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Raw feeding - a couple of questions about fish.

Discussion in 'Dog Health and Nutrition' started by Coffee, Oct 21, 2012.


  1. Coffee

    Coffee PetForums VIP

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    Am planning on giving Alfie some fish once or twice a week from this week and while I know it should be oily fish my question is: is raw or tinned better? I'm guessing the answer will be 'raw' but the prices are shocking :eek:

    He's got a LOT of variety going on right now :thumbup1: so the only reason I wish him to have fish is to help his joints a bit (he's often appears stiff and achey on waking and while the vet has told me it's nothing to be concerned about I'm not really happy; he's still a puppy really) so for costings sake I'm leaning towards tinned.

    This brings me to another question: in olive oil, sunflower oil, brine or tomato sauce? :confused: Does it matter?
     
  2. pogo

    pogo PetForums VIP

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    Raw of course is better I tend to go late on and get them from the bargain bin ;)

    Tinned is fine but get it in oil, water or tomato sauce, and never brine! To much salt :)
     
    #2 pogo, Oct 21, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2012
  3. Dogless

    Dogless PetForums VIP

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    If you have a Morrison's near you they often have really cheap fishy bargains in the reduced bit :thumbup:. Unfortunately no Morrison's here :(.

    I give Kilo tinned fish (sardines mainly) in tomato a few times a week and sometimes raw fish from other supermarket reduced sections late in the day!!

    Perhaps salmon oil would help the spotty one?
     
    #3 Dogless, Oct 21, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2012
  4. SixStar

    SixStar Banned

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    As has already been said - raw would be preferable, and good deals can be found at supermarkets near closing time! But there is nothing wrong with tinned if that suits your budget best - opt for ones in spring water, oil or tomato sauce - never brine! However, if you really just looking to give fish for the oil content to help with joints, then a salmon oil supplement can be a good, cost effective alternative.
     
  5. babycham2002

    babycham2002 PetForums VIP

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    yup as others have said really, tinned always in tomato sauce or oil or spring water.

    raw fish, morrisons reduced bit is fab, I get all sorts there, including huge Salmon Heads
    tesco does have bits in their reduced section too, quite often manage to get fish there
     
  6. Coffee

    Coffee PetForums VIP

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    Excellent, thank you all so much :thumbup:

    I'll check out Morrisons and Tesco reduced sections then ;) I admit, I did just look at the prices on Tesco online and was a bit like this: :scared:

    Good to hear that tinned (never in brine ;)) can be a good alternative and I'll definitely look into salmon oil too as an option :thumbup1:

    As I said earlier, I don't think Alfie *needs* fish per se, not for variety reasons anyway, so that's why I didn't want to spend a lot :eek: but the aching joints and stiffness is bothering me and I wanted to do whatever I could to help :( It's not right in a dog of 14 months surely? But the vet was all "oh lots of dogs are like that on waking, a bit stiff and slow to get going, nothing to worry about" and advised I give him cod liver oil if I was worried. However, due to the purine levels in liver (which I'm carefully monitoring now he's eating said liver) I'm wary of giving him more of it in another form.Plus I read something about being careful about giving dogs CLO as they can suffer with vitamin A overload if they're fed raw :confused:
     
  7. SixStar

    SixStar Banned

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    Personally, if he seems to be having issues with his joints at such a young age, I'd be putting him on a joint supplement (whilst keeping an extremely close eye on it, to monitor the situation) - raw bones are naturally very high in glucosamine anyway, so I'd just top him up with something like Yumove, Mobile Bones or Joint Aid to see if that makes any difference. I don't like the thought of a youngster being uncomfortable after walks, it doesn't sound at all right to me :(

    Cod liver oil should be avoided regardless of what diet is fed, because like you say, it's very high in Vitamin A which isn't good in excessive amounts - salmon oil is a much better all rounded, being fantastic for joints, coat, skin, eye and brain health.

    If the joint issues persist after eight weeks on a good supplement, then I'd personally be seeking a second opinion.
     
  8. pogo

    pogo PetForums VIP

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    When i first got chance he always sempt stiff, but i think it was down to living in a tiny crate for 18 months, but i give the boys glucosamine and chondroitin tablets once a week now, but i gave them to chance every 3 days and he (touch wood) has never had the stiffness back but i'll keep giving him the tablets as a preventative anyway.

    I would definitely add a joint aid in like sixstar said though
     
  9. smokeybear

    smokeybear PetForums VIP

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    It does not matter whether you give raw or tinned or if the fish is in brine, as of course you can just drain the brine.

    I use sardines in tomato sauce if I use tinned as that is what my dogs like.

    if your dog is having issues at this age it is unusual.

    Yumove have a new supplemnt out designed for young dogs I would look at this.

    Yumove Young & Active - Lintbells

    Other things I would consider are as follows:

    Bromelain – naturally occurring enzyme sourced from the pineapple plant. It is predominantly found in the stem. Standardized extract is available alone or in combination with other products. It contains numerous anti-inflammatory chemicals and reduces the inflammatory response by alleviating pressure within the joint and allowing a greater ROM (range of movement).

    Cetyl-Myristoleate – extracted from the Kombo nut, found in the commercial product Cetyl – M

    Chondroitin - chondroitin sulphate is an important component of cartilage and the marine form is considered more bio available and powerful than the bovine form

    Cod Liver Oil - contains around three times less Omega 3 EFA (essential fatty acids) than that of FBO. Also, as CLO contains a significant amount of Vitamins A and D pregnant bitches should not be given this supplement; if a dog is being fed a commercial diet, you should check that recommended doses are not being exceeded as of course these contain Vitamins A and D. Raw fed dogs will normally have sufficient of these vitamins via liver and bones.

    Devils Claw - is a traditional herbal product, known as wood spider, a plant native to South Africa and traditionally taken as tea. The main anti-inflammatory agent is harpagoside which helps prevent the conversion of arachidonic acid into pro inflammatory messengers

    Fish Body Oil - is extracted from the flesh of oily fish such as salmon, herrings, sardines, pilchards and mackerel. They are a rich source of EPA and DHA (always ensure that the quantities of both are identified on the labels of FBO).

    Flaxseed Oil - (Linseed Oil) is ALA (alpha-linolenic acid) which the dog has to convert to EPA and DHA, thus it is not such an efficient or effective source of Omega 3 as FBO from either the point of bio-availability or cost.
    .
    Ginger Extract – another traditional product which contains anti inflammatory properties

    Glucosamine – is an amino sugar which is one of the main building blocks of cartilage; the HCl form is purer than the 2KCl form

    Green Lipped Mussel – contains glycosaminoglycans

    Hyaluronic Acid – aids joint lubrication and shock absorption

    MSM - provides a source of sulphur molecules required for the formation of connective tissue

    Rosehip extract – contain antioxidants such as Vitamin C both of which may have an anti inflammatory action.

    Turmeric – contains curcumin, better to take a supplement which contains standardised extract than just the off the shelf powdered spice.

    Vitamin C – essential in the formation of collagen

    Vitamin E – if you give FBO then you should also supplement with this vitamin as the former depletes the body of the latter.
     
  10. SixStar

    SixStar Banned

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    But the fish will absorb a lot of the brine which you can't drain off. If you eat it yourself you can always notice how salty tinned fish in brine tastes, compared to it tinned in water or oil.
     
  11. Coffee

    Coffee PetForums VIP

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    Thank you all again.

    Right, so I've ordered some Fish 4 Dogs salmon oil** and I'm going to have a look at those supplements but I'm liking the sound of the Yumove one.

    SixStar - it's not after exercise that he's stiff, it's only ever after waking up from sleeping :confused: It's not all the time and it's at different times too... sometimes first thing in the morning, sometimes after a nap on the sofa or in his bed. I'd say it's at least 4 or 5 times a week though :(

    Someone else on another forum suggested chicken feet too so I'm going to see if the butchers can get some of those.

    ** if anyone is interested, the F4D oil is £4.00 for 100ml on the website (delivery is free), but they're also doing a doggy goody bag for Dogs For the Disabled containing the 100ml oil along with quite a lot of other goodies :)

    Adult 'Dogs for the Disabled' Goody Bag
     
  12. smokeybear

    smokeybear PetForums VIP

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    I think you will find that fish that come from the sea will have absorbed a lot of brine to begin with......... ;)
     
  13. smokeybear

    smokeybear PetForums VIP

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    Does your dog sleep on a mattress or a round bed/nest?
     
  14. pogo

    pogo PetForums VIP

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    So why add loads of extra salt ;)
     
  15. SixStar

    SixStar Banned

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    Exactly... so why add even more?! :)
     
  16. Coffee

    Coffee PetForums VIP

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    Well, his crate is lined with 3 quilts folded over which is where he sleeps at night and also in the day if we have to leave him (but that's never more than an hour at a time, up to 3 times a week).

    His bed in the living room is a Tuffies Nest but it's huge and he's able to stretch out in it.

    Most of his naps are on the sofa during the day... he tends to take himself to his bed in the evening.

    It's strange. It's not one particular sleeping place that seems to effect the "waking up stiffness"... it's been all of them at any one point :confused:
     
  17. smokeybear

    smokeybear PetForums VIP

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    the salt in sea sourced fish canned in brine if given no more than once or twice a week is not going to be detrimental to a dog. ;)

    I think it is FAR more detrimental to give a dog sea fish in sunflower oil. ;)
     
  18. Coffee

    Coffee PetForums VIP

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  19. SixStar

    SixStar Banned

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  20. Coffee

    Coffee PetForums VIP

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    You're mentioned on their Facebook page too ;)
     
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