So the DUP are now controlling our future.

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by noushka05, Dec 5, 2017.


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  1. KittenKong

    KittenKong PetForums VIP

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    Not everyone did of course, in the same sense not everyone voted for TM!
    wp_ss_20171207_0004.png wp_ss_20171207_0003.png
     
  2. stockwellcat.

    stockwellcat. PetForums VIP

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    So the solution is to allow the Republic to stick a border out in the Irish Sea and cut Northern Ireland off from the United Kingdom who they are a member of?

    This solution is not workable.

    Let's hope the redrafting of the border agreement by TM is acceptable to all parties. LV will get to see this later today early tomorrow and hopefully will agree to whatever the new terms are and the DUP agree as well?
     
    #122 stockwellcat., Dec 7, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  3. Arnie83

    Arnie83 PetForums VIP

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    I haven't seen Varadkar say that (re 'wanting' the border in the Irish Sea) but it's one of only a few options isn't it.

    May has already said we are going to 'hard' Brexit because we're leaving the single market and the customs union and the jurisdiction of the ECJ with the express purpose (according to Rees-Mogg & IDS & co) of diverging from EU rules.

    That decision means either
    1) A border on the island of Ireland or
    2) A border in the Irish Sea or
    3) A border between Ireland and the rest of the EU or
    4) Everyone ignores all the rules in both the UK and the EU and lets illegal goods and services cross between the EU and the UK with no border anywhere

    Once the UK has said that they are leaving the single market / customs union / ECJ what other choice is there?
     
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  4. KittenKong

    KittenKong PetForums VIP

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    Absolutely. TM and her government unilaterally opted for leaving the SM/CU/ECJ, not the EU.

    I'm as against the idea of a sea border as much as everyone else.

    Isn't that what Brexit is all about, "Taking control of our borders" which surely means the re-erection of borders including between NI and the Republic?

    The idea of no NI/ROI border post Brexit "of the past" has become another meaningless sound bite.

    Opt for keeping the entire UK in the SM/CU/ECJ. It's the only answer if a border isn't wanted.
     
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  5. stockwellcat.

    stockwellcat. PetForums VIP

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    Well the republic did want to put the border in the Irish sea as many have come forward to say DUP was right to reject the draft bill including Bombardier:
    http://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/a...backs-rejection-of-brexit-border-in-irish-sea

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...brexit-border-in-irish-sea-1.3311275?mode=amp
     
  6. Goblin

    Goblin PetForums VIP

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    Is being taken into consideration. UK were told it would not necessarily be feasible to keep no borders as part of the CTA if the UK left the EU before the referendum. As someone obviously so concerned with Ireland having family there surely this would have been of primary interest in your decision. You voted for mutually exclusive commitments in Ireland, knowing before the referendum this would likely be the case. You did know what you were voting for afterall didn't you? Brexit is brexit and all that.

    You then say possible solutions are not acceptable. Yet to see suggestions of acceptable solutions.

    You've also avoided the question of how do you control a border as promised by the leave campaign without "control" and checking anything?
     
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  7. Goblin

    Goblin PetForums VIP

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    Of course not. Then again, you voted for something where there is no acceptable answer for those directly affected.
     
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  8. stockwellcat.

    stockwellcat. PetForums VIP

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    Mutual interests in the United Kingdom which includes Northern Ireland not Ireland.
     
  9. Arnie83

    Arnie83 PetForums VIP

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    So what's your answer to the problem?

    Where would you put your border? Or would you allow free movement of illegal goods & services?
     
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  10. stockwellcat.

    stockwellcat. PetForums VIP

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    It's all over the media that the Republic intended having a sea border with the Island of Ireland. Who are they to dictate to a member state of the United Kingdom (Northern Ireland)? They are a separate state and do not govern Northern Ireland at all. If I remember rightly it is not the EU putting these rules down in the Ireland agreement it is the Republic. The EU said they would back the Republic of Ireland in this part of the negotiations.
     
  11. Goblin

    Goblin PetForums VIP

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    Real world here. You live in an international environment where you also are responsible for neighbours with things like borders. Even trade through things like the WTO which has rules for cross border trade which includes th NI/Ireland border.

    No, Republic of Ireland is not dictating, they are recommended workable alternatives. Something the UK government is failing to do.
     
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  12. stockwellcat.

    stockwellcat. PetForums VIP

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    CTA. The EU have no jurisdiction over this as it is a separate agreement the UK and the Republic made in 1922/1923. The EU have no right ignoring this and may I point out dictating its terms.
     
  13. Mirandashell

    Mirandashell It wasn't me.

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    Who are the UK to dictate to Ireland what should and shouldn't be done? The UK Government caused this problem through hubris, pride and short-sighted lack of planning. The Irish Government has a right to get the best deal they can out the mess created.
     
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  14. stockwellcat.

    stockwellcat. PetForums VIP

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    I am in the real world. You are so wrapped up in the EU.

    Northern Ireland is a member state of the United Kingdom and have no interest in leaving the UK.

    Let's see what this new draft agrerment wording says and if LV accepts it.
     
  15. stockwellcat.

    stockwellcat. PetForums VIP

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    Irish Government have no right telling the Northern Irish they want to reunite Ireland when the Northern Irish are very happy in the United Kingdom. The republic has no jurisdiction over Northern Ireland and only Northern Ireland can make this decision not them.
     
  16. Mirandashell

    Mirandashell It wasn't me.

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    And the UK Government have no right to insist on a hard border. It will take negotiation. A skill that May is severely lacking.
     
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  17. stockwellcat.

    stockwellcat. PetForums VIP

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    Well there's something I may agree with you on that's why I have repeatedly made it clear she should step aside and let someone else take over. Who is the big question though?
     
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  18. Arnie83

    Arnie83 PetForums VIP

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    I don't see how the CTA is relevant.

    It covers free movement of people between Ireland and the UK of Irish and British people. That won't change whatever happens.

    We're talking about the movement of goods and services, subject to EU rules and standards, from the EU (i.e. Ireland) into the UK (i.e. Northern Ireland) - and vice versa - where they would be illegal if regulations diverge after Brexit. Would you allow that illegal movement? And if not, how would you prevent it without a border?
     
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  19. Mirandashell

    Mirandashell It wasn't me.

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    Well, you may agree with me on that but you've been avoiding Arnie's question for pages.
     
  20. stockwellcat.

    stockwellcat. PetForums VIP

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    What question?

    If you mean about the border. The Republic of Ireland have no right insisting on creating one. It is them that are insisiting on putting one in the Irish Sea cutting Northern Ireland (a UK member state) from the rest of the UK.

    With reagards to the movement of Goods and Sevices it is becoming clear they'd have to create some kind of deal on this that is acceptable not just with the Republic but with DUP as well as Westminster instead of trying to do back handers behind the DUP's back as it is clear this is what happened on Monday. A deal can be done with the UK being in the Customs Union and Single Market. We are the Republic's biggest trader, we trade 72% of our goods with The Republic so they'd be silly not to come to some kind of deal.
     
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