Welcome to PetForums

Join thousands of other pet owners and pet lovers on the UK's most popular and friendly pet community and discussion forum.

Sign Up

Should l have him neutered

Discussion in 'Dog Training and Behaviour' started by sammyos, May 9, 2010.


  1. sammyos

    sammyos PetForums Newbie

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    l have 3 shih tzus - 1 is 14 and neutered and 2 aged 3yrs 1 is neutered 1 isnt

    l had the young one neutered when he was 10mths as he was testosterone fuelled

    He changed almost overnight , however he is still jealous of his litter mate which can lead to a squabble occasionally

    l was wondering whether to have the other 1 neutered as maybe that is causing the problem

    the neutered 1 tries to dominate him as the un- neutered one is very calm and easy going he is easy prey so to speak

    :)
     
  2. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2009
    Messages:
    21,573
    Likes Received:
    667
    Neutering is not an answer to either training or 'dominance' related issues I'm afraid, it simply means they don't have any balls, probably not what you want to hear, but there simply is no cure by lopping something off.
     
  3. staflove

    staflove PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,992
    Likes Received:
    56
    I have to disagree we had a staffie lad neuterd as he was so hyper and within 4 weeks he as really settled down, but i always say that neutering and spaying is a must and would recommend this to everyone, what if your dog got stolen and was used for breeding by a clown, sorry but just walk in to the pounds and see all the dogs there on death row waiting to be PTS cos no one wants them anymore as they have served there perpose made them money and then dump them.

    All dogs must be done in my eye :)
     
  4. staflove

    staflove PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,992
    Likes Received:
    56
    Just another thing spaying a bitch after her first season is fine but i always reccomend a dog to be done around 12 months, any younger than that there can be problems as i have seen for myself with a ladys dog i was training :)
     
  5. rocco33

    rocco33 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    5,443
    Likes Received:
    770
    I think you have two problems here - firstly they are littermates, and secondly neutering the more dominant one which has effectively put them on an even playing field making this more of a problem. Ideally, if you are having problems with littermates, or even two evenly matched non littermates, you would neuter the more submissive one as then the difference between them makes things easier, instead, by neutering the more dominant one you have inadvertently made things more likely to kick off. In your current circumstances I would neuter the more submissive dog too. Combined with training things should get better, but be aware that having littermates can lead to these very problems.
     
  6. sammyos

    sammyos PetForums Newbie

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thankyou for replying

    I have certainly taken on board what you said

    The reason l didnt have the submissive one neutered is because l was open about maybe breeding from him as he is so good natured the other 1 has to be done to coll him down

    l agree the neutered 1 prob know the other has something he hasnt

    Thanks again
     
  7. rocco33

    rocco33 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    5,443
    Likes Received:
    770
    No, it has nothing to do with that.

    Dogs (and bitches) have a natural hierachy and generally recognise that hierarchy and live quite peacefully within it (There is often confusion when owners mess this up by trying to make things more 'fair' which is a human concept, not a canine one - fine to do that with children, but not dogs ;).

    When this balance is upset this causes problems and confusion. In this case, it would appear that you have neutered the more dominant dog which has left this imbalance. If two dogs are having problems you should always neuter the lesser dog. Neutering him now should go some way to redress the balance.

    I would advise you not to stud the dog. Not only will this make matters worse as it is likely to change his behaviour but tbh, putting a dog at stud requires (or should) a great deal of knowledge and experience. IMO far more than is necessary when breeding a bitch.
     
  8. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2009
    Messages:
    21,573
    Likes Received:
    667
    Slightly off topic, but I'd have to disagree, not because I don't wish the rescue's weren't full, or that I think every dog owner is responsible enough to look after their entire dogs and ensure that they don't reproduce, because unfortunately it's all too common. But why should responsible dog owners be forced to neuter dogs, when they needn't? It's an expensive operation, and putting a dog through any operation is a risk, yes it's a common procedure, and unlikely anything should go wrong, but it sometimes does unfortunately :(

    Also, it doesn't work in the same way for every dog in every situation, neutering a dog does not necessarily calm them down or solve behavioural problems. In some instances it can make things worse.
     
