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Seeking some advice, please.

Discussion in 'Dog Health and Nutrition' started by C Hegan, Jul 26, 2020.


  1. C Hegan

    C Hegan PetForums Newbie

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    Dear all - I was hoping to get some advice regarding my new Working Cocker Spaniel puppy. He is 9 weeks old, and for the first week we had been feeding him the food the breeder had given us. He had also recommended Eden complete (not a puppy specific food, but the breeder said it is one of the top foods from a nutritional perspective, and suitable for puppies - i also double checked with Eden who confirmed OK for pups) and suggested we try and make an attempt move him over to this gradually - 10%, 20% volumes each couple of days. We did this, but then on Friday past he developed very bad Diarrhoea. We took him to the vet and they wanted to keep him in for observation. They felt he may have eaten something in our garden that didnt agree with him - grass, or another "foreign" body. They didn't think it was to do with his food, but couldn't be sure.

    We have just picked him up, and the vet has sent us home with Royal Canin Gastrointestinal puppy food and said to feed him on that for a week to let his stomach settle.

    I am hoping I can get advice from the forum as to (a) how to move him back onto his proper food, and (b) if Eden is appropriate for the puppy, or whether it is too rich and i should be looking to get him on to a different food (Skinners or something similar)? Conscious that i don't want to keep chopping and changing, and also conscious that I have already bought two big bags of Eden Complete, but will obviously move him onto something more appropriate if there is something more appropriate?

    I know it is probably very different from puppy to puppy, but I just want the best for him and don't want to be causing him to have regular stomach upset by giving him the wrong foods.

    Very much appreciate any advice - and thank you in advance.

    Chris
     
  2. Burrowzig

    Burrowzig PetForums VIP

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    Some dogs DO find Eden too rich (whatever that means) - one of my dogs did. Were you just giving the much smaller amounts?
    What I'd do - seeing as you've bought 2 big bags of it - is get something more 'basic' and feed the 2 mixed together, introducing the mix gradually as you did before, but perhaps taking a bit longer over it - say 3 or 4 days on each stage.
    What was the food the breeder used, and that pup started on?
    Of course he could have eaten something in the garden, it might not be food related at all.
     
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  3. Mum2Heidi

    Mum2Heidi PetForums VIP

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    Hi Chris and welcome.
    I feed Eden to my adult dog and would happily use it for a pup. My son also feeds it to his Viszla’s
    We find the Country Cuisine most tummy friendly.
    One observation I would make is the transition period.
    If your pup was fed a single protein food previously you are asking his tum to adapt to more than one new protein.
    He was possibly fed more carbs in his old food - rice/potato which is another change.
    Bearing all this in mind, I would transition him over to Eden very slowly. Possibly starting as a couple of treats and monitor the situation before progressing.
    It’s possible Eden could have caused the upset because his little tum couldn’t adapt as quickly and may be even more sensitive now. If Royal Canine suits him. I’d stick with it for a few weeks at least before trying Eden again.

    He sounds adorable. Would love to see a pic.:D
     
  4. C Hegan

    C Hegan PetForums Newbie

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    Thank you! Yes, I was giving my pup 10%-20% Eden at most, and the rest the food the breeder gave us, which was Versele-Laga opti-life puppy food (I hadn't heard of it before) which he had been eating while with the breeder. I opted for Eden (the breeder had said either it or Orijin would be great).

    I will attempt to go with the vet's Royal Canin in the short term, and gradually start to mix Eden back in in small quantities, as you say. Hopefully it was unrelated, but time will tell.
     
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  5. C Hegan

    C Hegan PetForums Newbie

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    Thank you. I will absolutely try and space it out well. The contents of food differ so widely, and with him being so small/young, it’s bound to cause a little upset. I will post back in with our progress but attached is a picture of him. He’s a wee boss!
     

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  6. Sarah H

    Sarah H Grand Empress of the Universe

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    Keep him on the vet stuff until his poops are normal, only then start to change him over and do the change VERY SLOWLY. Really he should have been on the breeder's food for longer than a week, he hasn't really had time to settle and little things (like a food change) can really upset an already stressed system. Eden is high in protein which can cause issues with some dogs, and it can be hard to find the balance between feeding enough for a growing pup, and not causing loose poo. I agree with the mixing, and if when you start to increase the Eden he starts to get runny poo again, just reduce the Eden again. It may just not be the right food for him, but hopefully with a slower transition his body will start to cope with it better and you can keep him on it as it is good stuff.
     
