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Should I get another Goldfish?

Discussion in 'Fish Keeping Chat' started by Kyria, May 7, 2014.


  1. Kyria

    Kyria PetForums VIP

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    Hi again,

    I bought the API salt and changed some of the tank water...I used the gravel cleaner first of all but he kept swimming over to it to investigate and I was petrified I was going to bash him with it, cant say I was that impressed unless Im doing something wrong.

    I measured it all up correctly the tap safe and the API. I also bought him some goldfish sticks to eat instead of the flakes. I put two wee sticks in his tank but they just floated on the top and he was taking massive big gulps trying to swallow them :eek:, he would get them in his mouth but than let go off them so he ended up not eating them I took them out and put his flakes back in..

    Looking at him today his skin looks painful I didnt use the white spot treatment because you told me not to. I hope the salt will help him.

    I went to my local Garden nursery where I had actually brought him from all those years ago They have a pet place in there and got talking to a lady about my goldfish. She said if I want to rehome him I can take him back to the nursery and they will find a good home for him as they do rehome fish. I have decided this is what im going to do but I have to get him healthy first she said.

    She was showing me the size of the tank that I would need for him and its just massive I have nowhere to put a tank that size in my sons room or even in my lounge so this is the best decision for him. I hope I can make him look better and as soon as he is I will take him to her.

    Thankyou again for all the help you are giving me.

    I did water test and everything still looks high its a strip test My one from Amazon arrived today too. The NO test looked ok..The KH one was high so was everything else...I dont know what any of the stuff on there stands for. Im totally confused and worried im going to make him more ill.
     
    #21 Kyria, May 17, 2014
    Last edited: May 17, 2014
  2. magpie

    magpie PetForums VIP

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    With the test kit, the main ones you need to worry about are ammonia and nitrite, as both are very toxic to fish. If you get a reading for either of those, then it's best to do a large partial water change.

    Nitrate can also be a concern, but only really if it's very high. Nitrate is the end product of the cycle, so all cycled tanks would have some nitrate; as your tank isn't cycled you may not have a reading for this, or if you do it may have come from your tap water.

    KH (carbonate hardness) & GH (general hardness) just tell you how hard or soft your water is... with a high KH it just means that you have hard water, which is not a problem for goldfish :)

    pH is important too, but probably not something you'll need to worry about. If your KH is high then I would guess that your pH is stable and probably fairly neutral, which again is fine for goldfish.

    As for food, I realise it's a little late now, but sinking food is best for goldies. For my goldfish I use Tetra Goldfish Gold Japan pellets, Aquarian brand flakes, and Hikari pellets (all of which are sinking types), as well as frozen foods like bloodworm and daphnia.

    It's a pity you're not closer, as I could have rehomed him here with my goldies if you'd wanted :) It's great that the lady at the garden nursery can rehome him for you though, it sounds like she knows how big of a tank he needs at least.

    If you can get a piccy of him, it may help us to help you a bit more :)
     
  3. Phoenix24

    Phoenix24 PetForums Senior

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    The gravel cleaner - all you do is pump it back and forth under water until the siphon starts working - by this I mean it starts to suck the water up and out into the bucket. You dig around in the gravel using the siphon head (the hard plastic bit in the water) and the flow of the water drags poo and other bits up with it and out into the bucket. That's it. Very simple. Don't worry, the goldfish is probably just curious but they usually move out the way. Luckily he is too big to suck up (this can happen with really tiny fish!).

    I'ts going to be a bit of a long haul, but hopefully we can help you get your goldfish back in shape.

    Those test strips don't typically show ammonia levels (actually I find the test strips to be pretty rubbish, especially for pH), and it is the ammonia and nitrite that you really need to know. The liquid test kit is simple. Fill one of the glass tubes in the kit up to the 5ml line, take the bottle for the test you want, give it a little shake, open the cap, squeeze the number of drops it says on the bottle into the tube, put the tube cap back on and give it a shake. Wait a couple of minutes for it to change colour, and compare the colour to the chart.

    The ammonia test (assuming you have the api master test kit) is two bottles. I think its 8 drops from bottle one then 8 from bottle two. You can give the test tube a swirl before adding the second set of drops, but I find it works fine even without doing this.

    The ammonia test is a range of colours from bright yellow to dark green. Anything other than the brightest yellow indicates ammonia, and any ammonia will harm the fish.

    The nitrite (NO2) test is a single bottle, I think its 5 drops, and the results range from a light blue to a deep purple. Anything other than light blue is toxic.

    It is usually advisable to perform these tests on tap water to see what the baseline is, as some tap waters contain low levels of ammonia, and sometimes the nitrAtes too (NO3).

    Obviously for people who keep more than goldfish knowing the pH of the water is a big help, but FYI goldfish prefer pHs in the region of 7.6-8.6, but are fine in lower pHs.

    So now what you have to do first is test your water for ammonia and nitrites (post the results on here). Ammonia levels rise before the nitrites, and once nitrites start showing it can take a while for the bacteria that deal with those to grow. So what you will see during a cycle is a surge in ammonia, followed by a surge in nitrite, then a slow steady decrease in ammonia, and finally a slow decrease in nitrite. Sometimes a cycle will stall, but if that happens we can explain more.

    You will then need to do 50% water changes every day and test the water BEFORE each water change to see how the cycle is progressing. Once you get your Prime, you can use a high dose of this to reduce the nitrite toxicity (a 5x dose, read the dosing levels on the bottle). The API salt should have dosing levels on there too, one of which will say something about nitrite. Just be aware that the 50% water changes will be diluting the salt, so you will have to work out the doses carefully to factor this in (or not bother and just dose the salt once a week or something - the salt only helps with the nitrites and your fish's skin problem, so you might consider just using a salt bath in a bucket to treat the skin issues).

    This is the problem with fish in cycles, especially when fish are sick, trying to get doses right. This is why we always recommend fishless cycles when people are buying new fish - obviously this is not something you can do now.

    As soon as your ammonia AND nitrite levels both hit zero and stay at zero over a period of 3 days or more, then you know your bacteria are all grown and the cycle is complete. Then hopefully your fish will either be better, or else still be well enough to treat (alas the cycle may actually kill him).
     
  4. Kyria

    Kyria PetForums VIP

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    Oh gosh, I wish you were nearer too..I would have so gladly given him to you now.
     
  5. Kyria

    Kyria PetForums VIP

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    Oh my gosh :confused::confused::confused::confused:
    I thought having a cat with digestive problems was bad enough, until now..

    Unfortunately I got the test strips from Amazon too as it sounded more simple.

    Ill test everything again tomorrow Should I put some more fresh water in there tomorrow too... Omg I hope I dont end up killing him by trying to make his life better after all this time of having him :crying:
     
  6. magpie

    magpie PetForums VIP

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    So long as it's treated with a dechlorinator and is temperature matched, fresh water will never hurt ;) So yeah, personally I would be changing water every day, especially as you're not sure of your test results.

    The better type of test kit is one of these http://www.amazon.co.uk/API-Freshwa...qid=1400357928&sr=8-1&keywords=api+master+kit
    or these Aquarium Nutrafin Mini Master Test Kit - 4 Tests: Amazon.co.uk: Pet Supplies
    They are much more accurate than the test strips.

    Don't worry, you're doing a great job and clearly trying your best to make him better, which is more than many people would do :)
     
  7. Kyria

    Kyria PetForums VIP

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    Thankyou :eek:...Im going to try to upload 2 pics I took yesterday of him..
     
  8. Kyria

    Kyria PetForums VIP

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    My daughter kindly took some photos for me tonight which were better than the ones I took.

    He keeps going under the filter (as in pic) and kind of rubs his fin under it, like he is trying to squash himself under there, but it may have been because of the pictures being taken. and he was feeling scared :confused:
     

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  9. Kyria

    Kyria PetForums VIP

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    Hi there the prime has come today and I have put 11 pints of water in a bucket with just a couple of drops of the prime not even 1ml by working this out its about correct. No I shall take out some of his tank water clean it and put this fresh water back in (without the salt?)

    Hope Im doing everything right he seems happy enough always comes to greet me when I walk in the room I almost feel like he knows me :) he is swimming around ok too.

    I hope the prime will make his skin better.
     
  10. NaomiM

    NaomiM Love my furry, feathered and finned family

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    That amount of Prime would be fine for just dechlorinating the tap water, but since you're also using it to detoxify ammonia and nitrite, you need to work out the dose for the amount of water in the whole tank, then multiply it by 4. You can either add it to the bucket as you've done, or add it directly to the tank, after syphoning out the old water but before putting in the new water.

    I'd also be doing larger water changes than that - I can't remember what size your tank is, but personally I'd be opting to change about 50% of the water daily at this stage. Check that the temperature is the same as in your tank before you put it in - cold water from the tap is likely to be colder than in your tank, which may stress your fish.
     
  11. Kyria

    Kyria PetForums VIP

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    Hi there,

    I actually put the tap water in the bucket and left it in there for a few hours before putting it in his tank so hopefully it was around same temperature.

    Being so careful with him now, I really cant understand how he put up with me all these years, no wonder his mate decided he had enough :(...Im really bad at maths so my husband had to work out all that for me :) I shall let him read your comment to work out the prime for tomorrow.

    Thankyou and everyone for all your help. I bought him some tetra fish sticks I hope he likes these ones and they sink or he doesnt spit them out like the others :) The tank I have is around 24 to 26 litres. I cant remember exactly was trying to compare it with the ones at pets at home. Anyway its not big for him especially after seeing the tanks he should be in :(
     
    #31 Kyria, May 19, 2014
    Last edited: May 19, 2014
  12. Kyria

    Kyria PetForums VIP

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    the salt only helps with the nitrites and your fish's skin problem, so you might consider just using a salt bath in a bucket to treat the skin issues).
    ------------------------

    By this do you mean put him in a salt bath in the bucket? or just add the salt to the water and no prime?

    I did a 50% water change today using the prime x 4...he seems ok but his skin and tail dont look good still.

    The stick water tests are looking ok.. I will buy the other testing kit but at the present moment I cant.

    I really want to try to start treating his skin again but I dont know when I can. Im not sure if he has the white spot now, the gold on his skin looks sore though :(
     
  13. Phoenix24

    Phoenix24 PetForums Senior

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    By a salt bath I mean dissolve the theraputic dose of salt into pre-treated water (you can't put a fish into raw tap water, remember, so yes do treat it with the Prime first - just the normal dose for dechlorinating), and then put the fish in it for about 20 mins or so.

    I suppose you could save the salty water and dip him again on a daily basis, but I would chuck it away after a couple of dips or else it will go bad.

    Alternatively, you could add salt to the aquarium at a low dose, and increase it daily after each water change (taking into account the dilution with each water change).

    As soon as the water chemistry is stable you can start the white spot meds. Typically you dose the tank on day one, wait four days and dose again (with no water changes in between). Then wait another four days, perform a water change. If whitespot not gone you repeat dosing on day one and day 4. The reason for this is that it takes 4 days for the parasites to hatch out in the water, so the second dose deals with any remaining eggs that hatched between it and the first dose.

    The aloe vera in the water conditioner should ease the soreness on the fish's skin until you can start the medication.
     
  14. Kyria

    Kyria PetForums VIP

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    Thankyou again for help :)
     
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