  9. staflove

    staflove PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,992
    Likes Received:
    56
    No your dead right in some cases it dont work, but dose not matter how you are my auntie had her dog pinched we got him back and she wsa in the garden with him, i just look at all the resuces to mant people breeding and not enough owners are responsible like we are but thats my veiws :)
     
  10. leashedForLife

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Messages:
    19,309
    Likes Received:
    3,666
    i don;t ask that Q - i ask instead,
    *should this dog be kept entire to breed?, which IMO is the only reason to keep any dog (or cat),
    M or F, intact. :)

    neutering M-dogs does indeed greatly lessen many problematic behaviors rapidly -
    marking indoors, marking inappropriately (everything vertical; clothing, cars, legs, etc), M to M posturing + reactivity,
    fights + bites (whether to humans or other dogs), RG-behavior lessens, and so on.

    has this dog had *every* test available for his breed?
    has he had *every* non-breed-specific test - eyes certified clear of heritable problems by a vet-opthalmologist, etc?
    does he have excellent structure (which has been radiologically confirmed - not LOOKED AT or FELT?)
    does he have excellent temperament?
    is he active or lethargic?
    is he socially-apropos with other Non-Household dogs - can he play with non-sibs/non-rels?
    is he social with ppl? tolerant of handling? biddable? ...

    LAST but not least - what about breed traits?
    his coat quality, pigment, eye-shape/color, ear-set, tail-set, manner of gait, behavior traits, etc? all correct for his breed?

    if YES is the answer to every question of test-results and quality, then he may be worth breeding -
    but is the breeding worth the hassles at home? :rolleyes: thats an entirely separate consideration, in itself.

    think carefully - studding the dog is an irrevocable step, for the progeny, the breed, and Ur home with the other dogs.
    post-stud, he may start marking indoors, become more prone to fights, etc -
    so be prepared for potential fallout.

    cheers,
    --- terry
     
  11. sammyos

    sammyos PetForums Newbie

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi

    thanks again for your advice:)

    the 1 thats hasnt been neutered isnt affected by his "nuts" he is a lovely sweet natured dog to breed from him was just a thought maybe if l was ever approached but havent actively initiated anything

    he has never mated and doesnt have any issues either

    the other 1 the dominant 1 needed to be done and that has had a big effect on him(for the better) but is still jealous of the un- neutered 1

    Could it be that the neutered 1 knows that he hasnt got what the other 1 has?

    There is always a dominant 1 in the pack as l understand altho we humans are the ultimate pack leader

    I would like to think if l got the other 1 neutered they would then be the "same" but the domination wouldnt involve testosterone

    l have always had male dogs but of different ages and have never had a problem with them

    None were neutered but never bred either died as pure as the driven snow
     
  12. goodvic2

    goodvic2 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2008
    Messages:
    4,776
    Likes Received:
    163
    Absolutely agree :)

    My sister has a bulldog who was not neutered until he was nearly 4. What a pain in the backside he was! peed everywhere, dominant, pulled terribly on walks etc, humping. Once he was neutered and with a bit of training, all the above have stopped. - different dog now.

    When I got my third rescue he was not neutered (private). Caused mayhem in my house. Got him neutered (and with a lot of work) and things improved.

    Testosterone does not help a dogs behaviour. There are also many health reasons as to why you should neuter.
     
  13. rocco33

    rocco33 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    5,443
    Likes Received:
    770
    No, sorry I thought I'd explained that.

    We humans are not dogs so don't even come into the equation. As to whether there is always a dominant 1 in the pack, it's not as simple as that. I hate using the word dominance because people have preconceived ideas about what dominance is and it confuses the issue. Dogs coexist with each other but they do have a hierarchy. This is fluid and not set in stone, but, some are stronger characters than others and take the role of being higher in the hierarchy and others are happy to take their place lower down. In male dogs, some of the 'character' that goes into making them more 'dominant' is fuelled by testosterone. Therefore, you have a naturally 'dominant' dog that has had his testosterone taken away and lower ranking dog that still has his testosterone so making them equal - this can lead to challenges and fights. Add to this the fact they are littermates.

