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taking the plunge..........

Discussion in 'Dog Health and Nutrition' started by Kivasmum, Jan 13, 2012.


  1. Kivasmum

    Kivasmum PetForums VIP

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    Ok, so after about 3 months of reading stickies, books and articles and turning my brain to mush, talking myself in and out of it several times I'm just gonna do it!!! :)

    Kivas food is going au natural aka raw!! :)

    Now I know all you experienced raw feeders don't do menus, and hopefully when I've been at it a while I will be confident enough to not bother too, but for now and my own piece of mind I need one! Ha ha

    So I was wondering if you could be so kind to have a look over this weekly menu and let me know what you think? I plan on getting my first raw order delivered on 30th Jan :w00t:
    A few things to point out first, kiva has been eating chicken mince and leg quarters for about 3 months now so I'm gonna jump straight in and add tripe, would that be ok?and secondly there is no liver, kidney, heart etc on the menu because that's one of the things I need advice on :D do I not give her any for the first week or so and then add small amounts every day after that? Or would I maybe add say 100g to her pm meal a couple of times a week?
    Anyway here is my 'menu'

    Monday
    Am. Chicken mince 454g
    Pm. Chicken carcass 500g

    Tuesday
    Am. Minced tripe 454g
    Pm. Chicken mince 454g

    Wednesday
    Am. Chicken mince 454g
    Pm. Chicken necks 500g

    Thursday
    Am. Minced tripe 454g
    Pm. Chicken mince 454g

    Friday
    Am. Minced tripe 454g
    Pm. Chicken carcass 500g

    Saturday
    Am. Chicken mince 454g
    Pm. Tinned fish in tom sauce 400g + whole egg

    Sunday
    Am. Minced tripe 454g
    Pm. Chicken necks 500g

    I will also be giving her a quarter of a tray of wainwrights wet for supper every night, mainly just so she isn't going too long without food between tea and breakfast, and secondly so she is still used to the ww incase I ever run out of raw the day before a delivery etc will this be ok??

    And the couple of nights I have put down chicken mince for tea, once she is used to full time raw I will hopefully substitute these for other things like beef chunks etc....

    One last thing, I promise :D
    Another thing mashing my head is 'extra stuff' we can add to their food for different benefits for example garlic for fleas? The other ones I have seen mentioned are acv, de (d?? Earth?) Etc etc soooo if you add supplements to your dogs food what do you add, what for and do they work?

    I have already had fantastic advice from you guys on this subject, and if it wasnt for your help I wouldn't dare do this, but I can't wait to watch kiva enjoy every meal like she does her leg quarters, and also looking forward to reduced output! I actually look for to poo scooping after she had a raw day, how sad is that :D

    If you got this far, well done :D and if you have any comments regarding my ramblings I would huuuuugely appreciate it ;)
     
  2. LisaZonda

    LisaZonda PetForums VIP

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    I'm watching this thread with huge excitement!

    I'm a bit in the same boat with Nikita but just a little bit behind you, I'm going to start giving her some chicken wings to try this weekend, then a bit of fish and build it up, see how that goes then finger crossed get her onto raw full time eventually.....but my brain is mushed from the worry of knowing how to go about it all.

    I've read all the info I can find and asked quite a few questions about it, all of which is fantastic so far, people keep saying "well give her anything you want...chicken, lamb, tripe etc...the list is endless", I do appreciate the help I've been given hugely but I just worry about getting it right and rather pathetically want someone to say "right, on Monday do this...on Tuesday do that...and so on", just until my confidence is a bit higher and I'm happy to go it alone so to speak (I do realise that must sound very pathetic to the experienced raw feeders :eek: ...sorry I'm a worrier).
     
  3. astro2011

    astro2011 PetForums VIP

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    I'm also starting raw when my delivery comes. Are you going for 10% of Kivas current weight? You need to maybe add some offal in (try supermarket bargin bins - we got kidney and liver for 9p a box).

    *Didn't see the bit about needing advice on kidney ect. I'd like to hear someone experienced in raw can help?)
     
    #3 astro2011, Jan 13, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2012
  4. Leanne77

    Leanne77 PetForums VIP

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    Wow, there's alot of chicken on that menu!! I know you said you would substitute some for beef chunks etc but what other kind of RMB's were you thinking of introducing (if any)? For example, have you thought about whole rabbits, turkey necks, lamb ribs, pigs trotters etc? I know it's early days but was just wondering whether you were going for a very varied menu eventually or sticking with just 2 or 3 meat types...

    As for the organ meat, i'd just introduce a little bit at a time, making sure Kiva isnt having any negative responses to each thing. Same applies to each type of meat variant you introduce.

    As for the supplements, my dogs do have them but I never seem to see any results, even after several months. They've had garlic capsules, salmon oil, cod liver oil, glucosamine, seaweed granules and at the moment are on kelp tablets and brewers yeast as well as some Easygreen. I've ordered some ACV after reading about it's wondrous properties so will see what that does.
     
  5. Kivasmum

    Kivasmum PetForums VIP

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    I am exactly the same, I've lost count of the headaches I've given myself reading and planning and reading and planning! Ha ha
    I think it's just a confidence thing, I'm sure once we have been doing it a few weeks we will wonder what we were so scared of ;) lol

    I'm going for about 2.5% of her ideal adult weight, as that's what advice I have had from my many annoying raw questions on here :D ha ha
    Yeh I know she needs some offal, I have asked about that in my op ;) it's just knowing how much and how gradual to add it lol
    I am a nightmare really, I need some sort of 'plan' for everything, I sometimes wish I could just do it! Ha ha
     
  6. Kivasmum

    Kivasmum PetForums VIP

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    This ie basically my 'starting out' menu ;) I do plan to add other meats along the way, but I just wanted to get the starting out sorted in my head before I get ahead of myself, which is very tempting to do ;)
    The main reason for the chicken mince on a couple of nights is I thought if I gave her carcass or neck etc every night it might be a little too much bone?
    Which meat would you recommend to introduce first after a week or so of her starter menu? I was thinking maybe lamb?
     
  7. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    As a starting out menu, I think that's about spot on, and then obviously add in the other proteins as you go along. Have you already introduced raw chicken? If not, I'd do that before you switch over, just to ensure there are no adverse effects. I'd also swap a couple of the mince meals for either tripe or chicken carcass, there's a lot of minced stuff in there, which is ok in the short term, but I prefer to see more meaty bones longer term :)

    Edited to add, have you had my guide? If not, it lists other additives in there, or some of them at least.
     
  8. Leanne77

    Leanne77 PetForums VIP

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    It doesnt really matter which meat type you introduce, I guess it depends on the types which are readily available and easily affordable. I tend to stick with chicken carcasses, turkey necks/drumsticks, pork variants and tripe as my 4 main menu items with other things in between to break up the monotony.
    They dont get alot of lamb because it's expensive so only get it once in a while if it's going cheap.

    I dont worry about percentages of offal. They have liver in one of their minces (since they arent keen on straight liver) and I also mix kidney in with a mince of some description and I just do that when I think about it really. I'm one of those raw feeders who doesnt have a menu, doesnt weigh anything out and doesnt do percentages so i'm perhaps not the best person to advise!
     
  9. dvnbiker

    dvnbiker PetForums Senior

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    completely agree the menu looks great as a starting menu, you will work out the amount of bone that suits your dog. One of mine needs a little less bone than my other two so I vary my diet accordingly. But I tend to do mince for brekkie and then either rmb or chunks of meat for tea and alternate evening by evening.
     
  10. Kivasmum

    Kivasmum PetForums VIP

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    I do have your guide yes, thank you it's very helpful ;)
    Do you think a 'boney' meal every tea time would be ok? That's the only reason there is a coyple of minces for tea, didn't want to overdo the bone?
    As for the chicken, yes kiva has been having chicken for around 3 months now :D she has the prize choice chicken mince most mornings for breakfast and a few times a week she has chicken leg quarters, so I know we have no issue with chicken :D
     
    #10 Kivasmum, Jan 13, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2012
  11. babycham2002

    babycham2002 PetForums VIP

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    yup looks great to me
    :)
    good luck :)

    who you gonna be oredering from?
     
  12. Kivasmum

    Kivasmum PetForums VIP

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    Thank you :)
    I will be ordering from DAF as they seem to be the only ones that cover my area and most people that I have seen that use them on here are happy with them :D
     
  13. Kivasmum

    Kivasmum PetForums VIP

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    Would tripe chunks be more appealing than the minced tripe??? :D
     
  14. babycham2002

    babycham2002 PetForums VIP

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    They do seem really good, I wish they delivered as far as me :)
    I do have a distributor near me who I get odd bits off of, but not as large a range as themselves at DAF.


    I think they would both be equally good :)
     
  15. Goblin

    Goblin PetForums VIP

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    OK my take would be to go nice and slow. The two main errors with people starting raw are:

    1) Overfeeding... easily done as raw food looks less.

    If not a very young pup (which I don't think Kiva is) I would recommend sticking to 2% desired weight and increase if necessary to start. 10% of current weight is used by some only for very young pups. Normally you go with 2-3% of desired adult weight. You haven't mentioned Kiva's desired weight and it may be useful if you want to people to comment. Don't be afraid to adjust as each dog is different. 2-3% is a guideline only. You may find yourself going higher or lower than this in the long term.

    2) Going too fast.

    Introduction of new protein sources should not be rushed. We took about a week, possibly two between each new introduction. With multiple dogs we went at the rate of the slowest, Nelson. Heart/liver and organ were last to be introduced and very slowly. It's not a race and your dog will not be harmed not sticking to the Liver/organ ratio while you slowly build up variety. Each dog is different and some people have taken a few months before they have managed to get the dog eating liver without problem. Some seem to take to it with no problem whatsoever. Raw feeding is all about balance over time. Poop watching is key. Firm poop consistent over a few days = new introduction.

    I will assume the tripe is green tripe as the white tripe has very little nutrition left in it.

    I would also dump the wainwrights. It is my opinion that going cold turkey is better. Our dogs went from 2 meals a day (morning dry/evening wet) to a single raw meal without a problem. Your dog may not be able to cope so 2 meals is probably a good idea and is more common. The main reason we went to 1 meal per day was portion sizes. We started with chicken quarters from a supermarket (each one was the daily allowance weight). The size meant the dogs had to chew, the quarters being too large to swallow without doing so. You obviously do not have that problem with minces though. Be aware the smaller the dog the more gap between meals affects them so with small dogs you may have to feed even more regularly.

    If you do get diarrhea (love to kill however made the spelling for that word up if they were still alive) the default remedy should be “get back to the basics.” That means boney chicken, possibly after a fast of 12-24 hours. Continue on boney chicken until poop is stable.

    I generally don't do supplements other than powdered garlic which I sprinkle on liver as nelson hates eating liver without. Care must be taken not to overdo garlic however.

    Don't forget there is nothing wrong with also giving fresh vegetables as "table scraps". Our dogs for example love bell peppers and carrots on the odd occasion. Whilst I do not believe they get much in the way of nutrients from them it doesn't do any harm and they enjoy it.
     
    #15 Goblin, Jan 13, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2012
  16. kate_7590

    kate_7590 PetForums VIP

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    I put my first order in with DAF today!! Your starting menu is very similar to mine, Im starting out with chicken carcasses and tripe, and if they get on okay with it I'm gonna add new meats maybe next month.

    Its really exciting isn't it :D

    Good luck x
     
  17. LisaZonda

    LisaZonda PetForums VIP

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    I totally agree!...Its a bit like learning to drive, you panic being that complete numpty beginner while everyone else knows how to do it, you do know that you'll get there one day too....and when you do you probably then start looking at the learners thinking "awww bless, I remember being that daft" :lol:

    How old is Kiva by the way?....I'm worried about whether I should adjust Nikita's menu because she's so young :001_unsure:
     
  18. Kivasmum

    Kivasmum PetForums VIP

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    Thank you for your reply Goblin, very helpful :D
     
  19. Kivasmum

    Kivasmum PetForums VIP

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    Kiva is 7 months now but she has been chomping on chicken since she was about 4 months ;) but I believe pups can be weaned onto raw so I don't think there is any minimum age? Just start with appropriate sizes etc :confused:
     
  20. Lil Doglets

    Lil Doglets PetForums VIP

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    Hooray glad to hear your joining in the raw club :p

    The menu looks good to start off with ;) after a week or two on that you could start introducing a new meat, give it another week and then add another.
    When i introduced a new meat i just made 2 of the meals in the week the new meat , and then the following week i had a meal of the meat i introduced the week before and then a meal of another new meat , and just progressed it like that really until all types had been added. (hope that makes sense lol)

    With offal and liver you want to start with very small amounts , and build it up very gradually incase you get a bum explosion lol
    I think i left adding any liver or offal at all for about the first month or so til i had brought in several different types of meat , just take things very slowly :)

    As for the supplement things you mentioned, i add garlic for fleas and also because it does some other good stuff in the body that i cant remember :p and turmeric because it's good for joints and reduces inflammation and has also shown pretty good results in fighting certain types of cancer and shrinking fatty tumours or various other lumps n bumps.
    The diatomaceous earth i use for a natural dewormer :) (i also take it myself because it apparently has over 1600 beneficial uses to the human body :p)
    And then they also get some dorwest keepers mix and plaque off because my dogs are weird and still seem to get plaque :rolleyes:
    Also planning to add salmon oil for coat and some ACV cos it sounds like good stuff and i want to have some myself! (the ACV i mean not the salmon oil lol)

    God i rambled on a bit didn't i :eek: hope at least some of this was useful :lol:
     
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