Welcome to PetForums

Join thousands of other pet owners and pet lovers on the UK's most popular and friendly pet community and discussion forum.

Sign Up

Studding my dog

Discussion in 'Dog Breeding' started by Phoenix&Charlie'sMum, May 11, 2010.


  1. Phoenix&Charlie'sMum

    Phoenix&Charlie'sMum PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    3,545
    Likes Received:
    71
    I have had my dog since a pup and have had many offers of studding him.

    He is now over a year old and I have decided that I would like to stud him only to a specific bitch to have POL. So I have had all his health checks done and done alot of research into canine breeding.

    But there is one question that keeps popping into my head...Am I responsible for all of the pups he offsprings and their pups etc. Someone asked me if I would be happy taking any pups of pups etc and obviously I would as it would be half my responsibility but is it really my responsibility as the stud owner to take back any pups? I though it would be the bitch's main responsibility?

    Also do I just advertise him and wait for a bitch or do I go out and look for a bitch as I havent seen any advertised.
     
  2. RAINYBOW

    RAINYBOW PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    10,270
    Likes Received:
    543
    There is a sticky on here i think called "thinking of studding your dog" :)

    I would have thought the general rule would be that the bitchs owner has contact with the pups owners and takes them back if needed but you need to be sure the breeder you chose to stud with is willing to do that if you want a clear concience ;)
     
  3. Tanya1989

    Tanya1989 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    7,907
    Likes Received:
    351
    He should be well shown and people will come to you to use him. A good stud doesn't need advertising. People aproach you to use him. It is your duty of to ensure that their bitch is health tested according to your breed clubs also... What breed is your boy? Picture not clear.

    It is your responsibility too to ensure that the puppies are homed in appropriate homes. If the bitch cannot take a pup back for any reason, you are the next point of call. Same for life time advice.

    You should also know more about ALL forms of breeding before allowing your dog to be used. It is advisable for you to have successfully bred a few litters of your own before allowing people to use your stud.

    You should know all family traits along his pedigree. All flaws along the lines to about the 5th generation minimum.

    In popular breeds such as Staffies, labs, rotties etc etc the dogs should be shown and successful as there are far too many "pet quality" puppies being euthanised due to over population. Breeding should be done to improve the overall breed.

    I personally wouldn't want to use a stud as young as a year old. They haven't matured and its impossible to say how they will look once mature. Faults can develop still.
     
  4. Shamen

    Shamen Guest

    if you stud him out then you should be extremely selective in who you allow to use him, if you arnt selective and the dams owner wont have them back then imo you must take full responsibilty for them!

    as far as im aware advertising a stud isnt really the responsible thing to do, usually the owner of the bitch will ask for a dogs use because shes seen him in the show ring or doing the job for which he was bred and feels he is compatible with her bitch.

    is your dog a greyhound?
     
  5. Phoenix&Charlie'sMum

    Phoenix&Charlie'sMum PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    3,545
    Likes Received:
    71
    He is 1/4 staff and 3/4 whippet, a lurcher. He is an excellant worker and also has been shown (companion) and I have many rossettes and cups for him.

    I have done my research into his generation as I am still very close to his breeder.

    I understand it is different for KC dogs to non-KC.

    I do know alot about breeding as I have a degree in Animal Welfare and Veterinary Nursing - but didnt go into being a vet nurse as I fainted too much at work experience :eek:

    I have lots of people interested in having a pup form my boy but don't know of any bitches to breed from, this is why I thought of advertising him on those Stud Websites.

    He is a year and half and hasnt grown any more in 2 months. I keep a regular diary of his growth since a pup :thumbup: He is also showing more interest in the females which shows he is sexually mature.

    Thanks Rainybow, will check that link out.
     
  6. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2010
    Messages:
    5,742
    Likes Received:
    284
    I am assuming the bitch owner has agreed - stud dog owners have little or NO control over which bitches use their dogs, other than the ability to be able to say no if they don't meet your minimum health or breed standard requirements.

    Bitch owners, even pet bitches have the pick of the market when it comes to stud dogs including national and international champions, I am assuming your dog is shown / worked to have proved himself worthy of reproducing.

    Personally, as a bitch owner, very rarely would I agree to POL, I would pay my stud fee with no other terms agreed. If the stud dog owner wanted to buy a pup back, that's their choice, but with the price differential between stud fees and puppies and and the work and costs that goes into raising a litter.

    In order to agree to POL, the dog and owner would have to be something pretty damn special - the only other reason many bitch owners will agree to it, is if their bitch is not really worthy of being bred from in the first place, and that usually means the stud dog owner is a also novice.

    You also have the problem of mating a dog just 'once' - it might not, but it could change his temperament completely, and you might end up with a dog who gets the whiff of a bitch and is gone.

    If I had a bitch visiting my dog who I felt could produce pups I would be interested in, I would ask to be able to view the litter with an option to buy, but I am certainly nowhere near the stage where I feel I would be in a position to command the POL option against a stud fee.
     
    #6 swarthy, May 11, 2010
    Last edited: May 11, 2010
  7. Phoenix&Charlie'sMum

    Phoenix&Charlie'sMum PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    3,545
    Likes Received:
    71
    Yes Shamen I am going to be very selective of which bitch to breed him with as I want pick of the litter. I am mainly considering a whippet to mate him with, as with him being a worker and there being alot more bull x's out there im hoping to reduce the bull in him for more of the speed and quick turns of the whippets.
     
  8. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2010
    Messages:
    5,742
    Likes Received:
    284
    I know we are not supposed to say this - but what is it with this continued determination to deliberately produce more cross breeds when the rescues are already full of them :(
     
    JSR likes this.
  9. Tanya1989

    Tanya1989 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    7,907
    Likes Received:
    351
    If he is showing interest now, it is likely he will be a nightmare to live with after being used.

    Unfortunately you can't choose a bitch. To breed with, they have to choose you. Your boy will require a lot of health tests which are very expensive as he is a mix of 2 breeds. He will need all the testing for staffies and all the testings for whippets too. Quite expensive way to go about getting a pup. You would probably be a lot better off just buying another pup. Also without all the hassle of his temperament changing, being dog aggressive, scent marking, straying.
     
    swarthy likes this.
  10. Shamen

    Shamen Guest

    whippets are quite small i would have thought it very dangerous to use a dog of this mix on a whippet bitch:confused:

    also i totally agree with Tanya you could spoil his whole character if you let him breed he'll have just one thing on his mind and he could become very dirty in the house they often cock their legs all over the place.

    tbh there are so many staffy crosses and lurchers in rescue i dont think its very responsible to be breeding them at all.
     
  11. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2010
    Messages:
    5,742
    Likes Received:
    284
    I've been thinking about this as I've getting my lunch ready.

    Question for you (and no - it isn't a trick)

    I'm a first time breeder, it's 2am on a Sunday morning, my bitch has been panting and digging for 12 hours straight, my area doesn't have a 'Vets Now' type service, and my vet has gone AWOL - I ring you for advice - what would you do / say?

    It's not just about the welfare of the pups once they are here, its about the welfare of what are, particularly in the case of your dog, will be complete novices.
     
  12. Phoenix&Charlie'sMum

    Phoenix&Charlie'sMum PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    3,545
    Likes Received:
    71
    I was just going to stud him the once to get a pup, then get him neutured.

    Luckily my friend is a vet so he has dont the Hip, Eye, Cardiac, Thyroid and DNA tests.

    I cant remember off the top of my head which tests he has done, as Im not at home atm.

    Thank you for all your comments though it does give me something to think about.

    The main reason for mating him Swarthy is because if he were to sire some pups, I have family and friends that would be very interested in buying them and I do would love a pup from him. I am also thinking that there are alot of staffies in rescue which is why I would try and reduce the staffy in him.

    I do have two rescues of my own and work very closely to LurcherLink - a lurcher rescue so I do know of the consquences and have seen them first hand. But I think once a person had made up their minds and has been searching for months and months to find the right dog and still unable to then the only way to find the right dog is to breed from my own.

    I do appreciate your comments and do understand that breeding is a touchy subject if your not KC registered.
     
  13. Phoenix&Charlie'sMum

    Phoenix&Charlie'sMum PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    3,545
    Likes Received:
    71
    I know of alot of lurchers in rescue.

    If you could find me one that is no bigger than 23" high, perfect recall, great with other dogs, distinctive markings, perfect on the lamp, has high showing qualities then by all means I would adopt that dog straight away.

    I have two other rescues so I know about the issues they have and are working on both of my other dogs to give them a better life. I foster dogs, I help with transport runs, fundraising etc.

    So please dont patronise.
     
