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structure, immune-health + cross-breeds: Photos

Discussion in 'Dog Breeding' started by leashedForLife, May 23, 2010.


  1. leashedForLife

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    do U have links to photos that *illustrate* heritable problems in skeletal-structure or health?
    i just found 2 this morning -

    INU - BAKA: My designer dog :)

    look at the 2nd pic down:
    the dog is seen at an angle from above-left, that rear LEFT * KNEE is not normal -
    look at the left-rear paw placement + the angle of the hock, then the sudden bizarre slant above that.

    INU - BAKA: Vander/Buckley play improves!

    2 excellent still-shots of the Pittie-X she is fostering, who is completing treatment for a Demodex-outbreak -
    a classic signal of poor immune-function + a dog who should not be bred.

    this dog may have Demo-pattern thinning or balding for the rest of his life, or he may have more-isolated spots
    where there is follicular scarring - it is impossible to say, till his coat comes in more.

    these are both heritable problems in ANY dog - purebred, cross-bred or random-bred.
     
  2. Tanya1989

    Tanya1989 PetForums VIP

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    Thanks for finding those. A great way to show that crossbreeds are just as inclined to get the same health problems as "unhealthy pedigrees" and depending on the cross- WORSE problems
     
  3. Tapir

    Tapir PetForums VIP

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    oh come on, it is probably just the angle of the photo in regards to the 2nd photo on the first link...
     
  4. leashedForLife

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    tapir, did U *look* at the photo? :huh: if not, please do.

    it should be obvious that the dogs STANCE on that left-rear is not normal -
    his outside-TOE points directly at the HEEL of his right-rear leg, an approx 60-degree angle of his lower-leg,
    rotating it ==> inward and under his body. the hock above it is rotated <== outward.

    if U still think thats normal, stand on tiptoe (as dogs do), and place Ur feet as his are -
    right-foot a comfortable half-step ahead, SMALLEST outside-toe pointing at that right heel.
    how does that feel?

    that is not possible as a weight-bearing stance in a dog with normal structure.
    he is not being forced into it - he is standing freely.
     
  5. SEVEN_PETS

    SEVEN_PETS PetForums VIP

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    personally, i've seen worse feet on pedigree shih tzus. their feet are awful, turned either inwards or outwards. I do agree its not good for that dog in your link, but there are loads of pedigree dogs suffering from the same problem too.
     
  6. leashedForLife

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    Dermoid Sinus

    dermoid-sinus in Rhodie-crosses -
    90% of the dogs photographed are crossbreds, not purebred Rhodesian-Ridgebacks.
     
  7. leashedForLife

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    thats precisely my point, *seven -
    ANYthing that is present in **either** parent-breed, can be carried or symptomatic in cross-bred progeny.

    i would bet $20 that this Beagle X Bichon got his unstable, lousy knee(s?) from the Bichon parent -
    i would further hazard another $20 that the BREEDER never had either parent screened for well-known breed-specific
    heritable problems - like knees that slither around like belly-dancers under the skin in Bichons,
    or glaucoma, cataract and PRA in Beagles.


    :D wanna bet? :001_cool:
     
  8. SEVEN_PETS

    SEVEN_PETS PetForums VIP

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    absolutely agree. but isn't it awful how pedigree shih tzu and other similar breeds have this issue with their feet but no-one seems to think its an issue and they aren't doing anything about it.
     
  9. leashedForLife

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  10. SEVEN_PETS

    SEVEN_PETS PetForums VIP

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  11. comfortcreature

    comfortcreature PetForums VIP

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    These Chihuahaus born without front legs aren't artifacts of the camera either. They happen to be a freak of nature. Shite happens and it happens in purebred and crossbred alike. That is life.

    [​IMG]

    Nor was the twisted leg on my sister's Lhasa Apso puppy that she purchased from a top breeder 22 years ago an artifact of the camera.

    Point being, that these individual photos prove only that dogs can be derformed/get ailments and all dogs can.

    I've never met anyone so daft they thought otherwards, and find posts like this condenscending in as much as they pretend that some actually believe so and the posters pointing out the fact actually believe they are smarter and so need to educate others in this matter.

    Perhaps someone can link to a website that claims that health problems never occur in cross or mixed breeds, as the suggestion is some people believe this. I've personally never seen one.

    CC
     
    #11 comfortcreature, May 23, 2010
    Last edited: May 23, 2010
  12. leashedForLife

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    Pet Care Tips- Most Unusual Designer Dog Breeds at WomansDay.com

    read the list of Most-Unusual designer-combos of breeds -
    then consider what potential there is for bad combinations of structure with breed traits of behavior,
    or potential for doubling-up on structural or health problems that occur in BOTH parent breeds -

    as one example -
    the Cava-Tsu or CKCS X Shih-Tzu:
    * both have eye-problems - prominence, shallow sockets, cataract, cherry-eye, etc
    * both have cardiac or kidney or liver structural malformations -
    PDA, valvular problems, missing or perforated cardiac-septum; liver-shunts, kidney-shunts; aortal stenosis...
    * both have a high-likelihood of lousy knees, most-often laterally unstable

    then, after considering the doubling-up potential - think about the WORST of BOTH -
    * a Rott X Poodle with Sebaceous-adenitis -
    as a vet-tech, would U want to treat a dog the size of a Rott, leary of strangers, in constant PAIN
    from a chronic skin disease? which is BTW eventually fatal?
    Sebaceous Adenitis

    read this mans odyssey, and look at the worst-stage of his dog -
    Succesful Treatment for Sebaceous Adenitis




    cross-breeding is NOT simply taking one from column-A + one from Column-B, a M + F, and creating a litter.
    it takes awareness and IMO the same diligence in screening + testing as any purebred pairing.
     
  13. comfortcreature

    comfortcreature PetForums VIP

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    Absolutely Terry.

    It's only idiots that wouldn't know this. That list of breeds does not speak to which breeders do or do not take health into account.

    A Cavalier with eye problems bred to another with eye problems is going to produce Cavalier pups with eye problems (and probably registerable ones).

    A Shih Tzu with eye problems bred to another with eye problems is going to produce Shih Tzu pups with eye problems (and probably registerable ones).

    Combine the two, and voila, you'll get a mixed puppy with eye problems. Its not rocket science.

    As a follower of the Cavalier breed and other toy breeds, I can tell you that the majority of purebred toy breeders don't health test either . . . nor do their breed clubs or registration bodies require them to.

    Either way you have a large group of breeders in each category not testing nor really caring, and a minor number which do.

    I choose to focus on what practices a breeder uses, rather than specifically picking apart what they might decide to breed together. I find the latter a distraction.

    CC
     
    #13 comfortcreature, May 23, 2010
    Last edited: May 23, 2010
  14. leashedForLife

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    hey, cc! :--)
    more than one PF-member has stated without quibbling that cross-bred dogs are healthier than purebred dogs.

    it has been a repeated statement on multiple threads - used to rationalize cross-breeding and claimed to be
    the supposed logic behind designer-dogs, which i contest are overwhelmingly NOT intended to improve dog health,
    but merely to make money off a current fad, with no long-term plan.

    i tried AGAIN!! to use the #*%#$@! useless SEARCH function on PF-uk, and again got No Matches - :mad5:
    on 3 variant phrases of the *cross-breds are healthier* idea.
    so heres a Google-search on that 1 phrase...

    "crossbred dogs are healthier" - Google Search



    cheers,
    --- terry
     
  15. sequeena

    sequeena PetForums VIP

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    Oh no that poor little pup :(
     
  16. comfortcreature

    comfortcreature PetForums VIP

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    If your argument is with the statement that crossbred dogs are healthier than purebred dogs, then start a thread on that point and argue it.

    A thread started on the point that crossbreeds CAN get health problems, as if there are claims that they cannot (which then cannot be produced), does not in any way address the same points.

    CC
     
  17. leashedForLife

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    here are a few CLAIMS :) that i can produce:

    these are all from the 1st 6-pages of one thread - :) i will gladly dig-up more,
    if U want me to - just let me know! :thumbup: even tho it means hunting back one thread at a time...

    cheers,
    --- terry
     
    #17 leashedForLife, May 24, 2010
    Last edited: May 24, 2010
  18. comfortcreature

    comfortcreature PetForums VIP

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    Terry, none of them claim that crossbreeds can't have health problems . . . not a one.

    CC
     
  19. Nicky10

    Nicky10 PetForums VIP

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    I don't like the attitude crossbreeding automatically fixes any health problems in either breed. You cross say a lab and a gsd not hip-scored both have HD it isn't going to miraculously not be in the puppies because they're different breeds. Sure it widens the gene pool wonderful that is a good thing especially in some breeds but it doesn't automatically wipe out any health problems. People have claimed in the past I'll see if I can get quotes that any health problems in the parents won't be passed on.
     
  20. comfortcreature

    comfortcreature PetForums VIP

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    I don't like that attitude either Nicky, although I've never heard that one either, but if that was supposed to be the point made in the thread, then on with it.

    CC
     
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