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  7. Mum2Heidi

    Mum2Heidi PetForums VIP

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    Aww thank you.
    Lovely to see him.
    He’s adorable.
    Hope he stays well and you’re able to reintroduce Eden again (give him a good break from it)
    I’ll look forward to updates
     
  8. tabelmabel

    tabelmabel PetForums VIP

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    Eden is a fantastic food but my dog couldnt tolerate it at all - liquid diarrhoea every time. "Rich" (i believe) is where a food has a very high protein content.

    After lots of experimentation on the 'quality' brands (orijen, canegan etc) it turned out my dog was very itchy and prone to loose stools on all the 80:20 foods that i tried.

    In the end it was Natural Dog Food company food that put an immediate stop to all itching and produced the perfect poop!

    Years later, i switched to vets kitchen for palatibility reasons and both my dogs now have that.


    As suggested, a very gradual switch could help your pup tolerate the new food. Eden is such high quality, they dont need a lot so do beware of over feeding.

    Royal canin is not a good food so not one to be on long term. It is manufactured by Mars (or at least owned by mars) who pump lots of money into getting breeders to start pups on it and vets to recommend it.
     
  9. C Hegan

    C Hegan PetForums Newbie

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    Thank you - that makes sense. I think we may have pushed the Eden too early on top of his "breeder" food. I would still be keen to try and get him back onto Eden - as you say, great quality and I was looking at the Royal Canin stats earlier; it really is a few grades down so, as you say, i dont want him on it for too long - he is very lean, and I doubt the Royal Canin will put be the best for his growth! That being said, important to rebuild his stomach strength, so we will preserver as the Vet outlined, Royal Canine on its own for a week, and then very gradually start to build the Eden back in, in 5 or 10% increments over the space of a couple of weeks. Hopefully that will help the transition.

    Have you any suggestions in terms of timings and quantities for moving across to the Eden? I guess wait until his stools fully form back again to normality.

    Many thanks!
     
  10. tabelmabel

    tabelmabel PetForums VIP

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    If i remember rightly, @lullabydream is knowlegable about these things.

    I didnt manage to successfully convert my dog to eden (he was a pup then too)

    What you could do is maybe take a few bits of eden kibble and have them on your person to dispense as training treats throughout the day. Obvs you would need to make sure you werent dispensing too many for works well done by you puppy but that might be better tolerated than a volume of eden hitting the stomach in one go.

    Yes, be guided by the quantity and quality of the poo.:)
     
  11. Mum2Heidi

    Mum2Heidi PetForums VIP

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    The slower the better.
    I would give him a good few weeks toileting normally first.
    Try a couple of Eden kibbles a day for a few days. If there’s no change, a few more. After a few successful increases as treats, add a couple to his meals(reducing RC as you go). Wait to make sure the increase is successful rather than increasing daily.
    It’s a pain but easy if you take it in your stride and don’t dwell on getting him onto Eden. Heidi has taken 6 weeks to fully transition - especially if I’m a little too keen and have a set back.
    Perhaps get some Bionic Biotics https://www.poochandmutt.co.uk/products/bionic-biotic. Amazon, Pets at Home. It’s easy to get hold of. I’ve been through all sorts with Heidi’s tum and it’s really helped keep output firm. Only downside is the Bionic part ;). Certainly lives up to its name:D.....but lovey to see them Happy and bright.
     
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  12. C Hegan

    C Hegan PetForums Newbie

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    Thanks - I had heard about that from a friend. It sounds like it might be worth trying - I presume you advise moving onto Bionic Biotics very slowly too. Minimal doses, and so on? Will get some ordered. Every little helps.
     
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  13. Mum2Heidi

    Mum2Heidi PetForums VIP

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    No straight in with BB split the dose between meals if you prefer.
    ..think there’s a money back guarantee with it:)
     
  14. Burrowzig

    Burrowzig PetForums VIP

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    And fat, too. Though some manufacturers - I'm thinking of one beginning with P in particular here (described thus for legal reasons) - used to claim that their products were too rich (implying too good for this or other dog) when the indigestibility was more likely down to the added colours, sugars and cheap unnamed cereals; certainly not the protein content which was minimal, at best.
     
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