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Social behavioral issues

Discussion in 'Dog Training and Behaviour' started by LouiseSefton, Jun 27, 2010.


  1. LouiseSefton

    LouiseSefton PetForums Newbie

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    Hi,,,

    We have 2 four-year-old Yorkshire terriers (male and female) and we are trying to introduce them to other dogs. Our neighbour is kind enough to let his female Labrador 'try' socialise with our dogs. She is super super submission and goes straight to the ground. Our female seems not to be fussed with her and gives her a sniff but our male stands over her and wants to bite her. All three of us went to an open field, which is where all the dogs and owners meet. And everyone lets their dogs off the lead.

    It is truly embarrassing when you have these 2 Yorkies that we have to hold down, as they want to attack all these happy dogs. And might I add some really BIG dogs. I don't know how we can get them to get better at it. Do we keep going to the field and hope they will start getting along with these dogs?

    Do we nozzle them and then let them off the lead and see what happens?

    It is almost like having naughty children and we are the embarrassed parents.

    Any advice will be welcome.
     
  2. ploddingon

    ploddingon PetForums Senior

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    Have you had these dogs since they were pups and have they always behaved in this way?

    Is the male neutered?

    What sort of training have you tried so far?

    Think that's all the questions I can think of at the mo:)
     
  3. LouiseSefton

    LouiseSefton PetForums Newbie

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    I have had them since they were puppies , but we immigrated and they have been in quarintine for 6 months. They have always behaved this way.

    I have only tried to introduce them to other dogs..
    The male is neutered.
     
  4. busterandlulu

    busterandlulu PetForums Junior

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    Socialisation classes should help. I'm about to start on Tuesday.
    Sounds similar to mine, just need lots and lots of exposure.

    And I'm by no means a pro, lol. A mere total total beginner. But I read with socialising dogs. Best way is to always greet the other dog first yourself, smooth and pat the dog and say good dog. Get your dog to realise the other dog is no threat before allowing the leash to slack enough so the dogs can sniff each other and hopefully not bite.
    The more training, the better the relationship, the more your dog will trust you to judge for him. I think anyway, lol

    And if you're unsure, muzzle can help. We had Lulu muzzled for the first 8 weeks to make sure she was sociable. And are always very cautious but try to make every encounter very positive for both dogs.
     
    #4 busterandlulu, Jun 27, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2010
  5. rocco33

    rocco33 PetForums VIP

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    Are they littermates? if so, then this could be the problem. I would suggest you take them out individually and try to socialise them separately first, but at 4 years old, you've got an uphill battle as the behaviour is already ingrained, so it won't just happen.

    The problem with having littermates (or two puppies of similar age) is that they bond very closely with each other. They rely heavily on each other and as a result never fully develop into a confident whole dog.

    Have a read of this, it may give you some pointers.

    http://www.doglistener.co.uk/choosing/siblings.shtml
     
    #5 rocco33, Jun 28, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2010
  6. MerlinsMum

    MerlinsMum PetForums VIP

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    I think what you want is a nice adult sensible dog who won't tolerate any rudeness from your two, and will gently teach them some good manners.

    By all means take them along to the park but try to see if there's a dog of the above description there, maybe get chatting to the owner and see if you can take yours out with just this one to start with.... perhaps separately as advised above.

    The trouble with the Labrador is she is just giving in, and yours won't learn a thing from her about how to behave around other dogs.

    Not tolerating rudeness doesn't mean a dog that will have a pop at yours - dogs can communicate disapproval just with a turn of the head or a curl of the lip. I have been astonished this week as Merlin (who is often a bit iffy around other dogs) has met my friend's annoying young Boxer who is as 'in your face' as you can get and then some! It's been amazing to watch Merlin's reaction to him - he just turns his head away and ignores Hooch mostly, or turns his back, and if Hooch pushes too much he will growl and show teeth - and this is coming from a dog who I'd always thought was a bit rude towards other dogs himself!

    So see if you can find a good 'teacher' dog for yours, one at a time, and you may be surprised at how quickly they toe the line :)
     
  7. rocco33

    rocco33 PetForums VIP

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    I think the OP said in their first post that they are like this will ALL dogs. I think it's far more likely to be a littermate problem which will not be as easy as finding a dog that will put them in their place to redress.
     
  8. MerlinsMum

    MerlinsMum PetForums VIP

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    I agree with you re the littermate thing wholeheartedly. But there are plenty of dogs out there who will not tolerate in-yer-face behaviour from other dogs, and there's more than one way for a dog to control a dog like that, than having a pop at it! :)

    Sometimes it is incredibly subtle, but it happens. I didn't let Merlin meet the Boxer for 6 months because I was 'surer-than-sure' Merlin would attack him as he's previously been rather iffy with other dogs especially overbearing males (plus I had also seen the Boxer wind up another dog into a fight); and yet when they did meet, I became instantly aware my dog was subtly controlling him and telling him to back off without so much as a curled lip on most occasions. My friend the vet nurse was also awestruck, and we both learned something about calming signals and dog body language that day.

    Especially surprising as less than a year ago it would have been MY dog winding others up, not calming them down!
     
    #8 MerlinsMum, Jun 28, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2010
  9. rocco33

    rocco33 PetForums VIP

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    I agree, but I would never recommend someone trying to find a pet dog that will do this. Firstly, a pet owner can rarely read the signals and it is too big a risk for me, and secondly, it puts the other dog at risk. I would never put my (good temperament) dogs in this position - it is not their place and could jeapardise their good temperaments. Using a stooge dog is different and I would certainly recommend finding a trainer with good stooge dogs, but these dogs aren't common.
     
  10. hutch6

    hutch6 PetForums VIP

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    Hi,

    You are not far from me if you want to use my three as guinea pigs?

    My eldest, Dillon, will allow dogs to go so far before having a word with them. Not in a bad way mind, he will growl and confront if they get too persistant. He has been a legend with my two resuce dogs which had almost zero socialisation between them both so .

    Kes will play all day but will again let a dog know if they have gone too far, and has been a great help in bring the third dog on as they play together all day with Dillon letting them know if they go too far.

    Jess, she is a funny so and so. She will charge around and play with any dog regardless and has been taught by Dillon how to play nicely and also by Kes to some extent.

    They are not aggressive dogs at all, quite the opposite, but like I said, Dillon, and Kes to an extent, will let other dogs know when they have gone too far. They have never bitten another dog or shown malicious behaviour towards another animal (other than rabbits). All three a joy to be around and well controlled.

    If you would like to give it a go then drop me a PM and we can sort out a dog party thingamebob in a park or somewhere.
     
  11. LouiseSefton

    LouiseSefton PetForums Newbie

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    Thanks for the replies everyone, much appreciated. I hadn't thought about the littermate thing before, but it does make sense and they are very much a twosome. An interesting this when they do go for other dogs is they seem to get "zoned" and often go for each other.

    We will have a look for trainers nearby as that sounds like it may be a good way forward :D
     
  12. LouiseSefton

    LouiseSefton PetForums Newbie

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    Today we met Hutch6, Dillon, Kes and Jess along with our two yorkies, Rusty and Chloe. I must just say thank you to Hutch6 for spending his Sunday afternoon helping us.

    It was quite exciting and I am sure Hutch6 will give his views. But he determined that it is only when Rusty and Chloe have eye contact with other dogs that they want to attack them. He could put them back to back touching and they wouldnt be fussed by the other dog, but as soon as there was eye contact they wanted to have a go.

    We also seperate our two dogs from each other during this and that definetely had an impact as they seem to feed off each others energy.

    It was very successful and Hutch6 managed to get them to walk in a pack with the odd go but it was very very good.

    I am really proud of them and I do after today have a bit more hope for them socialising with other dogs.

    Once again thank you to Hutch6. We do think Hutch6 has a way with animals and they responded well to his training methods. Also his 3 dogs are very very well behaved and they had to put up with quite a bit today.. Thank you to them too.

    :thumbup:
     
  13. hutch6

    hutch6 PetForums VIP

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    Hi.

    It was a great day yesterday, despite feeling a little tired after a friend's wedding the day before but Rusty and Chloe are fab little dogs who just need exposure under the right circumstances to other dogs.

    I was amazed how well behaved my lot were to be honest but they made me immensley proud as Rusty and Chloe did you and your partner too.

    From talking about Rusty and Chloe it is clear they haven't had the exposure to other dogs that they need and that is through no fault of anybody's at all so after 4yrs of not being able to be with other dogs for whatever reason then it is a going to take a few months rather than hours to achieve what you want for them. I am confident you can do it and will have Rusty and Chloe romping around with dogs without issues before you know it.

    As I have stated my three are available as stooges/guinea pigs/whatever and whenever you need them so just let me know.

    It was a pleasure meeting your troops yesterday and I promise to book just one weather system if we meet up again :D :D :D :D :D :D

    All the very best
     
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