  14. Tanya1989

    Tanya1989 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    7,907
    Likes Received:
    351
    We just care about your dog and others in rescue. It seems a shame to ruin your boy to use him at stud when you won't get a puppy that looks the same as him and will have a different character as the with cross breeds they have different character traits as each other in the same litter. Some will be more whippety in character and some more staffy in character. You couldn't mate your boy to a whippet girl as the pups would be too big for her to pass, so they would have to be staffie, or another big breed entirely. Which means even less like your boy.
    Letting him have just one mate will be as bad for his character as letting him have 20 bitches.
     
  15. JSR

    JSR PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,207
    Likes Received:
    317
    Sorry we don't do dogs to order through rescue. And please do come back and show me the miracle puppy that is produced to meet your criteria too. I'd definately be wanting one of those!!:lol: Obviously the fact you say you foster etc but still want to go ahead and add to the problem speaks volumes. I wish you every success in getting a mutt to produce exactly what you want, I'd be interested in what you intend to do when you find it doesn't turn out exactly to your requirements?

    I don't patronise I try to educate those with less understanding or knowledge. Just thought you and others reading the thread might want to see the very small fraction of rescues dedicated to rehoming unwanted lurchers and sighthounds. :confused1:
     
    #16 JSR, May 11, 2010
    Last edited: May 11, 2010
    hawksport likes this.
  16. Phoenix&Charlie'sMum

    Phoenix&Charlie'sMum PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    3,545
    Likes Received:
    71

    I would say make sure she has not started any contractions, normally once the contractions start, it wont be long before puppies start being born. If all she is doing is panting and nesting then this is all normal behaviour for a bitch ready to whelp. Did you get the Book of the Bitch?
     
  17. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2010
    Messages:
    5,742
    Likes Received:
    284
    I have produced a number of litters and YES - I have the Book of the bitch - but could you talk me through checking whether the puppy is stuck in the birth canal of an exhausted bitch?

    ========================

    It's not just about KC registration - any pup with two pedigree parents can be KC registered - it doesn't mean they are well or responsibly bred.

    It's about the deliberate breeding of cross-breeds when rescues are already full of them

    It's about the perception any pup you get will be a 'mini-me' so to speak, because there is very strong chance they won't.

    It's about the fact that it's most likely any bitches your dog has will be the lowest of the low in terms of breeding quality.

    It's about the belief that after mating, the neutering will stop your dog smelling a bitch in season or stop him wandering / mating with bitches - it won't - all it will do is stop him being able to produce puppies - once he knows what sex is all about, neutering is unlikely to stop that.

    =======================

    I don't class myself as an experienced breeder, I have three generations of my own lines here - and a dog and bitch bought in; I am an Accredited Breeder and spent 7 years of my life working in boarding and breeding kennels.

    My dog is a a very nice specimen of his breed, albeit he is slow to mature, he has a SH CH Father, SH CH Grandfather, AM CH G Grandmother, International Champion G G Grandparents, and the back line of his pedigree looks like a who's who of the show fraternity.

    He holds his own in the ring and I've just started working with him, he's PRA and CNM Clear, a current clear eye certificate and hip and elbow results pending - as for temperament, he wouldn't know to be nasty if something came up and bopped him on the nose and I STILL haven't made a final decision on whether I will stand him at stud or not.

    ====================

    I have NOTHING against cross breeds, let me make that very clear - I do however object to the deliberate cross breeding of them solely for the sake of it, when the perceptions and beliefs of how things will turn out are often very misguided.

    You say you will only use him once, yet you have also talked about where you can advertise him.
     
  18. Phoenix&Charlie'sMum

    Phoenix&Charlie'sMum PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    3,545
    Likes Received:
    71
    Well if he has traits form his dad then that what he would be. Which is why I would be after a specific bitch.

    If you have potential homes for the dogs before they are born then it stops the dogs ending up in foster.

    I came to ask for some information and feel like im being moaned to ask for help. Surely it is better to ask for help then start breeding and not have a clue what im doing. Thats what I thought these forums are for.
     
  19. canuckjill

    canuckjill PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2008
    Messages:
    8,795
    Likes Received:
    444
    I had a male sheltie and I did contemplate studding him out at one time. I never found a female that I thought would compliment him, or that was good enough for him. I even owned a female sheltie of my own. Guess I was picky but because I never used him I never had a problem with him marking in the house. All things to consider before you decide on this....Jill
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice