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should I get her hip scored?

Discussion in 'Dog Health and Nutrition' started by katiefranke, May 6, 2010.


  1. katiefranke

    katiefranke PetForums VIP

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    with all the threads recently on HD/hip scores etc it has been on my mind...

    maggies dam & sire have low hip scores and their parents were also good etc, but as I am going to be doing agility with her, I want to make sure that she has got a low hip score before getting into it properly in case we made anything worse if she did have a problem...

    anyway my current vet is pretty good and they have a few at the practice - one of which is an orthopaedic specialist and runs an orthopaedic referral service from the practice too. So does he sound like the right sort of person to do the x-rays? Does anyone else live nr Camberley in Surrey that can recommend?

    GA or sedation? I have spoken with him and he said that he does hip and elbow scores very regularly and that he always insists on a GA rather than just sedation, as it will give the most accurate score.

    i forgot to ask when i spoke to him, but the receptionist told me that it was very painful for them too which is why they insist on a GA and that maggie will likely be very sore afterwards...is this right? i dont want to put her through anything painful unnecessarily...I just thought it was a set of x-rays!

    ...I have seen a number of your mention sedation being fine? or is GA the best way? I am concerned really about having to put her under a full GA...or shouldn't I be worried? he said there would be no problem and it really doesnt pose a risk for her at her age...

    cost: they quoted about £290 for the hip and elbow - that includes the GA, the x-rays and sending off to be scored by BVA. does this sound about right? we are in surrey, so i'm aware that prices are sometimes a little higher here.
     
    #1 katiefranke, May 6, 2010
    Last edited: May 6, 2010
  2. Nonnie

    Nonnie PetForums VIP

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    Having assisted with a few hip scores, id imagine it is rather painful (we used a GA).

    Its not a case of lie dog on back and take x-ray. The hips have to be rotated, with the legs pulled straight, the knees parallel and pointing upwards, then strapped in place. An un-natural position for a dog.
     
  3. GoldenShadow

    GoldenShadow PetForums VIP

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    I have Roo booked in for tomorrow, and I have to say after more reading and talking to a couple people this morning I am very pleased he is going under GA instead of just sedation..!

    He is a funny bugger anyway at the vets and I think the poor guy would just get in a state. He was sedated for his boosters and anal glands and was still showing strong signs of distress so they had to give him more sedative to have him very nearly out of it, he loves people/animals etc but he seems to get really nervous when they all want to touch him and he doesn't know them, so he panics and wont stay still long enough for them to look at him...

    Its up to you, I am getting Roo done primarily because he looks like he doesn't use his back end (to me, from a horsey view, not a doggy one to be fair!) and because he wont jump up onto or into anything. People have suggested perhaps their is a weakness and he can feel it/instinctively knows not to jump, no idea how true it is but with his gait looking a bit off at times it is something I want to look at.

    If you have £290 available and are concerned strongly then you could do. I was quoted £250.10 from my vets for GA, a check up before hand and the BVA fee is £80 of that £250. I will stick Roo on supplements soon anyway, I was going to wait til he was 2 but will probably get them soon, and if his hips aren't great or elbows, I'll get something stronger I think.

    Your vets might be able to check her over quite well without scoring, I'm not sure if they are orthopaedic, maybe they know what to feel/see on the dog more..? Not sure how prone collies are to problems either, retrievers are quite hence my concern with his gait, plus a pup sired by his sire has 49 as a hip score...

    Its a toughie! You do what you think is right :) Will let you know how Rupert gets on too.
     
  4. katiefranke

    katiefranke PetForums VIP

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    Good luck for Roo!!! Hope it isnt too bad for him and you dont spend too much time worrying !!

    I can afford it, I'm more worried about whether it is cruel to put her through it - but I want to do agility with her. Currently she is doing the beginners stuff with no real jumping as she hasnt been old enough, but I would hate to continue without checking and then find some years down the line that I have contributed to a problem she may have and brought it on quicker for instance...

    She doesn't show any signs of anything... :(

    Oh I dont know what to do!!
     
  5. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

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    I'm in South Wales, and my vet charges £500 for Hips and Elbows.

    Personally, unless you are seriously thinking of breeding, I wouldn't bother wasting your money.

    A few questions to consider:

    a) Are you 100% confident in the vets ability to take good plates? it is very easy to make a set of hips look much worse than they are.

    b) If your girl, who, you don't indicate has any problems, comes back with high scores, what will you do then?


    ----------------------

    Many dogs who don't have the best hips can exhibit absolutely no symptoms - if you want to protect her, then it might be better to spend your money on giving her some natural supplements to help keep her joints healthy.

    Invariably, if she scores zero or much higher, in keeping with a lot of dogs (and a bit like humans) she may well develop arthritis when she is older - but this is unlikely to be anything to do with her hipscores.

    ----------------

    Of course, OTOH - if you think you might want to breed her at a later date, then yes, it makes sense to hipscore before you start serious agility with her.

    Personally, I always opt for sedation as I feel safer with it - but I know others feel differently. I do a 180 mile round trip to get my dogs plates done (at a considerably lower cost than my own vet even when taking into consideration the fuel costs).

    Good luck whatever you decide
     
  6. GoldenShadow

    GoldenShadow PetForums VIP

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    Just had a look and the average for collies is 13, I think? That's pretty good compared with other breeds to be honest, I wouldn't actually worry too much to begin with, what were her parents scores? You could give her glucosamine and chondroitin capsules anyway, I know many do and swear by them.

    Do you know of many collies with this problem? At least they are lean dogs, like your girl, I think it probably doesn't help retrievers that some carry so much extra weight :( The average for goldens is meant to be about 18-19 and I know of a good few retrievers who have had hip problems, if you know of collies with lots of problems with their hips I would be inclined to say you may as well, but if its not common to come across then I really wouldn't worry. I know Roo has a half sibling with a score of 49 and potentially another with a score of 47. Is it worth asking your breeder what he or she thinks about it, maybe they know how well the siblings have done?

    Not sure what age a collie would want it doing either, I wanted Roo to be over 18 months as he would still be growing a bit up til then.
     
  7. katiefranke

    katiefranke PetForums VIP

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    thanks for all the info swarthy - to answer your questions:

    a) Are you 100% confident in the vets ability to take good plates? it is very easy to make a set of hips look much worse than they are.

    This particular vet at the practice is an orthopaedic specialist - but am also going to look around and ask some of the breeders round my area who they use too. So I won't do anything until I am confident in their ability to take good plates.

    b) If your girl, who, you don't indicate has any problems, comes back with high scores, what will you do then?

    Maggie hasn't got any known issues and her immediate family have good scores with the most immediate being relatively low under the ave. But if I start agility now and she did have bad hips I could be setting her up for issues later on - earlier than she would otherwise have them.

    If I find out she has a high hip score now (in fact if it is not low) I will not be taking up agility competitively - simple as that. Although I want to do agility, I will not do it at the expense of her health....so knowing will make a big difference to how I proceed.

    I will definitely not be breeding from her though.

    The main thing that worries me is the GA as I had thought I would be able to have it done under sedation...and also how much pain this will cause her :( Is it a very painful process for them? Can it cause any sort of damage to her through the procedure itself?
     
    #7 katiefranke, May 6, 2010
    Last edited: May 6, 2010
  8. GoldenShadow

    GoldenShadow PetForums VIP

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    What is it about the GA that worries you so much, sweet? Most I have heard of seem to sedate but I don't have a problem with GA, might not be saying that tomorrow though.....time to get my lucky charm out I think :nonod:
     
  9. katiefranke

    katiefranke PetForums VIP

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    Yep it is still quite a problem in collies - esp farm bred where they often dont take the hip scores. Yep it is 13 in BCs and maggies dam is 4,4 (8) and sire is 4,2 (6) so both are low. Her grandparents are all under breed ave too as far as I can remember. Then some above this are a little over, but if you look back over the generations they have become progressively lower, thats good to know.

    Yep you're right, it prob helps that BCs are quite lean and maggie is just about right.

    Im in contact with the siblings and none have had theirs scored yet, as I think they are all doing obedience, so not so worried. But my breeder and the Rozzie lines she comes from are bred for agility, so on the whole they should be pretty good scores, but I just worry as I know that there have been high scores thrown from other lines that came from low parents...

    I wouldnt get her tested yet anyway, my current course with her is running for 15 weeks before we would start doing any jumping and even then only a gradual increase in height...so I have a bit of time. Maggie is 13 months at the mo, so will wait a couple more months anyway.

    I dunno, I guess just the fact that there are more risks when they are put completely under but I am probably being stupid - I am a complete worrier when it comes to maggie! On the other hand, like you I would actually prefer the GA in some ways as it means she would be completely out, relaxed muscles etc so they dont have to manipulate the joints as harshly as if she was resisting etc...
     
    #9 katiefranke, May 6, 2010
    Last edited: May 6, 2010
  10. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

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    I've had one of mine done under GA (touch wood with no problems) and 3 done under sedation, also with no problems, - and they've all been back in the showring the following day with no obvious effects of aching from being pulled about.

    If you can give me an indication of where you are, I can ask one of the Lab breeders I know in that area who she would recommend.

    There is a lady in Southampton who takes excellent plates and I know people travel far and wide to use her, but I also know she has a HUGE waiting list.
     
  11. GoldenShadow

    GoldenShadow PetForums VIP

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    That's good you've got a couple months to ponder over it :thumbup:

    Its up to you, good so many of her relatives have scores! As I said the average in retrievers is about 18-19, dam was I think 6:6 (12), sire 5:8 (13) and then most further behind that are either a total of 12 or a couple were 16, but to be fair those were in the 90's and perhaps the average was a bit higher than 18-19, I'm not sure!

    I think glucosamine and chondroitin you can get from holland and barrat, I know a lady who gives those to her dog every day, he is now almost 10 and had HD aged 7 months and had two ops then. He gets glucosamine injections every 3 months and always has, but besides those all he gets are the tablets and he does well. He can't go shooting as he goes lame after half a day, but he goes to work with her OH every day on their farm and does great! He has epilepsy too, but he is actually from fantastic lines, but the owner is dubious as to what the breeder knew when he bred that litter..!

    Still not overly sure on the sedative Vs GA think, hopefully some others may have views on that :)
     
  12. tashi

    tashi PetForums VIP

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    Swarthy

    Where in South Wales are you that is a big difference from what we pay for hips and elbows, we normally make the trip to Southampton but after she broke her arm she had a back log, so this time we used our own vet and to be honest there wasnt a huge difference in price to Southampton, both hips and elbows were less than £200
     
  13. katiefranke

    katiefranke PetForums VIP

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    thanks swarthy, thats good to know that your lot have all seemed fine after - think that will ease Tinsleys mind a little too hopefully as she has her Roo in tommorrow for his x-rays!

    I am in Camberley, Surrey...but actually southampton is not far and I would be prepared to travel there if it was on good recommendation...I am not in rush to get maggies done - so a couple more months wouldn't hurt if I had to wait some time...
     
  14. tashi

    tashi PetForums VIP

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    The lady in southampton is fab, they are done under sedation and you go in with your dog and hold them with their head sort of in your lap, we have taken quite a few to her and we have never had any problems after, she will also retake the xray if she isnt happy with the plate, but you have to book well in advance :)
     
  15. kaisa624

    kaisa624 PetForums VIP

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    Ermm, when Holly has problems down here, we take her to Farnborough Vet Centre, near Farnborough North station, so only about 10 minutes drive from you (I live on outskirts of Camberley).

    They seem to have a lot of good facilities there, and the vets are lovely! We're getting Holly MRI'd there once she's old enough :D
     
  16. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

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    I'm in between Swansea and Llanelli - but actually travel to Ross for my plates :D
     
  17. tashi

    tashi PetForums VIP

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    You show your dogs as well then :thumbup:
     
  18. katiefranke

    katiefranke PetForums VIP

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    Thanks guys - can someone PM me the details of the lady in southampton please?

    Thank you! :thumbup:
     
  19. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

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    I do indeed yes :D You?

    I am away to London early in the morning, but id no-one has come back to you by tomorrow evening, let me know and I will get them for you :D
     
  20. rocco33

    rocco33 PetForums VIP

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    Will pm you but be aware you will have to keep calling - she's the devil to get hold of on the phone ;)

    IMO, if you are thinking of doing agility seriously, then I think it would be a good idea to get her hip scored - not necessary, but very useful. I'm not of the opinion that scoring is only for breeding and anyone doing an active sport with their dogs could do worse than checking their hips.
     
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