    They wouldn't be the same because personality comes into it. In fact, you don't want them the same - it is much harder for dogs to fit into this hierarchy if they are all the same - this is what leads to squabbles.
     
  14. leashedForLife

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Messages:
    19,309
    Likes Received:
    3,666
    hey, sammy! :--)
    errmmm :eek: lets not over-analyze this -
    Ur 2 neutered-dogs do not lie in their cold, lonely, celibate beds at night, with fantasies of luscious ShihTzu babes in diaphonous
    garments, drooling over past-issues of PlayDog, and thinking darkly of suicide :p HUMANS do those things... dogs don;t.

    i would also suggest dumping the entire concept of Dumbinance into the bin in the kitchen, and take the entire bin out promptly -
    before it cross-fertilizes, morphs into something even-more dangerous, and crawls back out :eek:

    one more time:
    * dogs are not hierarchically ranked -
    nor are wild-wolves - NOR it develops, are CHICKENS - the poor benighted creatures who began this whole mess,
    in the 1920s, with the man who published a paper on pecking order in domestic chickens.
    yes, even chickens, with a brain the size of half-a-dozen peas, *are more complex than a simple linear **who pecks whom,
    and who cannot peck back.**

    dogs have fluid relations with each other and with each human -
    my Akita would listen to me, but not to my B-I-L; why? for a host of reasons - not least of which, the eejit PULLED HER TAIL
    the very-first day that she met him, as he walked along behind her - she never turned her back on him again.
    trust or lack of it, training which i had done + he had not, manner - my BIL is an ex-Chief-Petty-Officer -
    with the bombast and bluster to go with the rank... lots of reasons.
    does that make her DOMINANT? not at all - she is simply not responsive to someone she thinks of as a creep.

    OTOH she adores my elder-sis, his wife - she does not necessarily obey her, but she adores her!
    lavishes enormous displays of yodeling joy on her, knocks her glasses off kissing her, and so on.
    is that dominance? no - she doesn;t see her often, and is hugely excited by rare reunions.

    dogs vary in how much each wants (something) and even how much the same-dog wants the same-thing, at different times;
    a hungry dog is more interested in food than a sated dog, but even if s/he just ate, most dogs would eat a cube of steak.

    humans make decisions cuz we are the humans - with the house, food, money for vet-bills, car to go places, etc.
    dogs go along with the decisions cuz they are our dependents -
    we PROVIDE the food, shelter, walks, grooming, vet-care, outings, exercise, dog-social time, TRAINING, and more.

    if dog-A has a major thing for balls to chase + chew, dog-A is willing to argue more over that *resource* than dog-B, who thinks
    chasing a ball is a waste of time, and prefers to chew bones - or shoes - or stuffed-toys that have squeakers to eviscerate.

    DOMINANCE as used in behavioral-science, means -
    * an interaction between 2 individuals - an EVENT (not a personality trait)
    * its Intra-species, not Inter-species (dog : dog, horse : horse... NOT dog : human)
    * its over RESOURCES, period: food, a bitch in heat, a bone, ...
    Dumbinance as used re domestic-dogs, means whatever the H*** the speaker defines it to mean -
    ergo impossible to discuss; a meaningless term which only muddies communication,
    and it casts *dogs*
    as our adversaries - which is itself damaging.


    we can discuss any dog, or household of dogs, or assemblage of dogs, *accurately* + fruitfully*, without once using this label.
    it only complicates - it does not explicate.
    cheers,
    --- terry
     
  15. staflove

    staflove PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,992
    Likes Received:
    56
    Thanks hun testosterone dose not help behaviour and and neutering dose help but for those who dont have a clue about breeding and want a dog as a pet should have it done it breaks my heart the amount of dogs used to make money and then dumped as there no longer needed.

    How you doing anyway how the dogs :)
     
  16. sammyos

    sammyos PetForums Newbie

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    thanks for your advice

    l now understand l have created a problem by neutering the dominant 1 brought him down so to speak but his nature is to be dominant one

    so l think if l get the other 1 neutered should be more balanced again

    the dominant 1 wont have the testosterone in his face and the other will be the follower as he is happy to be anyway but without being growled at

    So will make an appointment for the "snip"

    Regards

    Eileen:thumbup:
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice