetForums VIP

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    I still haven't read that book yet :oops:
     
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  15. kimthecat

    kimthecat PetForums VIP

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    I would have loved to have seen the herding classes! Are you in touch with Smokeybear ? I miss her .

    There was an article on the APBC about GSDs and herding but annoyingly I cant find it on there now:(

    Of the GSDs Ive met, Ive found their temperament varies considerable but perhaps also due to their nurture . I dont think people realise how sensitive many of these dogs are .
    The owner can make a huge difference of how these dogs behave which is true of any dog.
    Ive been unlucky here that I lived between two very arrogant GSD owners that let their dogs chase mine and run up and bark at them , Fortunately one has moved and I walk at different time to the other. They are the reason that my dogs became reactive .

    On the other hand , a couple of others have been a great help to me , their dogs are well socialised and totally ignore Pip and Libby if they kick off .
    The entrance to the park , it has bushes and you cant always see who's coming , OH usually walks ahead to check but today we forgot and were taken by surprise when one of the friendly dogs passed us at a few feet . Pip and Libby didnt bat an eye lid . I was thrilled and shock at the same time .
    I was so proud of them .
     
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  16. Cleo38

    Cleo38 PetForums VIP

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    That was probably written by Pat Tagg (the lady who we saw), as she's a member & has spoken at several of their conferences. If you ever get a chance to attend a workshop or seminar with her then do so as she is wonderful; very funny, friendly & so knowledgeable. I loved the courses I've been on at her farm. I also went on a couple of tracking ones there with Roxy & learnt so much about the activity as well as just how amazing my dogs are .... was quite magical tbh.

    My two GSD's are very different ... completely different lines though; Roxy is a show lines GSD (rescue) & Archer is a WL GSD (I've had from a puppy). Roxy is very sensitive, Very cautious, a pessimistic dog some might say, hates change, loves routine, doesn't like rough play or shouting, is wary of people & other dogs. Archer is the complete opposite as he loves everything, loves new things, will give anything a go, doesn't give a stuff! When we went on holiday (lovely remote cottage in Shropshire) Archer went bounding in ran around having a sniff & jumping on the sofa whilst Roxy hung back then went back to the car!! So funny, chalk & cheese :D

    I will speak to SB on FB or occasionally see her at an event & it's always good to catch up as she's a wealth of information .... & very funny!
     
    #16 Cleo38, Jan 12, 2019 at 7:29 PM
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019 at 7:44 PM
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  17. CheddarS

    CheddarS PetForums VIP

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    Really interesting cause mine has hunting off the scale ( due to my incompetence) and is very successful. He is definitely different from the rest of the litter as they all played and he went hunting BUT also realised our big garden while lovely has taught him all he knows. So believe environment plays a big part as well.
     
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  18. McKenzie

    McKenzie PetForums VIP

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    In Elliot's litter there were two boys - obviously I have Elliot and my good friend has his litter brother.

    My friend lives rurally, works from home, leads a pretty quiet life. I live in a suburban area, and Elliot attended home-based daycare as a puppy which is of course a very busy environment.

    The breeder chose which boy pup my friend and I would have. Since my friend is home all day, she chose the noisy, mischievous pup for her. Since my pup would be spending more time without me, she gave me the quiet, chilled puppy.

    Fast forward 2 years and Elliot is a total loon, a bull in a china shop, and does everything at breakneck speed, as well as being a total velcro dog with zero independence. His brother is totally chilled, enjoys a lazy stroll, and is basically the antithesis of Elliot. So they ended up being the complete opposite of what the breeder intended!
     
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