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Size Differences?

Discussion in 'Dog Breeding' started by Stephanie Snyder, Nov 8, 2019.


  1. Stephanie Snyder

    Stephanie Snyder PetForums Newbie

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    My family and I are looking into buying a poodle and beginning to breed doodles. Our plan at this point is to buy a female standard poodle and cross breed her with different males to offer a variety of crosses. Some of the crosses, however, do pose a size difference. I am looking at Bernese Mountain dogs, Great Pyrenees, Great Danes and St. Bernards, but I'm just wondering if she would be able to handle males that size? I have read that the more puppies she has per litter the smaller each puppy will be, and she'll have a better chance of a natural birth. I'm just not sure it's worth the risk, though, and I'm trying to do my research now before buying a bitch and building a breeding plan around something which may not be possible. I just don't know if it's that big of a difference of not? I wouldn't be breeding a Chihuahua to a Rottweiler, but I'm still hesitant about the difference in their weight and build. Thank you for any input!
     
  2. Sairy

    Sairy PetForums VIP

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    I would not breed a bitch with a much larger stud as this could cause problems with whelping. What is it that makes you want to purchase a dog with the purpose of breeding various crosses? If you are really interested in breeding then how about getting to know all you possibly can about the poodle breed with a view to perhaps one day breeding good quality poodles?

    I know everyone has their own preferences, but I cannot see why people would want to breed poodles crossed with the breeds you have listed. What is there to gain from crossing these breeds?
     
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  3. Stephanie Snyder

    Stephanie Snyder PetForums Newbie

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    We definitely have different opinions, because personally I would not have a big interest in anything purebred! Every single animal I own is a cross, everything from horses to dogs to cats. in my experience the animals that are purebreds have way more health problems than the crossbreds. Also, I live in a very rural area where people are very fond of the large breed dogs as livestock guardians. That being said, all of those breeds shed like you would not believe so there is a rising demand for those crosses as a guardian that has a lighter shed pattern.

    For whatever it's worth I have no intention of simply slapping together two dogs and selling the puppies for a fortune. I have done extensive research about the poodle breed, and if we do decide to purchase I will certainly take my time choosing a bitch that is registered, has passed all of her health screenings and has good conformation and temperament. Likewise even though the dogs will be crossbreds I will still do my research on all studs to make sure they are registered with good temperaments and have passed all of their health screenings as well. I have done all my research on dieting for her and the puppies, as well as the equipment needed and the vet care. I know it is no small undertaking and I don't regard it as such, they will have the best care I am able to provide. They will simply be crossbreds and not purebreds!
     
  4. Linda Weasel

    Linda Weasel PetForums VIP

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  5. Stephanie Snyder

    Stephanie Snyder PetForums Newbie

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    Can I help you?
     
  6. simplysardonic

    simplysardonic Moderator
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    Your first sentence says you want to buy a purebred dog, so why do you then come over snobbish about purebreds when without them people wouldn't have their money making doodles?

    And crossing livestock guarding breeds with poodles to make a low/non shedding LGD?

    Not to mention breeds with completely incompatible drives!

    LGDs spend a large amount if time working independently from their handlers, out in all weathers, so how exactly is a poodle type coat going to be maintained, given that doodles are notorious for matting & needing comple shaving down unless groomed thorough on a very regular basis?

    Honestly, I've not read anything so ridiculous in a long time!
     
  7. Sairy

    Sairy PetForums VIP

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    Ok, I'm a little baffled if I'm honest. You don't want anything purebred, but you are looking to purchase a poodle?

    If people want livestock guardians then why not purchase a livestock guardian? Crossing with a poodle won't automatically make them low-shedding, but if they are livestock guardians then wouldn't they be spending a large part of the time outside anyway?
     
  8. simplysardonic

    simplysardonic Moderator
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    Clue:
    [​IMG]
     
  9. picaresque

    picaresque Mongrelist

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    Oh look, a new member posting about doodles and pushing all the right buttons.
    If you were to do this OP it would make much more sense to use a poodle stud but I suspect this is just a trolling exercise (nothing better to do on a Friday night?)
     
  10. Stephanie Snyder

    Stephanie Snyder PetForums Newbie

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    Let me start by saying people like you are the #1 reason people like me don't like purebreds, because so many of you are rude and snobs.

    Purebreds aren't my cup of tea. Do I have anything against the dog personally? Not a bit! Whatever bitch we get will be loved and cared for just like our crossbred.

    Do I care that you like purebreds? Not a bit! Personally I think they've been inbred/overbred for too many years, but if purebreds are your passion that's your right. Good for you. The only problem I have with purebred dog breeders is the snobbish attitude you have so beautifully displayed for me.

    Many dog owners in rural landscapes are like me; their dogs are guardians as well as pets. My current crossbred sleeps near the barn at night to be a guardian, but during the day she comes in the house and is a pet. Having a cross that has reduced shedding would be fantastic in such a setting.

    And I may be new to this site, but I'm sure I can find how to block you. If you are unable to answer my initial question in a polite adult manner I will certainly find the "block" button and happily utilize it.
     
  11. Linda Weasel

    Linda Weasel PetForums VIP

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    No.
     
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  12. Stephanie Snyder

    Stephanie Snyder PetForums Newbie

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    I'm actually interested in getting into breeding and I'm trying to do my research before buying a bitch, as I imagine a responsible breeder should. I got on this site because I (foolishly, apparently) was under the impression that experienced breeders would be able to offer insight into my questions. I am actually on my way to work, certainly not bored on a Friday night. If I had known this site was full of immature and rude snobs I certainly wouldn't have bothered.

    For the record, I would buy the worst mongrel in the world before I would buy from a breeder with this attitude.
     
  13. Stephanie Snyder

    Stephanie Snyder PetForums Newbie

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    I wanted to say that while I don't agree with you I do very much appreciate the polite feedback you have given me. So far you've proven to be the only decent person on here.
     
  14. simplysardonic

    simplysardonic Moderator
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    Ah bless you, but I don't actually have purebreds, mine are all mutts;)

    Why do people persist in the belief that doodlizing something magically turns it into some special hypoallergenic, non-shedding healthy snowflake dog?

    Wally Conran once tried that for hypoallergenic guide dogs & it failed.

    I'm am a member of several LGD groups as I have a rescue LGD myself, & I have never seen anyone on these groups saying 'oh, if only my LGD didn't shed so much, could someone please outcross to a poodle for me'.
     
  15. Ochre

    Ochre PetForums Junior

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    I have a rescue labradoodle and other crossbreeds (as well as pure breeds). Just a genuine observation, but my doodle sheds like crazy. And she is 3/4 poodle. What makes you think that your puppies would shed any less? I have a friend who is very involved in doodle rescue and one of the main reasons for people surrendering their dogs to rescue is that they were told that doodles wouldn't shed, but in most cases they do - in abundance. And doodles need very intensive coat maintenance to ensure they dont mat and tangle - is this honestly something that an owner of a large guardian breed would want to do? Especially one that lives outside and might not be that happy about going to a grooming parlour every 8 weeks?
    Poodles are very handler focused - they like being with their people. Large guardian dogs are the opposite - therefore in crossing the breeds you are going to get a mixture of personalities and traits. So if someone wants a guardian dog, but ends up with a poodle type personality, they wont be so happy, and vise versa. It sounds like you might have issues finding these dogs an appropriate forever home tbh.
    Just as an aside, crossbreeds have just as many health issues as purebred dogs in my experience. Just because it is a cross, wont mean it is more healthy.....
     
  16. Teddy-dog

    Teddy-dog PetForums VIP

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    I think before you research a poodle to buy you need to do a bit more research on genetics and what happens when you breed two different dog breeds together.

    Sticking something with a poodle doesn’t make it non-shedding. You’re just as likely to get pups with the LGD coat that shed massively than the poodle coat. Or an inbetween which can be even worse as needs a lot of care and attention and possibly a lot of money spent on grooming regularly! You could also end up with pups with the poodle personality that would be useless as livestock guardians.

    Crossbreeds can also pick up health problems from either breed so it doesn’t automatically make them healthier.
     
  17. Stephanie Snyder

    Stephanie Snyder PetForums Newbie

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    Hey, thank you so much for that feedback. I know crossbreeding with a poodle won't automatically make it non-shedding or hypoallergenic; I have known that from the start and never intended to mislead my buyers. The points about the personality difference and outdoor aspect were something I hadn't thought of, however. You have definitely given me food for thought and done so in a polite and respectful manner, thanks so much! I will certainly research other breeds as potential crosses, maybe those more like the poodle in temperament.
     
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  18. Stephanie Snyder

    Stephanie Snyder PetForums Newbie

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    Thanks for the feedback! Another poster brought up a good point about the personality and lifestyle differences between the two breeds also, which I hadn't thought of. Definitely makes me rethink my potential breeding program! Thank you for the polite feedback!
     
  19. Ochre

    Ochre PetForums Junior

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    I think ethically bred crossbreeds are wonderful dogs. I think you are totally right though to look at the personalities of each parent dog and find a cross that really complements each other. Physically it is for the best too. That way there wont be any conflicting character traits and each potential puppy buyer can be fairly confident of the requirements of their new puppy and can make sure it will suit their individual circumstances.
    I have one rescue dog - he is a springer/bichon cross. Looks cute, is a wonderful guy who I love to bits but was originally sold to a family as a Christmas present by a puppy farm (not relevant in this situation, but just for background information). He is one massive contradiction - his character is that of a springer - very workey, drivey and on the go all the time. However, physically, he is just not geared up for so much activity and has alot of orthopaedic problems so is very very limited and it is so frustrating for him :( He is very hard to manage. He is a wonderful dog, but needs alot of mental stimulation to satisfy his drivey nature as his body simply cannot keep up. I think though that if you find two breeds that complement each other, ensure you complete all of the required health tests etc then you will produce puppies that dont have the same problems that my little lad does :)
     
  20. Rafa

    Rafa PetForums VIP

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    I'm afraid that pups do not become smaller the more litters a bitch has. The size of the pups is largely dictated by the size of the Parents.

    Mating a Poodle bitch to larger/bulkier dogs would definitely put her at risk during whelping.

    I would say that, if you're looking to buy a well bred Poodle pup from health tested parents, then that would be from an ethical and conscientious Breeder. I don't believe that any such Breeder would let you have a bitch pup, were they aware of your breeding plans. No good Breeder would.

    If you wish to breed LGDs, then I would not involve a Poodle, but breed purebreds.
     
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